Worst weapon types/specializations?

[Wolken3156]

Druid - no focus, there are better things to pick

Rot Skulls is a Wand so getting Weapon Focus: Adventurer isn't a bad idea actually. Its their best level 6 spell by far after all, especially with Dangerous Implement.

[MadDemiurg]

Rot Skulls is a Wand so getting Weapon Focus: Adventurer isn't a bad idea actually. Its their best level 6 spell by far after all, especially with Dangerous Implement.

 

Yeah, probably this is not a bad choice for lvl 12 talent. I wouldn't call it the best level 6 spell as Venombloom is quite good too and Sunlance has it uses for burst, but yeah, it's one of the best, many l6 Druid spells are lame. There's plenty of other good stuff to pick though.

 

As for weapon groops - imo one needs to have only 1-2 decent weapon types to be good. If it has a decent 1h weapon you already can dw and w+s. You don't really need 2h in this case. A decent ranged option would be good too, but not 100% necessary. Ruffian doesn't have 2h and it's a good group.

 

What imo makes knight bad is that there's not a single attractive weapon. Battleaxes are not the worst 1h but their uniques are pretty bad. I guess one can try an interrupt morningstar build, but I've never managed to make it work myself.

Edited May 28, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[Zwiebelchen]

Hunting bows seem like good interrupt weapons,

 

Until the interrupting blows talent is fixed, interrupt is pretty much pointless. But I haven't seen it on the 1.06 list.

So yeah, warbow all the way for rangers.

 

 

Am I the only one that thinks that there are too many weapon focus talents?

I mean, they give 6 accuracy, which is great, but on the other hand not that great considering how much you limit yourself in weapon choice.

 

Imho, the weapon focus talents should be slimmed down by one. Noble would be my vote here. Take the noble weapons and add them to the other categories. Nobody picks noble anyway.

 

 

Fighter - Peasant (hatchet to tank and spear to damage, Cladheliath with marking & coordinating works very well on a tank).

Chanter - No focus, use hatchet or some ranged weapon. Chanters don't need weapons.

Rogue - yeah, Ruffian. Alternatives are Soldier (Pike) and Adventurer (War bow, ranged).

Priest - Magran Priest with an arquebus and shield + whatever in second slot is a good option in a party. So Soldier. Some alternatives would include Skaen priest with Ruffian, Wael priest with Peasant and Berath priest with Noble, but these are more exotic.

Wizard - You want Soldier on a wizard for the Spirit lance. You can go Blights with Adventurer, but imo it's weaker (but available earlier). But you can go w/o any focus at all, spirit lance has plenty of accuracy anyway.

Druid - no focus, there are better things to pick

I think it's a matter of taste.

I don't like Peasant on tanks because I find hatchets don't provide enough deflection to make up for their terrible damage. Especially for Eder who scores a pretty good Might, I prefer something more offensive, like Sabres, Rapiers or Flails/Maces.

 

Chanter is actually the only "free for all" class. As 95% of the time chanters have good base deflection and probably wear heavier armor (because not much spells to cast, so why care for recovery time?), you can use whatever you want here. It's the only class imho where 2H axes and 2H maces actually make sense, as, contrary to the cipher, they have the deflection and hitpoints to take a hit or two.

 

For ciphers, now that focus cheese has been fixed, pikes/quarterstaves are the best option for the extended range. Unfortunately, there's only few good quarterstaves in the game, so you probably want to use a pike.

 

Wizards are a tough pick. Basicly, you want to select your focus depending on which summoned weapon you want to use... or just go without a focus. With the +15 accuracy first level spell, I actually never really felt the need to select a weapon focus for mages. You're probably better off taking blast and improved blast instead, as it synergizes well with several of the summoned weapons.

This is even worse for tank wizards. There's so much you want for this build that you can't waste a talent point on 6 extra accuracy.

 

Priest: I agree 100% here that it depends on deity choice. Priests have low base accuracy and the deity talent + weapon focus combined score a whopping +16 passive accuracy on top of your buffs for only 2 talent points (priests don't have a lot of useful talents anyway). Magran, Waen, Skael, in that order. Skael seems cool on paper, but you will mostly end up not using sneak attacks much. You're a priest, after all. Magran for the Arbequs, Waen for the free debuff.

