The Dozen's Thugs

[Flix]

I've never seen that option!  And I actually have the settings so that I can see dialogue options I'm unqualified for.  Very interesting.  The option must come after you agree to give him the armor, because all other options cause a fight.

[Sannom]

I've never seen that option!  And I actually have the settings so that I can see dialogue options I'm unqualified for.  Very interesting.  The option must come after you agree to give him the armor, because all other options cause a fight.

You obviously have to agree to give him the real soul evaluation before you can ask for the armor. I don't know what the requirements for it are, I play in Expert Mode.

[Flix]

You obviously have to agree to give him the real soul evaluation before you can ask for the armor. I don't know what the requirements for it are, I play in Expert Mode.

 

Not necessarily.  It could have been a single piece of dialogue.  "Give me the armor and you can have the report."  Instead the option is simply [Give report] "Ok here you can have it."  The game presents that decision as meekly giving in to a guy who's threatening you and it feels like betraying the quest giver.  I would have fully expected to have failed the quest choosing that option.

[Oralaina]

 

You obviously have to agree to give him the real soul evaluation before you can ask for the armor. I don't know what the requirements for it are, I play in Expert Mode.

 

Not necessarily.  It could have been a single piece of dialogue.  "Give me the armor and you can have the report."  Instead the option is simply [Give report] "Ok here you can have it."  The game presents that decision as meekly giving in to a guy who's threatening you and it feels like betraying the quest giver.  I would have fully expected to have failed the quest choosing that option.

 

 

Yeah....  took me to this playthrough to go with it - and it turns out it's the right way to do it (other than just killing him for being a jackass....)  It's not real intuitive.

[AnjyBelle]

Guess there's a RES check for that dialog option? I usually play low-RES characters so I would miss it.

No RES check.

 

Give him the armour at the latest, when he says something like "... I ask ONE LAST time..."

Then "...now do the same for Osric...." and finally "...are you really so stuck in your past that you need..." (or the like).

He answers something like "...didn't see it that way..." and gives you the armour.

 

Nevertheless, for the Knights you are now an associate of the Dozens.

Edited October 3, 2015 by AnjyBelle

[Oralaina]

 

Guess there's a RES check for that dialog option? I usually play low-RES characters so I would miss it.

No RES check.

 

Give him the armour at the latest, when he says something like "... I ask ONE LAST time..."

Then "...now do the same for Osric...." and finally "...are you really so stuck in your past that you need..." (or the like).

He answers something like "...didn't see it that way..." and gives you the armour.

 

Nevertheless, for the Knights you are now an associate of the Dozens.

 

 

I'm not.  The knights still gave me their quest line.

[AnjyBelle]

 

 

Guess there's a RES check for that dialog option? I usually play low-RES characters so I would miss it.

No RES check.

 

Give him the armour at the latest, when he says something like "... I ask ONE LAST time..."

Then "...now do the same for Osric...." and finally "...are you really so stuck in your past that you need..." (or the like).

He answers something like "...didn't see it that way..." and gives you the armour.

 

Nevertheless, for the Knights you are now an associate of the Dozens.

 

 

I'm not.  The knights still gave me their quest line.

 

Hmm... that's strange. Taking the armour from Penhelm should be the "point of no return", no matter if you got it peacefully or by force.

 

But perhaps I am wrong, because I never took the armour and then talked to the knight commander. Maybe this way you can still get the quest of the knights, but then your career with the dozens is finished.

 

Anyway, as far as I know it is impossible to get both main quests.

[AndreaColombo]

Taking the armor from Penhelm is not the Dozens' main quest; their main quest involves looting Lle Rhemen.

 

I've always killed Penhelm for the armor and subsequently sided with the Knights of the Crucible.

Edited October 5, 2015 by AndreaColombo

[Flix]

All three factions have an entry quest and then a second quest that locks you in to that faction.  You can do the entry quests for all three factions but can only choose one second quest to lock you in.

 

The Dozens' entry quest is getting Osric's armor.  The faction quest is going to the ruins in Stormwall Gorge, as mentioned.

[Oralaina]

It turns out I really enjoyed forcing Penhelm to look himself in the face and realize he's a jerk.... so from now on he gets his bit of forged self-aggrandizement, and Osric gets his armor back.

 

The only group I was ever likely to select as faction is the Knights; the Dozens are bully boys, and the Domenels are the Mob.  'nuff said.

