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White March and the Rogue


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I´ve always been a fan of sneaky-peaky cloak-and-dagger type of characters that migitate damage by evasion, illusion and confusion while dealing tremendous amounts of singletarget damage.

 

I have to admit that I was a bit disappointed in the POE rogue, for a couple of reasons;

 

1) Not enough mobility and stealth

2) Too many per rest abilities, too few per encounter

 

To be more specific, I would like to see escape changed to being more responsive(free action perhaps) and perhaps with a slightly longer range. Also I would give my right arm to have some form of stealth on a per ENCOUNTER.

 

Just to be clear though, I do not think that the rogue is particularly underpowered, so obviously such a change would have to be a nerf of something else.

 

 

I´d like to start a discussion about the "feel" of the rogue, in terms of flavor and fantasy.

 

Do you like the rogue in it´s current state? If no, what would you change?

 

 

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Stealth change is not going to give you ability to restealth in combat, only remain in stealth when the rest of the party fights. This is going to help utilizing backstab without getting immediately murdered though.

 

Overall, issues you're describing are not Rogue exclusive, most of the martial classes have few interesting abilities and feel bland to me. Cipher can use a similar playstyle while being more fun though.

 

Too many per rest abilities? Well some of the high level strikes (withering and... terrifying?) are not strong enough to be per rest, I agree. Shadowing beyond as per encounter would be OP in its current implementation. Finishing blow would also be OP as per encounter. I don't recall any other per rest abilities.

 

I do feel like some of the utility rogue options should be boosted, like escape and coordinated positioning. All strike abilities should be per encounter too.

 

OTOH, deathblows are quite OP and should be nerfed in some way.

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Stealth change is not going to give you ability to restealth in combat, only remain in stealth when the rest of the party fights. This is going to help utilizing backstab without getting immediately murdered though.

 

[...]

While true as per the default changes described, this might not turn out to be entirely true in the end. At the very least, it opens up for the possibility to have Abilities that takes you back into Stealth during combat, simply because it's possible for it to happen now, which is a pretty sweet prospect.

 

OP can forget about the mobility, though. The restrictions to mobility of any kind isn't a rogue issue, it's an issue that permeates the system and it's a concious design decision.

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It's the usual thing: PoE classes don't function quite the same as classes with the same name in other games, and people are thrown.

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Everyone knows Science Fiction is really cool. You know what PoE really needs? Spaceships! There isn't any game that wouldn't be improved by a space combat minigame. Adding one to PoE would send sales skyrocketing, and ensure the game was remembered for all time!!!!!

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OP can forget about the mobility, though. The restrictions to mobility of any kind isn't a rogue issue, it's an issue that permeates the system and it's a concious design decision.

 

Have you tried building a mobile party? Hint: Blessed was Wendgridth as he Zealously Chargeth...

I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com

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OP can forget about the mobility, though. The restrictions to mobility of any kind isn't a rogue issue, it's an issue that permeates the system and it's a concious design decision.

 

Have you tried building a mobile party? Hint: Blessed was Wendgridth as he Zealously Chargeth...

 

 

Also, the mobility and disengagement defense talents.

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I´ve always been a fan of sneaky-peaky cloak-and-dagger type of characters that migitate damage by evasion, illusion and confusion while dealing tremendous amounts of singletarget damage.

 

I have to admit that I was a bit disappointed in the POE rogue, for a couple of reasons;

 

1) Not enough mobility and stealth

2) Too many per rest abilities, too few per encounter

 

To be more specific, I would like to see escape changed to being more responsive(free action perhaps) and perhaps with a slightly longer range. Also I would give my right arm to have some form of stealth on a per ENCOUNTER.

 

Just to be clear though, I do not think that the rogue is particularly underpowered, so obviously such a change would have to be a nerf of something else.

 

 

I´d like to start a discussion about the "feel" of the rogue, in terms of flavor and fantasy.

 

Do you like the rogue in it´s current state? If no, what would you change?

 

Heya,

 

I think you're wanting the classic Rogue to from the past to be injected in this new approach to this style of AD&D game. I agree to a point, but at the same time, it's clear the developers are following more closely to the newest form of the game where there's a lot more crossover and shared things, and less ultra-specialization going on.

 

For example, in this game, everyone can get Stealth and pump it high and be sneaky. 

Everyone can push mechanics to be high, and lockpick and use traps and stuff.

But only the Rogue has the class-specific abilities (mostly attacks or evasion).

 

I happen to really like that other classes can be the lock-pickers or stealth characters. It means I'm not forced to have a rogue around just for interesting things in locked chests or doors.

 

I would look more at what the Rogue actually has that is unique to the Rogue in the current PoE. The Rogue abilities that are unique are mostly attack types that blind or cripple, or have some kind of evasion. Granted, there's not a lot of them, and you're very correct that they're mostly per rest which is annoying (then again, blind and hobble with 4+ attacks at per encounter is pretty powerful with a ranged weapon).

 

I agree that it would be more interesting to have more stealth based options or evasion options, but then the Rogue would be less reliant on a Defender of sorts and the newer games of D&D focus on that more, where the party has to have roles, and not just super-characters that handle everything.

 

Very best,

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Stealth change is not going to give you ability to restealth in combat, only remain in stealth when the rest of the party fights. This is going to help utilizing backstab without getting immediately murdered though.

 

[...]

While true as per the default changes described, this might not turn out to be entirely true in the end. At the very least, it opens up for the possibility to have Abilities that takes you back into Stealth during combat, simply because it's possible for it to happen now, which is a pretty sweet prospect.

 

OP can forget about the mobility, though. The restrictions to mobility of any kind isn't a rogue issue, it's an issue that permeates the system and it's a concious design decision.

 

It would be technically possible yes, but shadowing beyond is a similar mechanic anyway, and anything else that would allow to stealth on per encounter basis is potentially OP.

 

As for mobility, with escape and coordinated positioning buffs (I'm thinking cast speed and range buffs), rogue would be a pretty mobile class compared to many others.

Edited by MadDemiurg
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Stealth change is not going to give you ability to restealth in combat, only remain in stealth when the rest of the party fights. This is going to help utilizing backstab without getting immediately murdered though.

 

[...]

While true as per the default changes described, this might not turn out to be entirely true in the end. At the very least, it opens up for the possibility to have Abilities that takes you back into Stealth during combat, simply because it's possible for it to happen now, which is a pretty sweet prospect.

 

OP can forget about the mobility, though. The restrictions to mobility of any kind isn't a rogue issue, it's an issue that permeates the system and it's a concious design decision.

 

It would be technically possible yes, but shadowing beyond is a similar mechanic anyway, and anything else that would allow to stealth on per encounter basis is potentially OP.

 

As for mobility, with escape and coordinated positioning buffs (I'm thinking cast speed and range buffs), rogue would be a pretty mobile class compared to many others.

 

 

I'm actually hoping that Shadowing Beyond would be turned into an Ability that makes you invisible for just a few 3-4 seconds, but takes you into Stealth. Would be a lot more interesting than just a blanket 10 seconds invisibility.

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