Is this a bug or not?

[Fessels]

Okay a while ago I started playing a Paladin and at first I thought I would not like it, but it turned out I did. ( It is my first Character to get this far in the game. ) At first I did not pay attention to Faith of Conviction ( How it works. ) because I thought that it got added to the defences silently. With that I mean I thought that even though it did not show on the defences it was still added.

 

After the 1.06 patch got live my Paladins Defences suddenly got raised by amounts that seemed to look like those from Faith and Conviction.

 

Just after patch 1.06 was installed.

 

And it stayed like that until I reached level 10, then the defences suddenly showed up like this? ( As if FaC was gone? )

 

Now after reaching level 10?

 

Now at the time of both screenshots above, the only icons that showed next to my Paladin and the rest of the party where those of Zealous Focus and the one for Dragons Lair resting bonus, and I was not in combat? I have no explanation of what causes this, and I have no idea whether it is a bug or not? Just in case some one wants to know the active effects on my Paladin ...

 

Active effects. ( The same on level 9 and 10. )

 

 

The above seems odd to me, so hence my question.

 

 

 

 

[Fessels]

Been testing faith and Conviction and it works perfectly on my Paladin. I get the correct defensive bonuses. Are you running any mods?

 

I do, IE Mod ... I hat two more but they where replaced again by the files from patch 1.06. At least I think they are, because they no longer work. Even if they would still be working I would not know whether a mod that influences Firearms and the other one the Druid Spiritshift could cause this to happen to a very specific Paladin Talent?

 

And it works with my savegame one your computer? 

 

 

EDIT: Torm51 thank you so much for tipping me of on mods.  it turned out that one particular setting in IE Mod caused my problem with Faith and Conviction. Turns out that ( At least for me. ) when I have the "Remove combat only" function active then Faith and Conviction does not work for me. I checked the IE Mod description of that function in the options menu, and the IE Mod team warns it can cause bugs, so I can not blame them for it. So from now on that function stays of.

 

Now that looks good.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Fessels

[Torm51]

Awesome! One of the coolest things about Paladins is how tough they are regardless if they are a tank or not (more so as a tank) thanks to faith and Conviction. Not having the full effect is a downer.

[celliott]

From what I understand the shield is intended to give the entire party the buff.  However, if that is intended, it should be clearly added to the description of the shield and what affects it has on the party.  

Glad to see you got Faith and Conviction figured out.  Unfortunately since we do not develop the mod we can't reliably test with it either.  Thanks!

[Nobear]

I have updated to the Mac GoG hotfix for 1.0.6, and I can confirm that the Outworn Buckler is now stacking with effects from other sources, but that it no longer applies to any other party members.

 

Part of me wishes I had taken a more clear stand on this lol. I guess any change is a tradeoff. From a gameplay balance perspective, it seems good and not overpowered. From a design perspective, it seems like the designers were originally thinking the Herald effect would apply to the whole party, based on the description of the shield and, well, the word "herald." In making it a self-only buff, paladins lose a certain cool uniqueness and advantage of their class: that these shields just for them would help inspire the party. On the other hand, nerfing their unique shields makes a wider range of shields comparatively viable for them.

 

How do the designers feel about this outcome, if it's not how they intended it, and how do other players feel? I've got mixed feelings. Because it stacks, it is now a more obvious choice over a standard Fine large shield, when I have two tanks and it's one of the first two unique shields available. However, it also means I'll most likely be replacing it sooner, since it's no longer special.

 

Also, is the latest Steam version working the same way? Are the GoG and Steam versions the same build now?

 

Edit: Maybe a compromise could be to make it party-wide again (and stack), but lessen the effect slightly, like 4 to defenses for Outworn Buckler and 8 for Little Savior.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Nobear

[Fessels]

I have updated to the Mac GoG hotfix for 1.0.6, and I can confirm that the Outworn Buckler is now stacking with effects from other sources, but that it no longer applies to any other party members.

 

Part of me wishes I had taken a more clear stand on this lol. I guess any change is a tradeoff. From a gameplay balance perspective, it seems good and not overpowered. From a design perspective, it seems like the designers were originally thinking the Herald effect would apply to the whole party, based on the description of the shield and, well, the word "herald." In making it a self-only buff, paladins lose a certain cool uniqueness and advantage of their class: that these shields just for them would help inspire the party. On the other hand, nerfing their unique shields makes a wider range of shields comparatively viable for them.

