PotD Min/Max Necessary?

[rkade8583]

I like roleplaying. I also like roguelikes. I know I'll never be able to do the triple crown without min/maxing but is PotD possible with a roleplayed character (as opposed to min/max?)

 

I want to be a smart, perceptive, and strong of will dwarf fighter/barbarian tank. Considering the Defender nerfs, I don't even know if it's viable anymore.

 

Anywho, I figure you guys know your stuff so I thought I'd ask for advice here.

[PIP-Clownboy]

You never needed defender to beat POTD. 

 

Barb tank is perfectly viable just don't dump con to 3 like a tard. 

Edited August 27, 2015 by PIP-Clownboy

[rkade8583]

How would you tank up a barbarian though?

[Starwars]

I played through on PotD before 2.0, and at that time I definitely didn't need to min-max. Can't remember my character but it was not some uber-build, and I ended up switching around the companions a lot (didn't go with a set party). Didn't have much problems even so.

[Killyox]

How would you tank up a barbarian though?

 

You don't need to min max for POTD, you don't even need a tank. My frontline atm: Barb with 2H, Rogue, Druid(using frontals & spirit form) I got eder and durance (yeah changed min maxed priest to durance for lols :D). Eder is 'just there' pretty much as a body blocker. Gonna scrap rogue to get ranger I think because too many dudes run into melee

 

Basically PC Mage, NPC Barb, NPC rogue, NPC druid, Durance, Eder,  Rogue and Eder get a boot as soon as I get 2 new White March companions

 

Not min maxing. Not using food really, selling 95% of the potions I get.

 

Barb is fine with his 1 per encounter heal + survival and HOT potions. Later on I will give him bandage for 40% health regen since it's most likely that he will run out of health before endurance even with 18 con.

 

 

You don't even need +engagement talents at all. Hobble, Prone, Stun, bodyblocking bottleneck passages and so on is a pretty good tactic. I often bodyblock preventing new ai from getting to my squishies, drop Curse of Blindness and all hell starts lose. Those 2 Skuldr Kings in the first dungeon were faceroll XD

Edited August 27, 2015 by Killyox

[rkade8583]

That's good to hear. In Wasteland 2, I had no choice but to min/max and I hate it. My first character in any RPG that allows it is always an exaggerated version of myself.

 

Since my first question got answered, I'll ask another one: Do I have to min/max to do a solo PotD run? If not, I might actually try for the triple crown. It'd be a nice achievement.

[Killyox]

That's good to hear. In Wasteland 2, I had no choice but to min/max and I hate it. My first character in any RPG that allows it is always an exaggerated version of myself.

 

Since my first question got answered, I'll ask another one: Do I have to min/max to do a solo PotD run? If not, I might actually try for the triple crown. It'd be a nice achievement.

 

You don't have to min max in WL2 either. I beat the game and I didn't min/max. I did make good characters covering most of the areas but lets say it was just a bit below min/maxing

[rkade8583]

It's a psychological thing. I KNOW I'm more coordinated, aware, strong, fast, smart, and charming than a mere 3! Even if they just started everything at 4 and let us move our stats around, you know? As an aside, I can't wait for the DCut in Oct.

 

Anyway, I'm getting off topic.

[Killyox]

Part of the reason I don't min max. I don't like chars wit 2 stats dumped to get 2 others high. Breaks my immersion. I cover these deficiencies by better planning during fights. My problem during first walkthrough (on hard) was that the game was too easy. So on POTD I refrain from minmaxing to not make it too easy.

 

Will be funny to see Fallout 4 when you can start with stats ~2-3 in all on a scale 1-10 XD

[rkade8583]

 

 

Will be funny to see Fallout 4 when you can start with stats ~2-3 in all on a scale 1-10 XD

Indeed.

 

So I've decided to do two runs: a barbarian on PotD to learn the game and the same barbarian to do a triple-crown attempt. His stats are all 14s except for 8 in dex (cause he's a dwarf.) The story, such as it is in my head, is that he was a battlerager (or equivalent) in Old Valia but is done with that now (hint: no he's not) and wants to settle down. Being in the military, he has received training (just got level 2 and the fighter's passive) but beyond that, I have no clue where I should go with him on the first or second playthrough. I'm thinking of getting the soldier weapon kit so he can actually hit things. I'm also thinking heaviest armor, biggest shield, a warhammer, and a pike.

 

Any thoughts thusfar?

[gkathellar]

Being good at the game is far more important than min-maxing on PotD, because the real difficulty increase comes from the size and composition of enemy mobs, not from the +10 to enemy accuracy and defenses. Use your crowd-control intelligently, don't actively gimp your builds, and keep your guard up. You'll be fine.