 

Druid: Better stuff to pick? What? I found druids to have the least worthwhile talents of all classes. Extra spell slots are not worth the talent point and the +20% elemental damage is too situational to pick. You don't need any tank talents either. I ended up picking weak support talents like combat lazaret on high levels because there was nothing else worth picking. Definitely get a weapon focus on druids. Doesn't matter much which. I liked Warbows because it fit's the druid theme. For druids. I usually take the focus that favores a ranged weapon I did not use on other characters, for example, hunting bows (there's a great one on Od Nua level 5, and combined with the DR reduction modal it actually deals decent damage at fast speed).

Edited May 28, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[MadDemiurg]

Peasant also has spears which is a decent damage weapon.

 

Chanters have deflection and hitpoints contrary to cipher? They only have 5 deflection over cipher and exactly same health. If not taking actual stat build into account, survivability difference is negligible. OTOH chanters have NO damage boosting talents so they are bound to be subpar damage dealers with any weapon. They are better off as tanks imo,

 

Wizards can go without focus but as I said but soldier/adventurer are not bad picks overall.

 

As for druids, extra spells are very valuable imo because they have nothing like seal of faith/rings of wizardry. +20% elemental damage is pretty good too, so we're in disagreement again. WF is way more situational since past level 9 you rarely have time to even fire a weapon. Tank talents are good for anyone and W+S style is a nobrainer option for caster survivability as it does not interfere with casting in any way.

[Kaigen42]

@Zweibelchen: Interrupting Blows was fixed in 1.05.

 

 

2. Ruffian with Sabres or Stilettos using pistols or blunderbuss for initial alpha (quickswitch or not). Blunderbuss is still good with carow golan or vs low DR enemies, otherwise use pistols, unique pistols are quite competitive as hard hitting dps weapon. This still has the best burst generation with consumables (carow + blunderbus), good initial alpha and best dps when in melee. However melee is not as safe as with pike. Ruffian is still the pick for solo cipher imo.

 

3. Adventurer with warbow - This is the best steady focus generation option without engaging in melee. It will do better than ranged Soldier/Ruffian options in the long run. Melee option here would be estoc, which is decent, but not as good as dual sabres/stilettos overall and not as safe as pike.

 

Some back-of-the-napkin math I did after 1.05 suggests that pistol/blunderbuss does more damage than the war bow even accounting for attack rate, provided you have the Gunner talent. That said, the starting focus nerf on Ciphers makes Greater Focus a much more tempting option (especially early), and a gun-using Cipher will have difficulty fitting that into their build, which is a good argument for using the war bow.

[MadDemiurg]

@Zweibelchen: Interrupting Blows was fixed in 1.05.

 

 

2. Ruffian with Sabres or Stilettos using pistols or blunderbuss for initial alpha (quickswitch or not). Blunderbuss is still good with carow golan or vs low DR enemies, otherwise use pistols, unique pistols are quite competitive as hard hitting dps weapon. This still has the best burst generation with consumables (carow + blunderbus), good initial alpha and best dps when in melee. However melee is not as safe as with pike. Ruffian is still the pick for solo cipher imo.

 

3. Adventurer with warbow - This is the best steady focus generation option without engaging in melee. It will do better than ranged Soldier/Ruffian options in the long run. Melee option here would be estoc, which is decent, but not as good as dual sabres/stilettos overall and not as safe as pike.

 

Some back-of-the-napkin math I did after 1.05 suggests that pistol/blunderbuss does more damage than the war bow even accounting for attack rate, provided you have the Gunner talent. That said, the starting focus nerf on Ciphers makes Greater Focus a much more tempting option (especially early), and a gun-using Cipher will have difficulty fitting that into their build, which is a good argument for using the war bow.

Well, if this spreadsheet is correct gunner is not enough to pull firearms ahead in terms of dps. You'll need smth like swift aim for it.

[JONNIN]

Noble exists IMHO to allow a character to specialize heavily into implements.  And its useless for anything else.  