 

How do the designers feel about this outcome, if it's not how they intended it, and how do other players feel? I've got mixed feelings. Because it stacks, it is now a more obvious choice over a standard Fine large shield, when I have two tanks and it's one of the first two unique shields available. However, it also means I'll most likely be replacing it sooner, since it's no longer special.

 

Also, is the latest Steam version working the same way? Are the GoG and Steam versions the same build now?

 

Edit: Maybe a compromise could be to make it party-wide again (and stack), but lessen the effect slightly, like 4 to defenses for Outworn Buckler and 8 for Little Savior.

 

Well it still applies to companions in my game, but that is okay, I only switch to a one handed weapon and the Outworn Buckler if I need some more defence. As for the Outworn Buckler being the more obvious choice ... maybe ... for a Paladin. But that buckler can only be use by a Paladin so if some one does not have a Paladin the shield is useless. Besides Little Saviour has the same Herald and more and can be used by any one. Also Ilfan Byrngar's Solace and Scâth Gwannek are good Medium Shields. ( Although they do not have Herald. )

 

As for GoG versus Steam ... I have no idea actually, my understanding is that the GoG version gets the latest patches a few day later? So whether GoG players have the latest patch and Hotfix ... I am not sure? 

Edited June 19, 2015 by Fessels

[Nobear]

So you are saying that these Herald shields are not always the obvious choices, even playing on a version where they stack AND are group wide? Well maybe the Herald shields don't need to be nerfed then.

 

I think more important would be to get consistency across the various versions of PoE so that players can be on the same page. To the developers: would it be feasible to use the same build for all the distributions of a given version?

[Fessels]

So you are saying that these Herald shields are not always the obvious choices, even playing on a version where they stack AND are group wide? Well maybe the Herald shields don't need to be nerfed then.

 

I personally think so now, the +5 to all defences definitely helps at times. But if you have two frontline tanks for instance then the rest are in the back attacking from range with weapons and spells. ( Well in my game at least. ) At those moments I personally would not mind to use Ilfan Byrngar's Solace or Scâth Gwannek instead of Outworn Buckler.

 

 

I think more important would be to get consistency across the various versions of PoE so that players can be on the same page. 

 

Even though I play on steam ... I agree, it would be a whole lot more fair to GoG players if they would get the patches at the same time. ( If that is possible, then they should try to do that. ) 

[Nobear]

Even though I play on steam ... I agree, it would be a whole lot more fair to GoG players if they would get the patches at the same time. ( If that is possible, then they should try to do that. ) 

 

There are probably legitimate reasons why it might take longer to put out one distribution vs another. What I'm saying is, even if it takes longer for legitimate reasons, I would prefer that the later distributions use the same build. I don't know if the developers think they are doing GoG gamers a favor or making up for the time delay by giving them a more up-to-date build, or if it's easier for them to do it this way for some reason.

 

My argument is that it would be better for a given version to be consistent across distributions, even if one takes longer to put out, because then we'd be on the same page. It is harder to fix bugs if they only happen with some distributions and not others. Guides and advice for builds, etc. also have to take these nuances into account, or else be misleading to part of the player base.

 

It gives the impression that, in some cases, the right hand doesn't talk to the left hand the way things are currently set up. When I report a bug, it'd be nice to know that people can agree it exists, and that it will be squashed for all distributions, instead of having some distributions fix (and create) bugs at different times, leading to messy confusion and a less polished game overall.

[Nobear]

Wow I don't know how I concluded that the Outworn Buckler had changed for me in the latest GoG hotfix. In my latest restart of the game to tweak my stats (yeah I'm bad ), it is party-wide but not stacking.

 

If I had to choose one, I'd take the stacking, but I'd rather have both. Even by the time you get it, your front line already has +5 to all defenses from items, so it's basically a regular buckler unless you haven't positioned the fight well and your back row is closer than it should be. Even then, it isn't long until they get their defenses covered from items.

 

Consistency between distributions! Any word on this philosophy from a developer?