Spells Miss too much.

[alexis13]

Its really an issue tbh, Like BG the whole point of a mage was sure you couldnt do near as much between ur spell casts or if u were out.

 

But if u did have them you could at least rely on it so satisfyingly for a last hit, if you spend AGES auto attacking and you were just like "OK ENOUGH" *MAGIC MISSILE*! or *FIREBALL* and then you're like "**** THANK GOD JESUS JUST GET HIT ALREADY"
 

Now you have less a lot casts per day, sure you get some encounter but thats really late, you arn't free to rest, you need to rest more often, and your ****ing spells can miss 3 times in a row!

 

GOD DAMNIT! just enough with the spell misses! can't magic just be like a sure thing? its seriously god damn tedious.

[Gfted1]

Iirc, spells are just like any other attack in PoE. If you increase your Accuracy or decrease the opponent Deflection, you should see better results.

[MalVeauX]

Hrm,

 

I never noticed spells missing a ton. They're not auto-hit. But you'll notice spells have +accuracy bonuses, and they tell you what they're targeting (Deflection, Reflex, Will, Fortitude, etc). Pay attention to the opponent's defenses (bestiary, pause while fighting and hover the opponent). It's pretty simple, but using a spell that targets Fortitude or Deflection against something with really high Deflection & Fortitude scores, but has a low Reflex, is your fault, not the game's. Attack their lowest defense score.

 

Very best,

[Nobear]

Hrm,

 

I never noticed spells missing a ton. They're not auto-hit. But you'll notice spells have +accuracy bonuses, and they tell you what they're targeting (Deflection, Reflex, Will, Fortitude, etc). Pay attention to the opponent's defenses (bestiary, pause while fighting and hover the opponent). It's pretty simple, but using a spell that targets Fortitude or Deflection against something with really high Deflection & Fortitude scores, but has a low Reflex, is your fault, not the game's. Attack their lowest defense score.

 

Very best,

 

 

Right, and then you have spells like Miasma of Dull-Mindedness (mage), Painful Interdiction (priest) and Tanglefoot and Nature's Mark (druid) that all stack for some really major debuffs. On my max level mage, I usually open with the crit-boosting self buff that lasts a long time, followed by Eldritch Aim, and then my CC is going to be pretty effective, especially since my druid has been debuffing the enemy in the meantime. Oh, my cipher opens with Amplified Wave to give my mage and druid time to start shining with their CCs and AoE nukes.

 

This game is supposed to be tactical. If you want a simpler game, there are plenty of those out there. If you want to be rewarded for thinking strategically, that's one of the things PoE was designed to do.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Nobear

[gkathellar]

OP clearly never tried to land a spell that was negated with a saving throw at high levels in BG2. Against level 15+ enemies, the odds of a successful save were somewhere between 90% to 100% unless you cast 2-3 debuffs first. That was missing too much.

[Lord_Mord]

 

OP clearly never tried to land a spell that was negated with a saving throw at high levels in BG2. Against level 15+ enemies, the odds of a successful save were somewhere between 90% to 100% unless you cast 2-3 debuffs first. That was missing too much.

 

That was fun.

[gkathellar]

 

 

OP clearly never tried to land a spell that was negated with a saving throw at high levels in BG2. Against level 15+ enemies, the odds of a successful save were somewhere between 90% to 100% unless you cast 2-3 debuffs first. That was missing too much.

 

That was fun.

 

In boss fights, sure. Less so in the more trivial encounters.

 

Mind, BG2's mechanics allowed you to settle those encounters mostly with auto-attacking, so that was a different beast. But the comparison stands - direct damage spells may sometimes miss in PoE, but on the other hand, non-damaging spells sometimes hit.

[alexis13]

OP clearly never tried to land a spell that was negated with a saving throw at high levels in BG2. Against level 15+ enemies, the odds of a successful save were somewhere between 90% to 100% unless you cast 2-3 debuffs first. That was missing too much.

I beat Demagorgorgon on hard mode solo dude.... with my warrior/mage.

