Fighting the Engine

[Sidney]

I feel like a lot of my combat woes are based on the engine at this point. I've shifted my party to a 3 melee/ 3 missile setup (plus a fox) because having more melee characters causes more problems than I can overcome because of positioning. Even at that I can tell that a lot of time, even with pausing all the time, my melee types aren't doing as much as they could because they are blocked out of their target. All too many times it feels like there is room for 3 but they have to be just so and the baddies have to cooperate and not cross cross or anything like that and mess up the path finding to themselves. I also seem to draw a lot of disengage attacks because of this so even micro-managing the party isn't a magic bucket.

 

I've resorted to more of a defensive posture where I let them come to me which seems to be less confusing than a meeting engagement which turns into a scrum very quickly.

 

How to other people manage positioning and movement.

[AndreaColombo]

I know this is likely not the answer you are looking for, but I'll drop it anyway because it worked so well for me: I disabled engagement (as well as that super-duper dumb recovery penalty while moving) with the IE Mod.

[Nobear]

I know this is likely not the answer you are looking for, but I'll drop it anyway because it worked so well for me: I disabled engagement (as well as that super-duper dumb recovery penalty while moving) with the IE Mod.

 

To me, reloading slower while moving makes RP sense, and I tend to like mechanics that add to tactical considerations as long as they make RP sense. So if you were really agile and really good at multitasking, I guess you could theoretically reload a small weapon just as fast while running, but something like an arquebus or arbalest? If they wanted to make it totally realistic you wouldn't be able to reload these while moving at all.

 

Disengagement is something from D&D (attacks of opportunity), which I think makes a little bit less sense. Would you really be able to instantly attack no matter where you were in your current swing, just because an enemy is leaving and presumably has his back to you? I don't think so. I think, in reality, an enemy stepping away would only present a good opportunity to strike if he actually has his back to you, and if he isn't moving away so quickly that your blow wouldn't end up reaching him.

 

To the OP : First off I only have my two tanks and the rest of my party is ranged, so I less often have that chokepoint issue. For you, I'd recommend giving at least one of your melee either a reach or ranged weapon to switch to for these situations. Even if it's not their specialty, they could still do a good portion of their normal DPS when bottlenecked.

 

I actually have decent stealth on my party, so I can normally get into pretty good pre-combat positioning. Some people prefer letting the enemies come, and some of these players actually start with an "alpha strike," meaning a shot with a ranged weapon before they switch to melee, while they wait for the enemy to come. This is too much micro for me personally, but to each his own.

 

Now, when I see a tight corner ahead and I can plan properly, I will definitely set a trap and lure the enemies out, if I'd be unable to get my whole party through the door before being detected. Some people complain about the small range of traps, but the trick is to set one right at the side of the doorway or chokepoint which is the corner they will be rounding. It helps if at least your mechanic also has a few points in stealth for this. Even better if you give everyone a few in stealth, maybe more for your frontliners. This is quite doable. You can get by with just 3 Athletics for everyone, and Survival is pretty weak, so it's certainly feasible for each character to get 10 Lore or Mechanics and a few points in Stealth as well.

[Nakia]

Nobear makes a lot of sense to me.  I am an armchair student of HEMA and doubt very much that one could reload a arquebus or arbalest while moving.  I tried to find a video showing disengagement tactics but could only find one when fencing with a rapier or foil.  However sword fighting is very intricate and not just a matter of chop and bash.  The fighter is trained to study the opponent and be prepared for weird and unexpected moves.  Actual mortal combat is a matter of kill or disable the other guy before he can kill or disable you.   ​   I think it might be possible for an experienced fighter to get in an attack of opportunity if an opponent tries to flee.  It all depends on the roll of the dice I guess.

[gkathellar]

I think it might be possible for an experienced fighter to get in an attack of opportunity if an opponent tries to flee. It all depends on the roll of the dice I guess.[/size]

PoE's combat is a rough approximation at best. It is not a simulation and should not attempt to be. That said, there's no real way to get away from an opponent quickly without one of you lowering your guard. As has been said by wiser men than me: turning to run in a sword fight only means you'll die from wounds to your back.

[Nakia]

Actually PoE tends to surprise me as to accuracy.  I have checked out their base weapons before enhancements and found them accurate.   Armour is a little more iffy but I think that is partly if not mainly due to programming and computer limitations.  Headgear is the only thing I have found to be poor due to the fact that the first thing any combat fighter invests in is head gear not just melee fighters but anyone going into combat the second thing is hand protection for sword fighters.

 

I did question their staff fighting animations and checked it out to find they were correct and I was wrong.  Afraid I fell for the Hollywood depictions and I should know better.     Never fall for what Hollywood thinks is right because it probably isn't.

 

Anyway as gkathellar says combat in fantasy land is only an approximation.  The argument regarding engagement and disengagement will continue.  I am eagerly awaiting the new AI scripts.  I am really curious as to how they, OE devs, handle them.