So about my rogue, talents and such.

[Cacophonix]

I have her using an Arbalest but I also will quickly switch to stilettos if she gets closed on. I don't mind melee-ing with her but I got soldier for the Arbalest. 

 

I wanted her a bit rounded out and did not min max at all.

 

Str 16

Dex 17

Con 10

Perception 10 or 12 (cant remember ill look up later.)

Intellect 12

Resolve 10

 

I don't have any stats below 10. 

 

So far I got Soldier, and shadowing beyond. I did not get backstab as I have zero luck trying to get into proper position for it to work. 

 

Is the skill 'gunner' worth getting if I am gonig to keep using an arbalest? 

 

Should I move over to an Arquebus?

 

Thanks much...

 

I know there are a ton of posts on Rogues already. The community is awesome for putting up with the endless posts on the same topic. 

[rheingold]

Re the stats, rogues don't really require high might, or at least that's true with melee rogues, could be different with ranged, maybe some one with experience could chime in.

I also don't like lowering scores below 10. The latest, and most fun version had M10, Con 10, Dex 18, P 15, Int 10 and Res 15, Though I may be out by a point or two, if there is a mistake resolve would be 14.

It's really nice if you have the points available to have some resolve for conversation, role playing and some small deflection. Perception gives interrupts and accuracy. To be honest you could even drop dexterity down to 16 and not make much of a difference to dps. Which would free up 2 more points. Guns and arbalests are really slow, I'd imagine you definitely would want gunner. There is an arbalest in the first town which has a 20 percent speed increase. It's quite expensive but well worth it. Another underrated option are crossbows, they do more damage than bows and fire quicker than guns.

Personally if I play a rogue I'd play melee, if I want an archer type character I'd go ranger especially with the pet buffs and new sneak attack talent.

[Nobear]

I think rheingold's advice is reasonable, I'd just like to elaborate on what he said about rogues not requiring high might. It helps to understand the rationale behind that thinking, which is that all damage bonuses in PoE are additive, not multiplicative, including Might and even crit bonuses. In other games, a crit might really do 1.5X or 2X damage, but in PoE, it will just add 50% (or 100% with certain weapon types). So if you had 10 Might and no other bonuses at all (which is literally impossible with a rogue, as long as you qualify for Sneak Attack), a crit would do 1.5X damage, and might would raise your damage as much as you'd assume it would.

 

However, as you add 50% (Sneak Attack) + 100% (Deathblows) + 15-45% (weapon quality enchant) + 25% (Blinding or Crippling Strike) + possibly other sources like talents or crit "multipliers" that are actually additive, Might becomes an increasingly small % of your total damage. That's why, while Might will still do something for a rogue, you could end up better off leaving Might and Int at 10 and putting more in Per and/or Dex instead. That is true, even if you are against dropping stats below 10 for RP reasons.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Nobear

[Cacophonix]

Yes, Hold WALL, I am familiar with it. its like 4790 in coin which is not impossible to obtain. I have been told it is still not fixed and fires at the same rate as other arbalests. If it did what it claims then the price is worth it. Now, will that stack with Gunner?

[lameover]

Arbalests stack with gunner.

I advice you to get more INT(more abilities duration) or PER(more accuracy) for dialogues.

[Teioh_White]

Dex and Perception are the key abilites. Dex, because it gets better the more modifers you can add together. And no adds up mods like a Rogue, not even close. Perception is next, as no matter how big the mod, you still need to hit. Acc beyond +15 the mobs Defelection isn't as useful for Rogues as other classes, because, as above, the extra mod's for crit aren't quite as impressive for Rogues. But it's still nice, and Acc/Deflection will bounce up and down from fight to fight and even within the same fight, so you'll want to stack it.

 

I'd also definitely dump Int. Rogues per encounter abilites will be a tiny part of what they do past the early game, and it's not worth wasting points to midly extend a debuff that some caster and you group can toss on the entire team anyways. It also doesn't matter much for the DoT effect from Rogues attacks, as things won't really be in a position to live long enough for an extended DoT to make any impact.