 

The defender nerf hurts sword-and-board fighters a lot, but they're still going to be viable. Just, you know, don't take Defender because it's terrible now.

 

Frankly, there are only a few classes that can dump any stat entirely without suffering for it. Rogues and some fighters and monks can drop Int with 0 consequences - that's the only time I'd actually recommend dumping anything. Second-rank barbarians can theoretically dump Resolve. Certain ranged attackers can do alright without any Con or Res, but I feel that it really just makes your life difficult.

 

So I've decided to do two runs: a barbarian on PotD to learn the game and the same barbarian to do a triple-crown attempt. His stats are all 14s except for 8 in dex (cause he's a dwarf.)

 

That'll be perfectly functional for a normal playthrough, although you're almost certainly going to need to adjust it for the triple crown. Personally, I'd drop Resolve and pump up Might, Int and Dex a little.

 

Soldier is a great choice for barbarians in the base game, because it helps them use two weapons that synergize really well with Carnage: Tidefall, a greatsword that drains HP and does damage over time, and Tall Grass, a pike that knocks enemies prone on a critical hit. Tidefall's Drain+Carnage helps offset the barbarian tendency to take damage by sponging it from the whole enemy mob, while Tall Grass turns your base attack into an AoE debuff. I dunno if it's still the best option in White March.

Edited August 27, 2015 by gkathellar

[rkade8583]

Neato! I didn't gimp myself. Seriously, I truly loathe games where you have to min/max. I like the idea of my dwarf swinging a big hunk of leeching metal around too. Nothing says battlerager like a big ol' hunk of metal.

 

Someday I'll play D&D with friends... Someday.

[Killyox]

Meh defender ;p my squishies all got hatchet + shield combo as their secondary weapon when they are in pinch and need deflection boost XD buys them a couple of seconds for other to do their CC or just let them cast some defensive spells.

[rkade8583]

Got to Gilded Vale. Barbarians can not hit ANYTHING! What is that about? Maybe I'm doing it wrong but I had to use a rapier to make it through the forest. Should I have taken weapons (or sword+board) training instead of the minute endurance regen? It's early enough that I can pound out a restart in short order.

[Killyox]

What's your perception and accuracy? and talents? My barb started slow but lvl 3+ he started rolling. Also be sure to BLIND, PRONE etc enemies.

 

I got my barb Soldier proficiency first (since it affects normals + carnage) and then getting +carnage then some 2h style.

 

Also priests Per Encounter skill (forgot the name) with talent gives +5 acc for ~20s so that's another thing to use. 

 

THEN after you get +6 acc from proficiency, THEN take endurance regen imo. Worked for me.

 

Wizard's lv 2 AoE blindness and lv 1 chill fog or w/e giving blind helps attackers a lot. Support your muscle with debuffs. 

 

There is also Respec option. Lower lvl = less gold paid.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Killyox

[rkade8583]

Right, I forgot about that. Thanks, you saved me an hour of backtrack.

[Nobear]

I consider myself to be an average player skill-wise. I've beaten the game on a completionist run pre-2.0 with a full party of companions and only my main (a paladin tank) min-maxed. After Act 1, there were only a small handful of fights that were truly challenging to me in the sense that I had to reload several times before beating them, or even come back later.

 

I tried soloing PoTD on Expert mode (but not Trial of Iron) relatively briefly after that, also pre-2.0, and found it to be a much steeper jump in difficulty than going from Hard to PoTD. I did try to optimize my stats, although in some cases min-maxing may not be the best way to do that when you're soloing. I tried a melee wizard and a melee cipher. In general, I found the melee wizard to be more powerful and tanky (despite less tanky stats). On both characters, I hit a brick wall when trying to take the stronghold toward the end of Act 1, despite completing as many other areas as I could first. On the cipher, I saved up enough gold to buy a summon figurine from the blacksmith in Gilded Vale, and I still couldn't beat the fight with all the phantoms in the stronghold. I think there's a decent chance I could have beat it on my wizard if I'd acquired the same figurine with her, but I'm by no means certain.

 

In general, in a solo PoTD run, I found myself needing to bust out all the guns I had at my disposal, including stacking multiple food buffs. IDK if they still stack in 2.0, but if they do, only similar effects will suppress each other, meaning you can boost multiple stats by eating multiple types of food.

 

I have no reason to doubt that other more skilled players than myself have gotten through Act 1 soloing without cheating, and without playing a rogue who can vanish and skip that really difficult fight toward the end of Act 1. But, TCS is considered the greatest challenge in the game for a reason. There's no shame in having your first solo run be non Trial of Iron, or Hard instead of PoTD, to practice. But if you're looking for the biggest challenge, keep at it, have fun, and good luck!

Edited August 29, 2015 by Nobear