The all Priest challenge?

[PlotinusRedux]

6 priests would be easy but long due to the number of spells you'd be casting.

Round 1 you could 6 major buffs up for the whole party.  Round 2 fire off 6 Consegrated grounds.  Round 3 6 damaging stuns.

But it would be tedious because of the number of spells you would have to cast.  Like with tanking wizards--once buffs are up they are the strongest tanks in the game, but do you really want to have to click that many buttons every fight?

Maybe toss in a couple of fighters and arm the 4 priests with ranged to auto-attack through the trash?

[Luckmann]

 

 

...

 

mindboggling.  how can you still not know what is strawman?  is this an internet thing?  didn't we go through this in both the respec and codex review threads?

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps 'cause luckman still not get what happened it seems, seal spell accuracy did not use spell accuracy but rather used trap accuracy.  the math were complete different from spell accuracy.  priests did not enjoy any greater benefit from mechanics than would a rogue or chanter or mage using a physical trap.  it weren't a bug.  the problem were traps.

Oh, poor Strawnir, flailing like a sinking crash-dummy.

 

I think the best part is where you say I haven't understood the issue, then describe the exact issue as I already explained it, and then go on to detail the bug, ending it all with saying that wasn't a bug.

 

It's been a known bug since forever. It likely had to do with how those spells were modeled after traps to begin with, and the issue was just too far down on the list of priorities that it wasn't fixed until now.

 

ignoring your strawman claim and just barreling ahead, eh?

 

irony.  we described why mechanics + traps weren't a bug.  priests got no more benefit from the mechanics accuracy boost to their spell traps than did any character using a physical trap.  is why we were told that it were working as intended.  is only two people we ever saw raise this issue during the beta, and you weren't one o' them.  were more than a few threads complaining about bugs making X or Y class overpowered, yes?  show us the ones that identified priests as overpowered.   show where you claimed this were a bug during the beta.  show where obsidians noted it were a bug.

 

if this were such a well-known and obvious bug, surely you will find considerable pre-release evidence, no? Gromnir and some guy named ushsomethingorother. 

 

so, show us.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Oh, Strawnir, just strawmanning away like a champ.

 

For everyone watching, note that the Strawnir does not actually address the issue, but rather deflects and creates the strawman of trying to make the argument into something it never was. It brings up the beta, which is irrelevant, and it brings up whether I reported it during the beta or not, which is similarly irrelevant. It also brings up that "priests got no more benefit out of mechanics accuracy boost to their spell traps than did any character using a physical trap", which is also completely irrelevant.

 

The bug was that Seals were considered Traps at all, and got any benefit from Mechanics whatsoever. No-one in their right mind thought that Mechanics contributing to Priest seals, or that Seals and Traps were mutually exclusive, was working as intended. Then there was Strawnir.

 

Strawnir, it's getting sad. It is like watching an alzheimer's patient degenerate.

[Gromnir]

 

 

 

...

 

mindboggling.  how can you still not know what is strawman?  is this an internet thing?  didn't we go through this in both the respec and codex review threads?

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps 'cause luckman still not get what happened it seems, seal spell accuracy did not use spell accuracy but rather used trap accuracy.  the math were complete different from spell accuracy.  priests did not enjoy any greater benefit from mechanics than would a rogue or chanter or mage using a physical trap.  it weren't a bug.  the problem were traps.

Oh, poor Strawnir, flailing like a sinking crash-dummy.

 

I think the best part is where you say I haven't understood the issue, then describe the exact issue as I already explained it, and then go on to detail the bug, ending it all with saying that wasn't a bug.

 

It's been a known bug since forever. It likely had to do with how those spells were modeled after traps to begin with, and the issue was just too far down on the list of priorities that it wasn't fixed until now.

 

ignoring your strawman claim and just barreling ahead, eh?

 

irony.  we described why mechanics + traps weren't a bug.  priests got no more benefit from the mechanics accuracy boost to their spell traps than did any character using a physical trap.  is why we were told that it were working as intended.  is only two people we ever saw raise this issue during the beta, and you weren't one o' them.  were more than a few threads complaining about bugs making X or Y class overpowered, yes?  show us the ones that identified priests as overpowered.   show where you claimed this were a bug during the beta.  show where obsidians noted it were a bug.

 

if this were such a well-known and obvious bug, surely you will find considerable pre-release evidence, no? Gromnir and some guy named ushsomethingorother. 

 

so, show us.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Oh, Strawnir, just strawmanning away like a champ.