[Kaigen42]

@MadDemiurg: Well, like I said, it was some rough math, and I was specifically comparing Dulcanale/Lead Splitter to Cloudpiercer without taking accuracy (or crits) into account, so it's probable that my numbers are off by a bit.

 

Edit: I played around with that spreadsheet a bit. Assuming 20 Dex, 2 damage mod (30% Exceptional Weapon, 40% Biting Whip, 30% Might 20 = +100%), -0.2 attack speed (Penetrating Shot), 1.2 reload mod (Gunner), and 8 DR bypass (Penetrating Shot and Rending) average DPS across weapon types is WB 6.18; BB 6.86; Pistol 5.19. Looking at the DPS vs. DR chart, Lead Splitter leads over Cloudpiercer at DR values less than 17, while Dulcanale outperforms Cloudpiercer at DR values over 16. This doesn't account for Cloudpiercer's 1/encounter Jolting Touch, but it also doesn't account for Dulcanale's Annihilation property.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Kaigen42

[cctobias]

Hunting bows seem like good interrupt weapons, they have fast speed/average interrupt and with a ranger you can also add stunning shots to that as well.

 

With ranged attackers though I'd probably just skip weapon specialization though and take marksman instead.

 

Peasant might be a good tank specialization.  Hatchet for defense, spear for accuracy and for some of the interesting uniques like Cladhaliath or Danulya.  I had Durance take it once so he could his staff better.

 For interrupt wands and sceptres are same as hunting bow.

 

Also my experience with hunting bows is that very large hit you take due to DT is not worth the modest improvement in interrupt, just use a crossbow in stead.  Good Friend is a great xbow since its Coordinating.

[Wolken3156]

the +20% elemental damage is too situational to pick.

Lets take a look at the most commonly spammed and used Druid spells!

 

Sunbeam, Burst of Summer Flame, Firebug, and Sunlance! We can all agree these are top tier spells among the Druid's arsenal.

 

Now what do they all have in common?

 

The others though, yeah it would probably depend on your playstyle. I personally love Returning Storm and Relentless Storm so I end up grabbing Heart of the Storm. Others might not even like them at all and would pass over the talent. At any rate, they're not situational if you get the ones based on the spells you end up using the most frequently, and believe me. I'm almost certain everyone spams the Druid's delightful fiery spells.

 

I will agree on you with Bonus Spells though. They are not even worth the talent slot, since their value gets diminished further and further as your choices of destruction continue to expand. By 9th-level, they're virtually useless since the Druid's 1st level spells are more than enough to annihilate the common cannon fodder encounters anyway. As for major fights, if you need more than four 4th-level or higher spells to nova a target down, you're probably not choosing the right spells at all.

[MadDemiurg]

@MadDemiurg: Well, like I said, it was some rough math, and I was specifically comparing Dulcanale/Lead Splitter to Cloudpiercer without taking accuracy (or crits) into account, so it's probable that my numbers are off by a bit.

 

Edit: I played around with that spreadsheet a bit. Assuming 20 Dex, 2 damage mod (30% Exceptional Weapon, 40% Biting Whip, 30% Might 20 = +100%), -0.2 attack speed (Penetrating Shot), 1.2 reload mod (Gunner), and 8 DR bypass (Penetrating Shot and Rending) average DPS across weapon types is WB 6.18; BB 6.86; Pistol 5.19. Looking at the DPS vs. DR chart, Lead Splitter leads over Cloudpiercer at DR values less than 17, while Dulcanale outperforms Cloudpiercer at DR values over 16. This doesn't account for Cloudpiercer's 1/encounter Jolting Touch, but it also doesn't account for Dulcanale's Annihilation property.

Well, blunderbuss has an accuracy malus and hit chances in the spreadsheet are fairly optimistic for PotD, at least if you're not always shooting paralyzed targets. You can see that higher deflection hurts BB more by entering an accuracy malus. Also, with superb weapons and rending WB seems to actually do more damage without penetrating shot on average. But yeah, it's pretty close overall. And I wasn't looking at particular weapons, just weapon types in general.

