[Balance] Gaze of the Adragan spell / Petrification

[Kefky]

I wasn't complaining. I was just stating that it doesnt make sense people shouting for balance for spells in a single player game where they can choose to have those spells or not. If this were a mmorpg or a game with pvp that balance would make sense, since it isnt it makes no sense whatsoever. Basically you want the game bland, where all classes are exactly the same? Take the bg series, spellcasters were puny compared to warriors at early levels, and at much much later levels spellcasters were powerhouses and warriors although not with such a high potential were very solid. The fun of the game was knowing the different strengths of classes at different stages and feeling unique with your class. 

 

Please stop making strawman arguments. I've never said anything like that. Not wanting autowin buttons is not the same as making the game bland. Also, Obsidian doesn't seem to agree with you, seeing how they've been balancing the game since it came out.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Kefky

[MadDemiurg]

On a more serious note:

 

Rogue's deathblows allows you to do 200% extra damage to a target with 2 afflictions 1 of which does not even require you to beat any saving throw. This is clearly too much, bosses should be immune to it! Oh, and priest can give crazy stat bonuses with buffs. Let's make all buffs automatically dispelled when fighting a boss.

 

The mentality of bosses being immune to CC is BROKEN. CC abilities are already at a disadvantage compared to buffs/passives since they need to beat saves. They need to be more powerful to compensate. i wouldn't mind placing a priest near some bosses who is scripted to cast prayer against imprisonment (which you'll need to wait out or figure out how to kill the priest first). But giving bosses CC immunity - just no. Also, thankfully most tough fights are not about beating just 1 tough mob in PoE, so you need more than just gaze to win. And many tough mobs have really high fortitude, which you can beat, but you need to know how. And once you start optimizing, you'll discover many other ways to win just as easy.

[Kefky]

On a more serious note:

 

Rogue's deathblows allows you to do 200% extra damage to a target with 2 afflictions 1 of which does not even require you to beat any saving throw. This is clearly too much, bosses should be immune to it! Oh, and priest can give crazy stat bonuses with buffs. Let's make all buffs automatically dispelled when fighting a boss.

 

The mentality of bosses being immune to CC is BROKEN. CC abilities are already at a disadvantage compared to buffs/passives since they need to beat saves. They need to be more powerful to compensate. i wouldn't mind placing a priest near some bosses who is scripted to cast prayer against imprisonment (which you'll need to wait out or figure out how to kill the priest first). But giving bosses CC immunity - just no. Also, thankfully most tough fights are not about beating just 1 tough mob in PoE, so you need more than just gaze to win. And many tough mobs have really high fortitude, which you can beat, but you need to know how. And once you start optimizing, you'll discover many other ways to win just as easy.

 

The problem is that the bosses' saves are laughable. I've never missed a gaze in PoTD, and that's using Aloth and not a custom, optimized wizard. In BG2, for example, f you wanted to kill or otherwise cripple a superboss (let's say Firkraag) with a spell like Finger of Death, you needed to cast 3 or 4 save-lowering debuffs first, just to have a chance of it sticking.

[MadDemiurg]

 

On a more serious note:

 

Rogue's deathblows allows you to do 200% extra damage to a target with 2 afflictions 1 of which does not even require you to beat any saving throw. This is clearly too much, bosses should be immune to it! Oh, and priest can give crazy stat bonuses with buffs. Let's make all buffs automatically dispelled when fighting a boss.

 

The mentality of bosses being immune to CC is BROKEN. CC abilities are already at a disadvantage compared to buffs/passives since they need to beat saves. They need to be more powerful to compensate. i wouldn't mind placing a priest near some bosses who is scripted to cast prayer against imprisonment (which you'll need to wait out or figure out how to kill the priest first). But giving bosses CC immunity - just no. Also, thankfully most tough fights are not about beating just 1 tough mob in PoE, so you need more than just gaze to win. And many tough mobs have really high fortitude, which you can beat, but you need to know how. And once you start optimizing, you'll discover many other ways to win just as easy.

