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peddroelm

Trancendent Suffering +accuracy doesn't apply to monk "special attacks"(torment's reach AOE, rooting pain AOE..) but accuracy from weapons enchan does

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Hey peddroelm,

 

I checked out what you were saying and the accuracy from Transcendent Suffering is applying to Torment's Reach but not to Rooting Pain. Could you please upload a save file along with an output log via Dropbox and post the link here? 

 

Thanks a bunch! 


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Hey peddroelm,

 

I checked out what you were saying and the accuracy from Transcendent Suffering is applying to Torment's Reach but not to Rooting Pain. Could you please upload a save file along with an output log via Dropbox and post the link here? 

 

Thanks a bunch! 

torment's reach has 2 components .. The main attack (vs deflection) which will benefit from TS and the cone AOE attacks that target reflex (title specifically nominates the aoe component) .. Those will not benefit form TS.. Again any monk save will do .. 


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Aarik D could you repro?

 

If not, I'll try to create a saved game and repro steps.

Edited by AndreaColombo

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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Hey AndreaColombo,

 

If you could upload a save file along with an output log and a screenshot, that would be fantastic!

 

Thanks a bunch!


Whats this at obsidian.net?

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updated with latest findings

 

SAVED GAME: link

 

OUTPUT LOG: link

 

 

REPRO STEPS:

Load the attached saved game.

Select the Monk and access its character sheet; observe that his unarmed Accuracy is 62 (54 base, +8 Transcendent Suffering.)

Pause the game and use a console command to summon two hostile creatures (e.g. BSC cre_blight_earth 1 and BSC cre_blight_wind 1)

Make sure the armored dearth godlike engages both, then select the Monk and use Mortification of the Soul to gain a Wound.

Flank one of the creatures in a way that the cone from Torment's Reach would hit both.

Use Torment's Reach, then pause the game and check the details of your attack in the combat log.

 

First attack strikes at 62 (54 base, +8 Transcendent Suffering.) This is correct.

Second attack strikes at 63 (54 base, +9 bonus from level.) Transcendent Suffering is not applied; bonus from level is undocumented.

 

YP9tutA.png

bXl1kBB.png

 

 

Transcendent Suffering should apply to the AOE of Torment's Reach.

The Accuracy bonus to the AOE from the Monk's level should be documented in the ability's description and in its tooltip.

Edited by AndreaColombo
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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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Anything that helps unarmed monks is a good thing, and I hope this gets fixed soon-ish. Especially before the expansion, when we get an actual Monk.


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If you're right, you're contradicting some of the OP post .. 

 

It's been a while since I've played PoE but from what I recall the to hit checks for torment's reach main and cone attacks use different formulas (AOE cone gets a little extra accuracy per char level from being special attack) so the accuracy for the main attack should most of the time be different from the accuracy for the cone attacks.. 

 

EDIT:  from old post of mine

 

25-25 torment's reach "weapon"
30% might
dual wield unique battle axes Edge of Reason & We Toki
 
25 * (1 + 0.3 - 0.5) == 20 // graze savage attack as predicted - not working for "magic weapons"
25 * (1 + 0.3 + 0.5 + 0.5) == 57.5 // crit  The Bonus damage on crits for Battle Axes transfers to TR crits 
25 * (1 + 0.3) == 32.5 // hit  
 
Accuracy from Transcendent Suffering doesn't apply to Torment's reach AOE chance to hit - but the accuracy enchantment from (superb/excellent) weapons did .
 
73 accuracy TR AOE with fist  // level 10 monk +12 accuracy to fist did not transfer to TR AOE
85 accuracy TR AOE with Blade of Endless Paths (superb weapon) 73 + 12
87 accuracy TR AOE with We Toki ( knight weapon focus + excellent weapon ) 73 + 6 + 8
91 accuracy TR AOE with Edge of Reason ( knight weapon focus + superb weapon ) 73 + 6 + 12
94 accuracy TR AOE with We Toki ( knight weapon focus + excellent weapon + fighting spirit ) 73 + 6 + 8 + 7
98 accuracy TR AOE with Edge of Reason ( knight weapon focus + superb weapon + fighting spirit ) 73 + 6 + 12 + 7
 

///////

 

30  +  9 * 3 + 1 * 10 = 67 <> 73

30  +  9 * 3 + 1*10 + 12 = 79  <> 73

 

Don't recall the level of the monk used in the above test ( 10 / 12 but the numbers don't seem to fit  (73 accuracy) either way)

Edited by peddroelm

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It's because the monk in the save is 8th level, so the level bonus coincides with the transcendent suffering bonus, thus accuracy appears the same.