 

I'm not talking about god like monsters, I'm talking about like 3 wolves with like 10-20% hp left and u just need to finish them off but ur pretty low but it should be cool.

 

Then oops fan of flame misses 3 times and then ur low hp and die...

 

I don't want to spend my extremely limited spells just debuffing to hit with normal spells that may just get healed through by an enemy priest/mage/warrior potion.

[alexis13]

 

Hrm,

 

I never noticed spells missing a ton. They're not auto-hit. But you'll notice spells have +accuracy bonuses, and they tell you what they're targeting (Deflection, Reflex, Will, Fortitude, etc). Pay attention to the opponent's defenses (bestiary, pause while fighting and hover the opponent). It's pretty simple, but using a spell that targets Fortitude or Deflection against something with really high Deflection & Fortitude scores, but has a low Reflex, is your fault, not the game's. Attack their lowest defense score.

 

Very best,

 

 

Right, and then you have spells like Miasma of Dull-Mindedness (mage), Painful Interdiction (priest) and Tanglefoot and Nature's Mark (druid) that all stack for some really major debuffs. On my max level mage, I usually open with the crit-boosting self buff that lasts a long time, followed by Eldritch Aim, and then my CC is going to be pretty effective, especially since my druid has been debuffing the enemy in the meantime. Oh, my cipher opens with Amplified Wave to give my mage and druid time to start shining with their CCs and AoE nukes.

 

This game is supposed to be tactical. If you want a simpler game, there are plenty of those out there. If you want to be rewarded for thinking strategically, that's one of the things PoE was designed to do.

 

I play dark souls/dark souls 2 +7/ bg1/2 on hard mode (pretty much always solo or with one partner) aswell as nwn2 and this and have been playing the witcher 3 on death march.

 

Do I look like I'm looking for a simple easy game? just because I'm asking for class balance doesn't mean I want it easy, about 70-80% of people have rated wizards as underwhelming or underpowered.

 

I just beat the drake and all his high priests in the place below the keep on hard/expert mode with 4 party memebers each at level 4-5 and I beat raedric at level 4 SOLO on hard after like 7ish tries, when people are complaining about him being impossible with a party of 6.

 

I'm not saying u shouldn't have to debuff enemies, but you had to do that too in BG2 and spells still always hit, you SHOULDN'T have to debuff a couple of mundune wolves/lions/bandits, its just ****ing annoying and a waste of spells.

[gkathellar]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we get it, you're SO HARDCORE

 

If your point is that trivial fights are both too common and consume too much in the way of resources at early levels, then I agree (although not without reservations). But that's a more systemic problem that really has very little to do with spells using the same to-hit math as normal attacks. Frankly, I'm not sure it's a problem that can be resolved at all without dramatic changes to the pacing and structure of the game.

 

"Magic isn't powerful enough" really isn't a legitimate claim about PoE, though. Perhaps "mook defenses are too high" is one, but I don't personally agree.

[Nobear]

I play dark souls/dark souls 2 +7/ bg1/2 on hard mode (pretty much always solo or with one partner) aswell as nwn2 and this and have been playing the witcher 3 on death march.

 

Do I look like I'm looking for a simple easy game? just because I'm asking for class balance doesn't mean I want it easy, about 70-80% of people have rated wizards as underwhelming or underpowered.

 

I just beat the drake and all his high priests in the place below the keep on hard/expert mode with 4 party memebers each at level 4-5 and I beat raedric at level 4 SOLO on hard after like 7ish tries, when people are complaining about him being impossible with a party of 6.

 

I'm not saying u shouldn't have to debuff enemies, but you had to do that too in BG2 and spells still always hit, you SHOULDN'T have to debuff a couple of mundune wolves/lions/bandits, its just ****ing annoying and a waste of spells.

 

So you're complaining because you chose to power through the game, being much lower level than the average player would against a given enemy, and your spells are missing? This is a choice you made, and it comes with its own set of rewards and consequences. You realize, though, that your accuracy increases as you level?