 

For everyone watching, note that the Strawnir does not actually address the issue, but rather deflects and creates the strawman of trying to make the argument into something it never was. It brings up the beta, which is irrelevant, and it brings up whether I reported it during the beta or not, which is similarly irrelevant. It also brings up that "priests got no more benefit out of mechanics accuracy boost to their spell traps than did any character using a physical trap", which is also completely irrelevant.

 

The bug was that Seals were considered Traps at all, and got any benefit from Mechanics whatsoever. No-one in their right mind thought that Mechanics contributing to Priest seals, or that Seals and Traps were mutually exclusive, was working as intended. Then there was Strawnir.

 

Strawnir, it's getting sad. It is like watching an alzheimer's patient degenerate.

 

so, not gonna show anything?  figures.

 

traps were not known to be wildly unbalanced til after release, so a feature that had a spell treated as a trap were not considered inherent unbalanced-- why would it be?  treat a seal as a trap is not a problem if traps is balanced, yes? use different math than other spells?  well gosh, hazard spells do that in the current builds.  hazards is 'posed is s'posed to work different.  is not a bug.  were not a bug.  (actual, treat seals as hazard should be reconsidered  'cause increased accuracy is only making sense if the hazard is genuine hazardous to friends and foes. seals, being only hazardous to foes, don't genuine need increased accuracy.) regardless, traps were broken.  is not that seals were treated as traps that were problematic, but that traps were broken.  traps were nerfed in an incremental and piecemeal fashion so it ain't surprising that fixing all traps has taken a considerable amount o' time, effort and and rebalance. but this ain't new territory. Gromnir is forced to be repetitive, 'cause you are unresponsive and obdurate.

 

so, show us.  

 

no?  figures.

 

furthermore, you don't have any idea what is strawman, as becomes increasing apparent every time you post. disagree with you and your premise does not make a response strawman... what a chucklehead.  add illustrations and examples o' why your claims premise is flawed is also not strawman.  

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78279-rpgcodex-review-1-h%C5%B5rpa-dwrp/page-30?do=findComment&comment=1674203

 

claim that d&d and ie game hard counters and insta kills is having same origins, strengths and weaknesses is not strawman.  

 

claim that seals as traps were needing o' rebalance as all other traps were also not strawman as we never attributed the argument to you... then knocked stuffing outta it 'cause it were so obvious weak.

 

you are hopeless.

 

again, read the linked post as well as preceding and subsequent posts to get yet another education in the strawman logic fallacy.  force us to yet again define and correct your continuing misapprehension is becoming spam.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Luckmann]

 

 

 

 

...

 

mindboggling.  how can you still not know what is strawman?  is this an internet thing?  didn't we go through this in both the respec and codex review threads?

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps 'cause luckman still not get what happened it seems, seal spell accuracy did not use spell accuracy but rather used trap accuracy.  the math were complete different from spell accuracy.  priests did not enjoy any greater benefit from mechanics than would a rogue or chanter or mage using a physical trap.  it weren't a bug.  the problem were traps.

Oh, poor Strawnir, flailing like a sinking crash-dummy.

 

I think the best part is where you say I haven't understood the issue, then describe the exact issue as I already explained it, and then go on to detail the bug, ending it all with saying that wasn't a bug.

 

It's been a known bug since forever. It likely had to do with how those spells were modeled after traps to begin with, and the issue was just too far down on the list of priorities that it wasn't fixed until now.

 

ignoring your strawman claim and just barreling ahead, eh?

 

irony.  we described why mechanics + traps weren't a bug.  priests got no more benefit from the mechanics accuracy boost to their spell traps than did any character using a physical trap.  is why we were told that it were working as intended.  is only two people we ever saw raise this issue during the beta, and you weren't one o' them.  were more than a few threads complaining about bugs making X or Y class overpowered, yes?  show us the ones that identified priests as overpowered.   show where you claimed this were a bug during the beta.  show where obsidians noted it were a bug.

 

if this were such a well-known and obvious bug, surely you will find considerable pre-release evidence, no? Gromnir and some guy named ushsomethingorother. 

 

so, show us.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Oh, Strawnir, just strawmanning away like a champ.

 

For everyone watching, note that the Strawnir does not actually address the issue, but rather deflects and creates the strawman of trying to make the argument into something it never was. It brings up the beta, which is irrelevant, and it brings up whether I reported it during the beta or not, which is similarly irrelevant. It also brings up that "priests got no more benefit out of mechanics accuracy boost to their spell traps than did any character using a physical trap", which is also completely irrelevant.

 

The bug was that Seals were considered Traps at all, and got any benefit from Mechanics whatsoever. No-one in their right mind thought that Mechanics contributing to Priest seals, or that Seals and Traps were mutually exclusive, was working as intended. Then there was Strawnir.

 

Strawnir, it's getting sad. It is like watching an alzheimer's patient degenerate.