[jsaving]

I agree that the Dozens don't live up to the Chaotic Good ideal of a citizen-militia banding together to help the populace because its members too often use anarchy to get what they want.  On the other hand, I see the Knights of the Crucible similarly failing to live up to the Lawful Good ideal of a "noble knighthood" because its members too often use rules and social structures to do what they please.  Both have the potential to improve and I think the game goes out of its way not to clearly answer which one should be considered the "more virtuous" faction -- emblematic of PoE's general tendency to have the player make decisions in a world of ambiguity.

[Oralaina]

I agree that the Dozens don't live up to the Chaotic Good ideal of a citizen-militia banding together to help the populace because its members too often use anarchy to get what they want.  On the other hand, I see the Knights of the Crucible similarly failing to live up to the Lawful Good ideal of a "noble knighthood" because its members too often use rules and social structures to do what they please.  Both have the potential to improve and I think the game goes out of its way not to clearly answer which one should be considered the "more virtuous" faction -- emblematic of PoE's general tendency to have the player make decisions in a world of ambiguity.

 

Yeah, this game's great for that!  And really that's why I wind up with the knights.... When I was much younger I WAS CG.  I'm not now.... I'm edging up onto full LG.  And yes, the knights have enough ambiguity to create some angst, but still, they're a better fit for me than the other options.

 

[i should enter a caveat:  while I think most people roleplay something they may not come anywhere close to being, for me RP is all about being ME in some other world.  I've never once since the mid-70s been able to go totally against myself.  So back then, I ran CG half-elf mages, rangers, etc.  And now, I run LG rangers and so on.]

[FlintlockJazz]

^ interesting! Didn't think you could get the armor surrendering the evidence.

Yep, as others have said you have to surrender the evidence first and then you can get him to give it up, didn't realise so many people didn't know it though.

 

It turns out I really enjoyed forcing Penhelm to look himself in the face and realize he's a jerk.... so from now on he gets his bit of forged self-aggrandizement, and Osric gets his armor back.

 

The only group I was ever likely to select as faction is the Knights; the Dozens are bully boys, and the Domenels are the Mob.  'nuff said.

Yeah, I think a lot of his issues stem from his soul heritage and desire to get away/hide it due to fear of being judged for it and a jealousy coming from it due to a perception that others are getting it easy due to family lines strangely enough.

 

 

^ interesting! Didn't think you could get the armor surrendering the evidence.

If I remember right, you call him out on his hipocrisy, not wanting to see his soul's "record" get in the hands of his superior officers on account that he isn't that person anymore, but still clinging to an ancient piece of armor that isn't even his because of the prestige associated with it.

 

I rather think though that in this game a person's past souls MIGHT be a consideration....

It's obviously a consideration for some people, hence the quest. But even the cipher tasked with the soul-reading find the Crucicle Knight's obsession with the "purity" of their officer's souls to be ridiculous.

 

Yeah, I think there is a lot of things people believe in that the game shows to be wrong or not quite right.  It appears that the Crucible Knights treat 'soul heritage' the same way real world nobility treated noble bloodlines, with about the same effect.  Some may have 

 

 

I agree that the Dozens don't live up to the Chaotic Good ideal of a citizen-militia banding together to help the populace because its members too often use anarchy to get what they want.  On the other hand, I see the Knights of the Crucible similarly failing to live up to the Lawful Good ideal of a "noble knighthood" because its members too often use rules and social structures to do what they please.  Both have the potential to improve and I think the game goes out of its way not to clearly answer which one should be considered the "more virtuous" faction -- emblematic of PoE's general tendency to have the player make decisions in a world of ambiguity.

 

Yeah, this game's great for that!  And really that's why I wind up with the knights.... When I was much younger I WAS CG.  I'm not now.... I'm edging up onto full LG.  And yes, the knights have enough ambiguity to create some angst, but still, they're a better fit for me than the other options.

 

[i should enter a caveat:  while I think most people roleplay something they may not come anywhere close to being, for me RP is all about being ME in some other world.  I've never once since the mid-70s been able to go totally against myself.  So back then, I ran CG half-elf mages, rangers, etc.  And now, I run LG rangers and so on.]

 

I'm similar, though I find I can play characters that are fundamentally different from me in computer RPGs if I specifically make them clearly different from me and then treat them as a separate character from me rather than me trying to be them.  Hence why my more ruthless characters tend to be females of the more non-human of the available race.