Edited May 28, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[Crucis]

 

@MadDemiurg: Well, like I said, it was some rough math, and I was specifically comparing Dulcanale/Lead Splitter to Cloudpiercer without taking accuracy (or crits) into account, so it's probable that my numbers are off by a bit.

 

Edit: I played around with that spreadsheet a bit. Assuming 20 Dex, 2 damage mod (30% Exceptional Weapon, 40% Biting Whip, 30% Might 20 = +100%), -0.2 attack speed (Penetrating Shot), 1.2 reload mod (Gunner), and 8 DR bypass (Penetrating Shot and Rending) average DPS across weapon types is WB 6.18; BB 6.86; Pistol 5.19. Looking at the DPS vs. DR chart, Lead Splitter leads over Cloudpiercer at DR values less than 17, while Dulcanale outperforms Cloudpiercer at DR values over 16. This doesn't account for Cloudpiercer's 1/encounter Jolting Touch, but it also doesn't account for Dulcanale's Annihilation property.

Well, blunderbuss has an accuracy malus and hit chances in the spreadsheet are fairly optimistic for PotD, at least if you're not always shooting paralyzed targets. You can see that higher deflection hurts BB more by entering an accuracy malus. Also, with superb weapons and rending WB seems to actually do more damage without penetrating shot on average. But yeah, it's pretty close overall. And I wasn't looking at particular weapons, just weapon types in general.

 

 

Speaking of BB's, one of the things that annoys me about them is that the game just won't tell you how much damage you did.  Over the character, it displays how much each of the 6 (?) pellets did, but those numbers tend to overwrite each other and not be readable.  And in the combat window, all it says is "X grazes, Y hits, Z crits".  I wish that it'd append "for XX damage" to that grazes/hits/crits message, because it is annoying to not have a clear message telling you how much damage you REALLY did with your BB shot.

 

/end mini-rant.

 

[MadDemiurg]

 

 

@MadDemiurg: Well, like I said, it was some rough math, and I was specifically comparing Dulcanale/Lead Splitter to Cloudpiercer without taking accuracy (or crits) into account, so it's probable that my numbers are off by a bit.

 

Edit: I played around with that spreadsheet a bit. Assuming 20 Dex, 2 damage mod (30% Exceptional Weapon, 40% Biting Whip, 30% Might 20 = +100%), -0.2 attack speed (Penetrating Shot), 1.2 reload mod (Gunner), and 8 DR bypass (Penetrating Shot and Rending) average DPS across weapon types is WB 6.18; BB 6.86; Pistol 5.19. Looking at the DPS vs. DR chart, Lead Splitter leads over Cloudpiercer at DR values less than 17, while Dulcanale outperforms Cloudpiercer at DR values over 16. This doesn't account for Cloudpiercer's 1/encounter Jolting Touch, but it also doesn't account for Dulcanale's Annihilation property.

Well, blunderbuss has an accuracy malus and hit chances in the spreadsheet are fairly optimistic for PotD, at least if you're not always shooting paralyzed targets. You can see that higher deflection hurts BB more by entering an accuracy malus. Also, with superb weapons and rending WB seems to actually do more damage without penetrating shot on average. But yeah, it's pretty close overall. And I wasn't looking at particular weapons, just weapon types in general.

 

 

Speaking of BB's, one of the things that annoys me about them is that the game just won't tell you how much damage you did.  Over the character, it displays how much each of the 6 (?) pellets did, but those numbers tend to overwrite each other and not be readable.  And in the combat window, all it says is "X grazes, Y hits, Z crits".  I wish that it'd append "for XX damage" to that grazes/hits/crits message, because it is annoying to not have a clear message telling you how much damage you REALLY did with your BB shot.

 

/end mini-rant.

 

You can click on the log entry and it will expand showing how much damage each shot did.

[peddroelm]

 

 

You can click on the log entry and it will expand showing how much damage each shot did.

 

and notice something like this

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzrAzAPWkbk

[Zwiebelchen]

 

the +20% elemental damage is too situational to pick.

Lets take a look at the most commonly spammed and used Druid spells!

 

Sunbeam, Burst of Summer Flame, Firebug, and Sunlance! We can all agree these are top tier spells among the Druid's arsenal.