 

so, not gonna show anything?  figures.

 

traps were not known to be wildly unbalanced til after release, so a feature that had a spell treated as a trap were not considered inherent unbalanced-- why would it be?  treat a seal as a trap is not a problem if traps is balanced, yes? use different math than other spells?  well gosh, hazard spells do that in the current builds.  hazards is 'posed is s'posed to work different.  is not a bug.  were not a bug.  (actual, treat seals as hazard should be reconsidered  'cause increased accuracy is only making sense if the hazard is genuine hazardous to friends and foes. seals, being only hazardous to foes, don't genuine need increased accuracy.) regardless, traps were broken.  is not that seals were treated as traps that were problematic, but that traps were broken.  traps were nerfed in an incremental and piecemeal fashion so it ain't surprising that fixing all traps has taken a considerable amount o' time, effort and and rebalance. but this ain't new territory. Gromnir is forced to be repetitive, 'cause you are unresponsive and obdurate.

 

so, show us.  

 

no?  figures.

 

furthermore, you don't have any idea what is strawman, as becomes increasing apparent every time you post. disagree with you and your premise does not make a response strawman... what a chucklehead.  add illustrations and examples o' why your claims premise is flawed is also not strawman.  

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78279-rpgcodex-review-1-hŵrpa-dwrp/page-30#entry1674203

 

claim that d&d and ie game hard counters and insta kills is having same origins, strengths and weaknesses is not strawman.  

 

claim that seals as traps were needing o' rebalance as all other traps were also not strawman as we never attributed the argument to you... then knocked stuffing outta it 'cause it were so obvious weak.

 

you are hopeless.

 

again, read the linked post as well as preceding and subsequent posts to get yet another education in the strawman logic fallacy.  force us to yet again define and correct your continuing misapprehension is becoming spam.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Strawnir, Strawnir, Strawnir, will you ever learn?

 

I've explained to you time and time again why what you're doing are strawmanning - that you try to attribute stances to others that they have not taken, and attack that stance, instead of addressing the argument. Here it is again, you go on and on about traps, even though the point raised always was that Seals was never supposed to have gained bonuses from Mechanics, and that the fact that they did was a bug.

 

It has nothing to do with traps going through balancing. It has nothing to do with conversations regarding how traps work. It has nothing to do with respeccing or who reported what during beta, or other threads on the subject. Nobody in their right mind ever thought that Seals were supposed to benefit from Mechanics in any way, whether it was more or less compared to traps - another strawman you tried to push, that you were somehow right because nuh-uh, Seals didn't benefit more. As if that matters; as if anyone actually raised that point and that it needs to be addressed. Nobody did, except you, attributing it to others, and arguing against it. Straw. Man.

 

And you even try to misrepresent the previous thread where you also did a number of strawmen, and when called on it, you go on and on with other strawmen. Many people explained the difference to you, that people wanting a more IE-like experience should not be lumped into some pro-"d&d-like" group, because there are important differences, and people were arguing for different things. You tried to say that people were arguing for "more d&d", when no-one was, and explained the difference to you. You tried to paint the "other" side as representing something they didn't, and attack that position. Textbook strawman. And you do this constantly and consistently.

 

It lost it's charm at least 6 months ago.

 

Everyone that takes the time to trudge through your posts knows this, provided they've got a positive IQ. No-one can take you serious anymore; you're practically just trolling, if it wasn't for the fact that the ignorance is real. Even now, you're trying to deflect by pulling on a completely different conversation that has no relation to this particular issue at all.

 

You are Strawnir, the Lord of Straw, Fighter of Windmills and Honorary Don Quijote of the Obsidian Forum.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Luckmann

[Gromnir]

lordy.  

 

"Nobody in their right mind ever thought that Seals were supposed to benefit from Mechanics in any way,"

 

so show the complaints and observations.

 

 you still don't get strawman.  you post a link but you don't explain why our supposed mischaracterization o' your arguments were strawman.  random linky?  great.  shows you has heard the basic definition, which we already provided to you in our link.  the problem is that you are using it wrong.  claim that d&d hard counters and ie game hard counters is functionally the same is a strawman?  how?  how does observing that such is the same make the argument weaker.  gotta attribute a weak argument and then knock stuffing outta it.  were Gromnir who were saying that whether you called ie or d&d made no difference 'cause they were the same.  

 

also, strawman requires that we is attributing an argument to you that you did not make.  Gromnir never suggested that YOU believe that seals and mechanics were s'posed to be linked.  duh.

 

keep posting.  you will eventually get this... or not.  if only education you got is 2 minute youtube videos, we get the confusion on your part.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Luckmann]

lordy.  