 

Not being great against wolves/lions/bandits at low level makes perfect sense to me. If you were to suddenly venture out into an African savannah, with little prior shooting/hunting experience, would you expect to hit every lion before it tore you to pieces?

 

With auto attacks being pretty dang decent in this game (which may be all you need for easy enemies), I don't personally see a significant balance problem.

Edited July 29, 2015 by Nobear

[View619]

1. Spell hit chances are a dice roll, bad-luck is possible.

Pay attention to a creature's defenses before you select a spell. Aiming Fan of Flames against an enemy with High reflexes will graze or miss more often than not.

Stop bragging about making progress on Hard mode, it's not difficult. The only difficult option is Path of the Damned.

[MalVeauX]

 

 

Hrm,

 

I never noticed spells missing a ton. They're not auto-hit. But you'll notice spells have +accuracy bonuses, and they tell you what they're targeting (Deflection, Reflex, Will, Fortitude, etc). Pay attention to the opponent's defenses (bestiary, pause while fighting and hover the opponent). It's pretty simple, but using a spell that targets Fortitude or Deflection against something with really high Deflection & Fortitude scores, but has a low Reflex, is your fault, not the game's. Attack their lowest defense score.

 

Very best,

 

 

Right, and then you have spells like Miasma of Dull-Mindedness (mage), Painful Interdiction (priest) and Tanglefoot and Nature's Mark (druid) that all stack for some really major debuffs. On my max level mage, I usually open with the crit-boosting self buff that lasts a long time, followed by Eldritch Aim, and then my CC is going to be pretty effective, especially since my druid has been debuffing the enemy in the meantime. Oh, my cipher opens with Amplified Wave to give my mage and druid time to start shining with their CCs and AoE nukes.

 

This game is supposed to be tactical. If you want a simpler game, there are plenty of those out there. If you want to be rewarded for thinking strategically, that's one of the things PoE was designed to do.

 

I play dark souls/dark souls 2 +7/ bg1/2 on hard mode (pretty much always solo or with one partner) aswell as nwn2 and this and have been playing the witcher 3 on death march.

 

Do I look like I'm looking for a simple easy game? just because I'm asking for class balance doesn't mean I want it easy, about 70-80% of people have rated wizards as underwhelming or underpowered.

 

I just beat the drake and all his high priests in the place below the keep on hard/expert mode with 4 party memebers each at level 4-5 and I beat raedric at level 4 SOLO on hard after like 7ish tries, when people are complaining about him being impossible with a party of 6.

 

I'm not saying u shouldn't have to debuff enemies, but you had to do that too in BG2 and spells still always hit, you SHOULDN'T have to debuff a couple of mundune wolves/lions/bandits, its just ****ing annoying and a waste of spells.

 

 

We have no idea what your background gaming-cred is. So why would you even fathom that we might be able to answer "what you look like?"

 

From what you've just stated, it's just more support towards you being a gamer who should be able to adapt to a gaming system and realize that the mechanic behind what you're complaining about is just that... a mechanic that you should have noted. You wouldn't be here complaining about it otherwise. Since you've migrated between all these games that we've all played, in hard or whatever mode you please, then it's perfectly plausible and probably expected that the idea that you have to choose a spell that targets a defense characteristic that is more reliable for you to hit for that particular encounter would be a common and understand practice for you.

 

This isn't class balance--as you put it, you're asking for spells which target a defensive characteristic to hit more often, which is simply put: make it easier to hit the enemy with spells. This just says "I'm not going to pay attention to my spell targeting deflection and using it against something with a deflection score of 140+ and wondering why it missed."

 

I think the comment that you're asking that trash mobs be easier to hit with spells is more what you're really looking at.

 

But then, what's the point of having a hard mode, expert mode, path of the damned, etc, if you wanted it to be easier to take down trash mobs, let alone bosses? But you don't want it to be easier... per you.

 

No offense meant by any of this, but we're trying to understand you.

 

Very best,

[Lord_Mord]

 

I beat Demagorgorgon on hard mode solo dude.... with my warrior/mage.