 

Now what do they all have in common?

 

The others though, yeah it would probably depend on your playstyle. I personally love Returning Storm and Relentless Storm so I end up grabbing Heart of the Storm. Others might not even like them at all and would pass over the talent. At any rate, they're not situational if you get the ones based on the spells you end up using the most frequently, and believe me. I'm almost certain everyone spams the Druid's delightful fiery spells.

 

I will agree on you with Bonus Spells though. They are not even worth the talent slot, since their value gets diminished further and further as your choices of destruction continue to expand. By 9th-level, they're virtually useless since the Druid's 1st level spells are more than enough to annihilate the common cannon fodder encounters anyway. As for major fights, if you need more than four 4th-level or higher spells to nova a target down, you're probably not choosing the right spells at all.

 

 

You're just assuming spell choices out of your own preference. Yes, I used Sunbeam quite a lot; but Talon's Reach is also comparable on first level and actually faster to cast. Burst of Summer flame actually does very low damage in a small radius. I don't get why anyone would ever use that over the other much better second level spells like Blizzard and Autumns Decay. Also, Insect Swarm and Woodskin are at the same level. I never used Firebug, as Relentless storm and Plague of Insects have a much better return of investment, with the latter actually dealing a sick amount of raw damage over time in a huge area and the former to not only deal huge damage, but also stunning on every hit.

And by the time you reach 6th level spells, you will probably rather end up summoning a greater blight or use Venom Blood for the raw damage.

 

So, no taking the fire talent is absolutely not a no-brainer.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Zwiebelchen

[Wolken3156]

You're just assuming spell choices out of your own preference.

I suppose I am, but I've seen enough people praising the said spells. Well maybe not Burst. I only tossed Burst in, because honestly, Blizzard is just awful with the nerf.

 

I never used Firebug, as Relentless storm and Plague of Insects have a much better return of investment, with the latter actually dealing a sick amount of raw damage over time in a huge area and the former to not only deal huge damage, but also stunning on every hit.

You're missing out. Relentless Storm actually has great synergy with Firebug since Storm can stun, lowering the deflection of enemies. With the lowered Deflection you can make Firebug score plenty of crits, making it deal some impressive damage.

 

I actually don't like Plague of Insects, since it targets Fort and is damage over time. Targeting Fort makes it nearly useless in PotD where enemies are packing Fort scores of around 100 or more. The same goes for Venombloom, which if anything is even worse than Plague, since it deals less damage, and inflicts afflictions that can be gotten from other lower level spells which more importantly, don't target Fort.

[Kaigen42]

I actually don't like Plague of Insects, since it targets Fort and is damage over time. Targeting Fort makes it nearly useless in PotD where enemies are packing Fort scores of around 100 or more. The same goes for Venombloom, which if anything is even worse than Plague, since it deals less damage, and inflicts afflictions that can be gotten from other lower level spells which more importantly, don't target Fort.

 

I don't think it makes sense to pan Druid spells purely because they target Fort. I mean, it's not like you're a Wizard who has to worry about Fort-targeting spells taking up too much space in your grimoire. Plague of Insects is awesome because it deals raw damage, massively debuffs Concentration while being a DoT (meaning it can take advantage of its own debuff to interrupt more), and also applies a steep debuff to Will and Fort. Even if 70% of the time you're fighting enemies for whom Fort is the highest defense, it's a fantastic spell to have around that other 30% of the time, especially for fights against spirits and Vithrack, who all have Fort as their lowest defense.

[Omnicron]

A bit divided on what weapon focus for my Barbarian (party front line). Ruffian will probably be the most damage with dual sabres, but there is something very appealing about Tidefall on her

[MadDemiurg]

For barb you also should consider on hit effects. For example, tall grass pike has prone on crit and 10% hit to crit meaning that 10% hits will cause an aoe knockdown.

[Crucis]

For barb you also should consider on hit effects. For example, tall grass pike has prone on crit and 10% hit to crit meaning that 10% hits will cause an aoe knockdown.