 

After that, you're left with Might, Con, and Resolve. Mights good early on, as starting with it close to cap can give a good +.3 to your base 1.5 mod, which is an impressive boost. Later on though, when you're closer to a 3.0 mod, that extra .3 isn't quite as impressive, and you might like that +50% health bonus from putting those points into Con instead.

 

Resolve, i'm not a fan of. I like Con, as it helps from all kinds of damage, not just attacks and will saves, and will keep you up when a wizard drops a Lance on you or something, where Defelection attacks you can self manage more easily. I wouldn't be shy about taking points away from this to pump either Might or Con.

[KDubya]

Dex and Perception are the key abilites. Dex, because it gets better the more modifers you can add together. And no adds up mods like a Rogue, not even close. Perception is next, as no matter how big the mod, you still need to hit. Acc beyond +15 the mobs Defelection isn't as useful for Rogues as other classes, because, as above, the extra mod's for crit aren't quite as impressive for Rogues. But it's still nice, and Acc/Deflection will bounce up and down from fight to fight and even within the same fight, so you'll want to stack it.

 

I'd also definitely dump Int. Rogues per encounter abilites will be a tiny part of what they do past the early game, and it's not worth wasting points to midly extend a debuff that some caster and you group can toss on the entire team anyways. It also doesn't matter much for the DoT effect from Rogues attacks, as things won't really be in a position to live long enough for an extended DoT to make any impact.

 

After that, you're left with Might, Con, and Resolve. Mights good early on, as starting with it close to cap can give a good +.3 to your base 1.5 mod, which is an impressive boost. Later on though, when you're closer to a 3.0 mod, that extra .3 isn't quite as impressive, and you might like that +50% health bonus from putting those points into Con instead.

 

Resolve, i'm not a fan of. I like Con, as it helps from all kinds of damage, not just attacks and will saves, and will keep you up when a wizard drops a Lance on you or something, where Defelection attacks you can self manage more easily. I wouldn't be shy about taking points away from this to pump either Might or Con.

 

 

If you dump intellect its nice to add the same number into your resolve just to keep the will save neutral. Dialogue, deflection and concentration aren't bad either. That still leaves you with 10s in the other four stats with 18 points to spread.

 

I totally agree with the importance of dex and perception. 10 Might, 10 con, 19 dex, 18 per, 3 int and 18 resolve works well. Less damage at the start but once you start stacking the damage modifiers you won't notice the Might.

[Tigranes]

Gunner is a no-brainer for anybody that uses the relevant weapons (which includes arbalests) a lot. 

 

I'd say melee rogues are very fun and easily outstrip ranged rogues in capability, but if you are having fun with your ranged rogue there's no reason to change that. 

[KDubya]

If you are just going to shoot one time at the start of combat for the free sneak attack and then swap to melee you can skip Gunner as you won't be reloading.

[Killyox]

Tbh even Dex is overrated.

 

When you get 2 weapons with 20% attack speed, gloves with 15% attack speed, DW style with +20% attack speed and refine each weapon with durgan steel for another +15% attack speed per weapon and refine armor with durgan steel (-15% penalty to recovery from armor) then you're a machine gun even with 8-10 dex.

 

Look at Devil of Caroc. She has 10 Dex I use her with 1h + shield and she absolutely destroys enemies (100 dmg per hit) while having almost 100 deflection atm and ~120 reflex (and 50% grazes vs ref are misses due to talent) and ~90 in other stats.

 

She's very durable and very damaging. Swashbuckler style.

 

If you want ranged rogue better make a ranger and invest in pet which later on does 70-100 hits too

 

Tried DW and 1h and 1h + s styles for rogue and thus far in overall usability for POTD i prefer 1h+s swashbuckler style. Damaging and tough.

 

Might for rogue scales a lot better than Dex later on  due to abundance of attack speed modifier from many sources thus devaluing ever next attack speed increase.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Killyox

[Killyox]

Dex and Perception are the key abilites. Dex, because it gets better the more modifers you can add together. And no adds up mods like a Rogue, not even close. Perception is next, as no matter how big the mod, you still need to hit. Acc beyond +15 the mobs Defelection isn't as useful for Rogues as other classes, because, as above, the extra mod's for crit aren't quite as impressive for Rogues. But it's still nice, and Acc/Deflection will bounce up and down from fight to fight and even within the same fight, so you'll want to stack it.