 

The problem is that the bosses' saves are laughable. I've never missed a gaze in PoTD, and that's using Aloth and not a custom, optimized wizard. In BG2, for example, f you wanted to kill or otherwise cripple a superboss (let's say Firkraag) with a spell like Finger of Death, you needed to cast 3 or 4 save-lowering debuffs first, just to have a chance of it sticking.

 

Adra dragon fort is 133 on PotD i think. Aloth's accuracy is 80 with gaze (since he's an elf), and there are no talents or stats that increase it, so it doesn't matter that he's not optimized. If you know how attack rolls work, it's easy to see he can only hope to graze with that accuracy, and will mostly miss. The dragon sports a -20 accuracy aura as well, which you need to counter. Now if you use eldritch aim, devotions from priest and rotfinger gloves/interdiction you'll bring him into the high hit chance territory. But here you go, 3-4 spells you're talking about. So maybe you're extremely lucky or smth.

Edited May 10, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[majestic]

So maybe you're extremely lucky or smth.

 

 

More like full of hyperbole sprinkled with a helping of having no clue, considering how he talks of always hitting with Gaze even on PotD with Aloth the "non-optimized" wizard, as if custom wizards would have better accuracy.

 

Also, slaying Firkraag with Finger of Death for instance isn't nearly as hard as he makes it out to be, depending on your party makup that fight is over in 6 to 18 seconds, especially if you're at a level where you can cast Finger of Death already. You only need to stack Doom & (Greater) Malison if you want to pull off a sucessful one-shot kill with Chromatic Orb at level 12 because that has an annoying +4 bonus to the save, but even that doesn't take that long.

 

As for making it harder to deal with trash mobs because a spell somehow hurts the sensibilities of someone who considers it a cheat, dear god, it's boring enough to to deal with certain areas of the game. Please, for crying out loud, think of the children. And my nerves. Post 1.05 Gaze has been fondled enough.

Edited May 10, 2015 by majestic

[Kefky]

So because I didn't know how spell accuracy works exactly in this game (not that you need to know the rules, seeing how easy the game is) my arguments are invalid? Right

 

It's not hyperbole. I've only used the spell 5 times, against both dragons and the final encounter, and all 5 of them have hit.

 

Also, I don't see any duration nerf. I just beat the final boss again by petrifying them for 14 seconds.

 

And an optimized mage would have an even longer duration, so that even a graze would be deadly.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Kefky

[MadDemiurg]

Your agruments are invalid because gaze does not have enough hit chance vs most tough enemies without several buffs and/or debuffs.

 

You hit all the time because:

a) You're extremely lucky and roll only 100s. I'd buy a lottery ticket.

b) You're not playing PotD (although on Normal/Hard it still won't hit as often without extra effort)

c) Your game is glitched

d) You're not hitting all the rime really

 

Also, duration was halved. A hit would've been closer to 30 sec on a high int wiz in 1.04.

Edited May 10, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[Kefky]

Your agruments are invalid because gaze does not have enough hit chance vs most tough enemies without several buffs and/or debuffs.

 

You hit all the time because:

a) You're extremely lucky and roll only 100s. I'd buy a lottery ticket.

b) You're not playing PotD (although on Normal/Hard it still won't hit as often without extra effort)

c) Your game is glitched

d) You're not hitting all the rime really

 

Also, duration was halved. A hit would've been closer to 30 sec on a high int wiz in 1.04.

 

Ah, that explains it. It must have been grazes all along, but they were enough to kill the enemies.

[LeonKowalski]

Some monsters should have immunity, but humanoids generally should not ...

 

For NPCs we need better AI and massively better buff/removal abilities.