 

That is funny. My girlfriend and me killed that thing yesterday evening. He is actually not that hard to kill (Once you figured out how), if you have a good fighter in the group and/or summon some planars. You just have to debuff him and then make a lot of damage. But killing him with magic only (no summoning) should be quite hard. I'll try it soon.

 

 

about 70-80% of people have rated wizards as underwhelming or underpowered.

 

In my opinion, the opposite is true. They are totally overpowered. They make too much damage. The only difference between a mage and a fighter, if the only thing they do is creating damage is the animation. And there are strategies that can even make them more powerful (I went through half of the game just with my mage and Aloth). Like dazing, damage, dazing, damage (I killed the big troll that way. You know, that headhunter job everyone complains about, because it is sooo hard). Add a druid and you don't even have to face your enemies anymore. Just create an area of thorns, fire, slicken, whatever you want and burn them all alive.

[gkathellar]

 

about 70-80% of people have rated wizards as underwhelming or underpowered.

 

In my opinion, the opposite is true. They are totally overpowered. They make too much damage. The only difference between a mage and a fighter, if the only thing they do is creating damage is the animation. And there are strategies that can even make them more powerful (I went through half of the game just with my mage and Aloth). Like dazing, damage, dazing, damage (I killed the big troll that way. You know, that headhunter job everyone complains about, because it is sooo hard). Add a druid and you don't even have to face your enemies anymore. Just create an area of thorns, fire, slicken, whatever you want and burn them all alive.

 

I think the notion that wizards were underpowered mostly came from the Backer Beta, where there was a real sense that they compared unfavorably to the druid. Due in part to the patches since, that's no longer a well-founded opinion. Hell, MadDemiurge not only figured out how to beat the Adra Dragon with a solo wizard, but even how to beat her with a solo melee wizard. At this point, it's probably switched places with cipher for the title of definitively strongest class.

[Sidney]

OP clearly never tried to land a spell that was negated with a saving throw at high levels in BG2. Against level 15+ enemies, the odds of a successful save were somewhere between 90% to 100% unless you cast 2-3 debuffs first. That was missing too much.

It was why Disintegrate was such a lousy spell. It sounds cool but anything you want to use it on always save and anything that doesn't really didn't need to get disintegrated anyways.

 

I will say I miss the sure interrupter ability that magic missile was compared to all the missing my not a magic missile but legally distinct spell now does.

[alexis13]

 

I play dark souls/dark souls 2 +7/ bg1/2 on hard mode (pretty much always solo or with one partner) aswell as nwn2 and this and have been playing the witcher 3 on death march.

 

Do I look like I'm looking for a simple easy game? just because I'm asking for class balance doesn't mean I want it easy, about 70-80% of people have rated wizards as underwhelming or underpowered.

 

I just beat the drake and all his high priests in the place below the keep on hard/expert mode with 4 party memebers each at level 4-5 and I beat raedric at level 4 SOLO on hard after like 7ish tries, when people are complaining about him being impossible with a party of 6.

 

I'm not saying u shouldn't have to debuff enemies, but you had to do that too in BG2 and spells still always hit, you SHOULDN'T have to debuff a couple of mundune wolves/lions/bandits, its just ****ing annoying and a waste of spells.

 

So you're complaining because you chose to power through the game, being much lower level than the average player would against a given enemy, and your spells are missing? This is a choice you made, and it comes with its own set of rewards and consequences. You realize, though, that your accuracy increases as you level?

 

Not being great against wolves/lions/bandits at low level makes perfect sense to me. If you were to suddenly venture out into an African savannah, with little prior shooting/hunting experience, would you expect to hit every lion before it tore you to pieces?

 

With auto attacks being pretty dang decent in this game (which may be all you need for easy enemies), I don't personally see a significant balance problem.

 

Actually I realise now the **** I fought was apparently ment to be pretty hard

 

Elder lions and Elder wolves.

 

I killed the Drake and the Xaurip high priests and these two eld/lion/wolf have superseded them on "strongest enemy killed"