 

Tidefall has a draining effect that heals its wielder.  Would that mean that it'd have a AoE drain?  That could be one pile of healing for the barb!

 

(IIRC, it may also have a wounding effect as well.)

[Omnicron]

For barb you also should consider on hit effects. For example, tall grass pike has prone on crit and 10% hit to crit meaning that 10% hits will cause an aoe knockdown.

 Soldier looks pretty good then

 

Tidefall: Draining & Wounding

Hours of St. Rumbal : Prone

Tall Grass: Prone

Strike Hard: Disorientating

Godansthunyr: Stun  

Edited May 30, 2015 by Omnicron

[Kaigen42]

 

For barb you also should consider on hit effects. For example, tall grass pike has prone on crit and 10% hit to crit meaning that 10% hits will cause an aoe knockdown.

 Soldier looks pretty good then

 

Tidefall: Draining & Wounding

Hours of St. Rumbal : Prone

Tall Grass: Prone

Strike Hard: Disorientating

 

You can have fun with that all over;

 

Adventurer: The White Spire (Estoc, Disorienting), Half-Mast (Pollaxe, Prone), Gaun's Share (Flail, Draining), and Starcaller (Flail, Stunning, Spell-Striking)

Noble: Drawn in Spring (Dagger, Wounding), Mosquito (Rapier, Draining)

Ruffian: Azureith's Stiletto (Spell-Striking), Oidhreacht (Stiletto, Draining), Blesca's Labor (Club, Draining), and Purgatory (Sabre, Draining) 

 

And a personal favorite, Peasant: The Vile Loner's Lance (Spear, Disorienting) and Cladhaliath (Spear, Stunning)

[Crucis]

For barb you also should consider on hit effects. For example, tall grass pike has prone on crit and 10% hit to crit meaning that 10% hits will cause an aoe knockdown.

 

Another thought regarding barbarians and the Tall Grass pike.  Unless perhaps you're playing solo, I don't think that I'd give the Tall Grass pike to a frontliner.  It's such a good extended reach weapon that I'd save it for a backliner that you could have come up and use Tall Grass from behind the melee wall.  Ciphers (like GM) or even Rogues might be a good choice here. 

 

Let the normal frontliners use the normal range melee weapons, and save the extended range weapons for softer support characters who can assist the frontliners. 

 

Just a thought.

[MadDemiurg]

Who said barb is a frotliner though ?. With max might/dex/int build many seem to prefer he's just as squishy as any dpser. It's a pretty good rogue weapon too since rogues crit often, but they lack the aoe knockdown capability it brings with barb. For cipher it isn't much different from any other pike/quarterstaff tbh (ciphers can crit often too with mental binding and tactical meld, but knocking down paralyzed targets is kinda pointless).

[Crucis]

Who said barb is a frotliner though ?. With max might/dex/int build many seem to prefer he's just as squishy as any dpser. It's a pretty good rogue weapon too since rogues crit often, but they lack the aoe knockdown capability it brings with barb. For cipher it isn't much different from any other pike/quarterstaff tbh (ciphers can crit often too with mental binding and tactical meld, but knocking down paralyzed targets is kinda pointless).

 

Mad, I was less concerned about its prone ability than the fact that it's an excellent pike and ciphers do occasionally need to recharge their focus.  And there will be times in battles when it may be more advantageous for a backline cipher to put aside its ranged weapon, and use a pike to support the front liners, while working to recharge that focus pool.

 

Speaking of Tactical Meld, is that power really worth taking and using?  I guess that I've tended to take more offensive nuking powers or those that charm/paralyze/whatever the enemy.  Also, it seems like a lot of focus points to spend to simply charge up the cipher for physical combat.... focus points that you'll just have to turn around and re-earn while under the Tac Meld.

 

I will admit that there are other good pikes around that can be worth enhancing.  But there don't seem to be nearly enough decent quarterstaffs.  There are only two that are ok.  Wend Walker, which is excellent, but you get very late.  And Llawran's Stick, which you get early in the Endless paths.  But the Stick is flawed because it's only mod is "Speed", which currently doesn't work, so right now, it's effectively no better than a generic Fine Qstaff.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Crucis