 

Anyway, how's this thing even work exactly?

 

The primary targets gets full-attacked with a 50% crush lash, right?

And then the others are attacked with "secondary effect" type of thing, like the blindness part of a rogue's blinding strike, so the character's level gets added to the accuracy. And here's the inconsistency. It takes into account weapon accuracy bonuses if you have an enchanted weapon equipped, but not transcendent suffering bonus when you have your "enchanted fists" equipped. Not sure which is supposed to be correct, but as it is now it's definitely wrong.

 

If I look at blast (mechanically the same thing right?), that one uses the full bonus for the AoE, so I'd guess that the accuracy from transcendent suffering shold indeed apply for the TR AoE attacks, too.

 

Btw the damage is what, some arbitrary number? Or is it somehow related to unarmed damage?

Edited by Sabotin

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OK, got it.

 

So, Torment's Reach AOE gets an Accuracy bonus equal to the Monk's level which is completely undocumented (not even the ability's tooltip says it will be there) and Transcendent Suffering is indeed not applying to it.

 

Here are my tests with the same Monk leveled up to 9.

 

No Weapon Focus. My Monk's unarmed Accuracy is 62 (54 base, +8 Transcendent Suffering):

 

Op7Smih.png

 

My Torment's Reach attacks were as follows:

 

YP9tutA.png

bXl1kBB.png

 

 

First attack gets the Transcendent Suffering bonus at strikes at 62.

Cone gets +9 from my being a 9th-level Monk but no Transcendent Suffering, and strikes at 63 (54 base, +9 from level) instead of 71 (54 base, +9 from level, +8 Transcendent Suffering.)

 

 

When I equip Justice (Fine Great Sword), my Accuracy goes to 58 (54 base, +4 Fine enchantment):

 

EV9D0vP.png

 

My Torment's Reach attacks:

 

ZwFAcxJ.png

UPP71ec.png

 

First attack strikes at 58, which is correct as Torment's Reach is stated to be a Full Attack and therefore employs the bonus from whatever weapon is equipped.

Second attack strikes at 67 (54 base, +4 Fine enchantment, +9 from level) which is also correct.

 

I'm going to edit my other post to reflect these information.

Edited by AndreaColombo

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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@ Sabotin  torment's reach cone attack has 15-25 base damage .

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78264-torments-reach-mechanics/

 

Is a special attack (gets the extra accuracy per char level)  , most of the weapon damage mods don't apply to it (savage attack, fighting spirit)  - but surprisingly the 50% on crit from battle axes does (didn't check annihilation mod on unique sabres), checks against reflex for hit resolution ,  doesn't benefit from transcendent suffering damage or accuracy - but will benefit from   other accuracy sources ( weapon enchantment  (why weapon monks >>> fist monks at torment's reach spam) , fighting spirit, weapon focus ,   )

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78264-torments-reach-mechanics/page-2?do=findComment&comment=1691372


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Hello everyone,

 

I apologize for the delay. Transcendent Suffering only applies the accuracy bonus to the primary target from Torment's Reach.  Transcendent Suffering does not apply to AOE attacks. Since Rooting Pain and the secondary cone attack from Torment's Reach  is an AOE attack, the accuracy bonus will not be added.

 

Thank you for your patience and support!


Whats this at obsidian.net?

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Aarik,

 

thanks for clarifying.

 

However, an issue remains: If I am wielding an enchanted weapon, the bonus Accuracy and Damage from its enchanted quality will apply to both the primary and secondary target of Torment's Reach. Consequently, a Monk that wields a weapon is always going to be superior to a Monk that doesn't, which is sort of counter intuitive.

 

Could you inquire whether this behavior is intended? If it is intended, could you bring it to Josh's attention as a matter of balance?

 

Thanks!


"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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Hey Aarik,

 

could you get any feedback on the above?

 

Apologies for chasing, but since we're getting a Monk companion in The White March, I figured this would relevant ;)


"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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Hey AndreaColombo, 

 

The enchanted weapon is working as intended in regards of applying accuracy and damage for the primary target for Torment's reach, but those bonuses should not apply for the secondary AOE attack. So I went ahead and entered the bug into our database.

 

Thanks guys! Keep up the good work!

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