Edited May 11, 2015 by LeonKowalski

[IrithylStarym]

 

I wasn't complaining. I was just stating that it doesnt make sense people shouting for balance for spells in a single player game where they can choose to have those spells or not. If this were a mmorpg or a game with pvp that balance would make sense, since it isnt it makes no sense whatsoever. Basically you want the game bland, where all classes are exactly the same? Take the bg series, spellcasters were puny compared to warriors at early levels, and at much much later levels spellcasters were powerhouses and warriors although not with such a high potential were very solid. The fun of the game was knowing the different strengths of classes at different stages and feeling unique with your class. 

 

Please stop making strawman arguments. I've never said anything like that. Not wanting autowin buttons is not the same as making the game bland. Also, Obsidian doesn't seem to agree with you, seeing how they've been balancing the game since it came out.

 

Of course they have been "balancing" since people like you have been shouting so loud.

Also, funny how you hate "I win" buttons but you have never missed a gaze, meaning that you are using the one "I win" button to win instead of countless other spells and abilities at your disposal.

My bet is that you are a troll that either hates wizard and wants them nerfed just because, or you are here just for arguments sake.

Edited May 11, 2015 by IrithylStarym

[Kefky]

Yes, everyone who does not agree with you is a troll.

 

I used it on those bosses just to see if it worked, after losing a couple of times against them. It grazed them for 14 seconds and I killed them in 5. It is (or at least was) broken no matter how you look at it.

[CynicalP]

All I know is I have stopped playing after the 1.1 patch and I am waiting until Obsidian is finished balancing.  Nothing is more frustrating when skills, spells , and  items that change mid-way thru a game when you rely on those skills, spells, and items for certain strategies to work.

 

I am definitely in the camp of players that think nerfing is wrong in single player games especially once the game has been released out into the public.  All those overpowered skills and spells should have been worked out in the beta prior to game release.  

 

To me since there is a solo achievement in the game the only measure of balance should be every class should have the  skills/spell necessary  to solo the game. If there was no solo achievement then whatever mix of classes should have a reasonable shot of achieving success.

[Kefky]

I am definitely in the camp of players that think nerfing is wrong in single player games especially once the game has been released out into the public.  All those overpowered skills and spells should have been worked out in the beta prior to game release.  

 

Yes, but they weren't, just like the hundreds of bugs.

 

Anyway, I'm just going to stop arguing about this. When I started this thread I didn't know the patch notes were incomplete and the duration had been nerfed as well. It's probably a very powerful but not overpowered spell now, so it's fine.

[LeonKowalski]

Solo'ing relies on broken AI for the most part, so they aren't allowed to fix the AI either?

 

I personally would applaud if the tripple crown solo became plain impossible without outright cheating, then the game might finally get sufficient difficulty.

Edited May 11, 2015 by LeonKowalski

[Luzeryn]

It's hilarious that some people feel so ofended by someone who just wants more difficulty in a game that has 4 difficulty modes. If you don't want that just play on an easier difficulty and let people who want an actual challenge discuss the problems with the game balance.

[majestic]

Solo'ing relies on broken AI for the most part, so they aren't allowed to fix the AI either?

 

 

Oh boy, there we go with the non sequitur.

[SparocheeDoom]

WHERE do you get this spell???

[majestic]

WHERE do you get this spell???

 

You pick it when leveling up your wizard or copy them from a grimoire, if it is available in one, I'm not really sure. I stopped bothering with copying spells after figuring out which ones work well and you can choose enough of the worthwhile ones to easily get you through the game.

 

Ah, who am I kidding, spells come from the land where happy spells bunny hop across lush meadows and magic trees rise in the distance while the glaring rays of daylight wash over you.

Edited May 14, 2015 by majestic

[3dartwork]

I just want to thank whomever spoke up on this to be nerfed because now I can't beat Thaos.  Gaze was literally the only way I could beat him needing 14 seconds to take out the judges.  Now I have no way of doing it, I have died about 20 times against him, and I would really like to play PE2 with my complete game....which I can't acquire now.