 

"Nobody in their right mind ever thought that Seals were supposed to benefit from Mechanics in any way,"

 

so show the complaints and observations.

 

 you still don't get strawman.  you post a link but you don't explain why our supposed mischaracterization o' your arguments were strawman.  random linky?  great.  shows you has heard the basic definition, which we already provided to you in our link.  the problem is that you are using it wrong.  claim that d&d hard counters and ie game hard counters is functionally the same is a strawman?  how?  how does observing that such is the same make the argument weaker.  gotta attribute a weak argument and then knock stuffing outta it.  were Gromnir who were saying that whether you called ie or d&d made no difference 'cause they were the same.  

 

also, strawman requires that we is attributing an argument to you that you did not make.  Gromnir never suggested that YOU believe that seals and mechanics were s'posed to be linked.  duh.

 

keep posting.  you will eventually get this... or not.  if only education you got is 2 minute youtube videos, we get the confusion on your part.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

There's been plenty of observations, pretty much in every thread I've seen this brought up, but I don't think there's been any real complaints, simply because I don't think it's really registered as an issue. Which is also why it took so long to fix. Even so, what you're calling for is essentially argumentum ad populum, but fair enough.

 

And really, Strawnir, I've gone through what strawmans are with you in detail, multiple times, and how you've repeatedly tried to address arguments that no-one ever made. Everyone knows this. I know it. You know it. Everyone that reads your posts know it. It's not a secret. The only one that needs to accept that you have a problem is you. The sad fact is that I'm pretty sure you don't do it on purpose, and most times this comes up, you misunderstanding could be solved with a simple apology. But you just keep on' truckin'. If it's not strawmanning, it's deflecting, or attempts at ridicule.

[Gromnir]

 

lordy.  

 

"Nobody in their right mind ever thought that Seals were supposed to benefit from Mechanics in any way,"

 

so show the complaints and observations.

 

 you still don't get strawman.  you post a link but you don't explain why our supposed mischaracterization o' your arguments were strawman.  random linky?  great.  shows you has heard the basic definition, which we already provided to you in our link.  the problem is that you are using it wrong.  claim that d&d hard counters and ie game hard counters is functionally the same is a strawman?  how?  how does observing that such is the same make the argument weaker.  gotta attribute a weak argument and then knock stuffing outta it.  were Gromnir who were saying that whether you called ie or d&d made no difference 'cause they were the same.  

 

also, strawman requires that we is attributing an argument to you that you did not make.  Gromnir never suggested that YOU believe that seals and mechanics were s'posed to be linked.  duh.

 

keep posting.  you will eventually get this... or not.  if only education you got is 2 minute youtube videos, we get the confusion on your part.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

There's been plenty of observations, pretty much in every thread I've seen this brought up, but I don't think there's been any real complaints, simply because I don't think it's really registered as an issue. Which is also why it took so long to fix. Even so, what you're calling for is essentially argumentum ad populum, but fair enough.

 

And really, Strawnir, I've gone through what strawmans are with you in detail, multiple times, and how you've repeatedly tried to address arguments that no-one ever made. Everyone knows this. I know it. You know it. Everyone that reads your posts know it. It's not a secret. The only one that needs to accept that you have a problem is you. The sad fact is that I'm pretty sure you don't do it on purpose, and most times this comes up, you misunderstanding could be solved with a simple apology. But you just keep on' truckin'. If it's not strawmanning, it's deflecting, or attempts at ridicule.

 

bolded the extreme hypocrisy... just for funsies.

 

so again, vague claims rather than specifics.

 

show us.  show us where the obvious bug were complained o' by beta folks.  

 

show us what you actual think is a specific strawman 'cause by Gromnir and how it fits the definition, 'cause we has shown how our responses is not strawman.  

 

yell "strawman" again?  show us.  what is the argument we has attributed to you that we then beat the stuffing outta.  we did indeed claim that there were no difference 'tween d&d and ie hard counters, but is not a strawman 'cause is not Gromnir who were claiming that there were a difference in quality.  opposite is what we did.  Gromnir claimed that there were no difference 'tween d&d hard counters and insta kills. 

 

in the present thread, show where we attributed a weak argument to you and then knocked stuffing outta it.  you believe that seal spells were Obviously bugged, in spite o' failure to prove so.  great.  we disagree.  is not strawman to disagree.  we did not suggest or claim that you saw beta and initial release seals as anything other than bugged.  so, where is the strawman?  Gromnir disagreeing that seals is bugged is so fundamental different from strawman that am getting genuine tired o' explaining what should be obvious.

 

this is ridiculous.  is repetitive and ridiculous.  show us.  say... something.

 

HA! Good Fun!