 

I'd also definitely dump Int. Rogues per encounter abilites will be a tiny part of what they do past the early game, and it's not worth wasting points to midly extend a debuff that some caster and you group can toss on the entire team anyways. It also doesn't matter much for the DoT effect from Rogues attacks, as things won't really be in a position to live long enough for an extended DoT to make any impact.

 

After that, you're left with Might, Con, and Resolve. Mights good early on, as starting with it close to cap can give a good +.3 to your base 1.5 mod, which is an impressive boost. Later on though, when you're closer to a 3.0 mod, that extra .3 isn't quite as impressive, and you might like that +50% health bonus from putting those points into Con instead.

 

Resolve, i'm not a fan of. I like Con, as it helps from all kinds of damage, not just attacks and will saves, and will keep you up when a wizard drops a Lance on you or something, where Defelection attacks you can self manage more easily. I wouldn't be shy about taking points away from this to pump either Might or Con.

Dumping int is fine if you never plan on using scrolls due to Lore. If anyone remotely wants to use scrolls then 10 is a minimum for example. Less decreased duration and aoe. 

 

It's cool having rogue with great single target + aoe. Especially with stuff like paralyze that goes nicely with rogue and his passives (2 qualifying effects with that talent that raises sneak attack to 100%)

[Cacophonix]

Ok, so I will likely just shoot at start of combat for the initial shot. BUT I do like to get in there a melee a bit. 

 

With that said I have her in a 'Fine robe' for speed and using Fine Dagger/Fine Stiletto as dual wield. She is not yet 5th level and this is a HIRELING which I added early on myself to the custom group i am playing. My toon is a pally/tank. 

 

Does the community have a preference on melee weaps for a rogue, armor and possible talent direction? I would prefer to stand off and shoot but I dont mind meleeing it up when needed. 

 

One last question. 

 

is the Ranger Sagini worth keeping in the party and using her instead of either a cypher or this rogue?

[rheingold]

Well I'm biased, I like Rangers. But they are really good. As long as you remember to take some of the animal talents for the pet. To be honest unless you are playing Potd take the characters you want. Just be aware that to benefit from the class there is a substantial amount of micro managing the pet. But as I said earlier, if you want an archer go ranger, if you want a rogue go melee. Or alternatively just play what and whom you want. The game is easy enough.

[Nobear]

Does the community have a preference on melee weaps for a rogue, armor and possible talent direction? I would prefer to stand off and shoot but I dont mind meleeing it up when needed. 

 

One last question. 

 

is the Ranger Sagini worth keeping in the party and using her instead of either a cypher or this rogue?

 

I'm glad you're enjoying the game. Now, you can often find answers to related (or sometimes the same) questions by searching/browsing these forums. Here is, in fact, someone else who asked for melee/ranged rogue advice the same day you did. I hope you find some of the suggestions there helpful. I don't mean to be critical, just to point out the resources that are at your disposal here.

 

Also, rangers got buffed more than most classes did in 2.0, so they went from being in a place most players considered weak, to a place many players consider to make them a valuable team member. These days, I really don't think there's a clear winner between a ranger and rogue. They can both fulfill similar roles. Especially below PoTD, you might find them pretty well balanced with respect to each other, and you should play whichever you enjoy more.

 

Edit: A cipher is a bit harder to compare a rogue to. I personally find it hard to imagine doing without a cipher because I like their abilities so much and find them unique. I love their combination of damage and CC with their own personal twist. Wizards can CC well too, but if you spec Aloth as mostly a Minor Blights build (as I saw you considering in another thread), he can still throw down a Slicken or something here and there, but a cipher may end up being the more reliable CC in your party if you want Aloth to focus on his Minor Blights. I would personally make the choice between the rogue and ranger, and keep the cipher either way. That's my take.

 

Cheers!

Edited September 18, 2015 by Nobear