1.0.5 Marked Prey's fix/nerf from 40% to 20% isn't savegame retroactive

[peddroelm]

Tested this while testing the animal companion damage talents ..

 

"

Activated marked prey

30.6 slash + 4.4 pierce  // crit    30.6 * 0.4 - 7 *0.25 = 10.49 != 4.4      // 30.6 * 0.2 - 7 * 0.25 = 4.37

23.1 slash + 2.9 pierce // hit     (23.1 * 0.4 - 7*0.25) = 7.49 != 2.9  (very different) // 23.1 * 0.2 - 7*0.25 = 2.87

 

So marked prey only adds 20% lash damage to AC vs 25% DR ..

 

Sneaky suspicion .. 

18.7 * 0.2 - 7*0.25  ==  2.0

This was Ranger attack 

"

So my conclusion was that in 1.05 Marked Prey bonus was lowered down to 20% from 40%..

But then this morning new beta patch update 1.0.5.0565

 

marked prey test vs gul (0 DR)

20.4 + 8.1     ( 40% )  ?!!?

 

Did you change Marked Prey's bonus value from 40% down to 20% and then back to 40% in 565 ?(doesn't sound very likely) .. Is this inconsistent behavior (ability will sometimes for unknown reasons only provide 20% bonus )  ?  Measuring error from my part ?

 

 

1.0.5.0567

23.6 * 0.4 - 18 * 0.25 == 4.9 still at 40%

Edited May 8, 2015 by peddroelm

[peddroelm]

think I've managed to figure out what's with Marked Prey's inconsistent test results  ..

 

New 1.05.0.567 game

Made solo ranger attacks and combined (ranger + Animal companion vs marked target) ( considered they might be splitting the bonus when attacking same target) .. Invariably the bonus was 20%

 

14.2  (4 DR) 1.8 // 14.2 * 0.2 - 4 * 0.25 = 1.84

14.6  (4 DR) 1.9 // 14.6 * 0.2 - 4 * 0.25 = 1.92

15.8  (4 DR) 2.2 // 15.8 * 0.2 - 4 * 0.25 = 2.16

 7.8   (4 DR) 0.6 // 7.8 * 0.2 - 4 * 0.25 = 0.56

10.6  (4 DR) 1.1 // 10.6 * 0.2 - 4 * 0.25 = 1.12

 

Then I loaded an older save - game started before 1.05

 

23.7 (4 DR) 8.5    // 23.7 * 0.4 - 4 * 0.25 = 8.48

40%

 

Mystery solved . Marked Prey's nerf from 40% to 20%  isn't savegame retroactive ..

Edited May 8, 2015 by peddroelm

[Luckmann]

Wasn't it always supposed to be 20%?

 

Also, incredibly frustrating if it's not retroactive, because it means that I'll have to restart my ranger, if I can be bothered.

[peddroelm]

Wasn't it always supposed to be 20%?

 

Also, incredibly frustrating if it's not retroactive, because it means that I'll have to restart my ranger, if I can be bothered.

It probably was supposed to be 20% (since 1.05 changed it to 20% and claims it now works as intended )  but in 1.03 & 1.04 it was 40% .. My testing with 1 older save show the "fix" isn't savegame retroactive ...

 

Easy to test for your savegame - you only need to check combat log for 1 attack vs a marked prey target ..

[Luckmann]

 

Wasn't it always supposed to be 20%?

 

Also, incredibly frustrating if it's not retroactive, because it means that I'll have to restart my ranger, if I can be bothered.

It probably was supposed to be 20% (since 1.05 changed it to 20% and claims it now works as intended )  but in 1.03 & 1.04 it was 40% .. My testing with 1 older save show the "fix" isn't savegame retroactive ...

 

Easy to test for your savegame - you only need to check combat log for 1 attack vs a marked prey target ..

 

 

Ah, so it's not a nerf, it's just a fix.

 

I haven't been able to check myself yet, because I'm still waiting for the patch.

[kmbogd]

Rhetorical question:  when are they going to change this inconsistency between lash dmg percentage and corresponding DR percentage?!

Edited May 8, 2015 by kmbogd

[peddroelm]

Rhetorical question:  when are they going to change this inconsistency between lash dmg percentage and associated DR dmg percentage?!

All lash damage goes vs a fixed percent ( 25% ) of appropriate target DR. The epitome of consistency ..

[kmbogd]

Yeah, it  depends on what you want to rate as (in)consistent: relation between dmg % and associated DR % (not consistent at all) or, as you said, their rule of always using 25DR% (consistent in an aberrant way).

 

Always using %25 DR makes no sense:

1. lash that does <25% dmg  is underpowered with respect to the standard DR mechanics
2. lash that does >25% dmg is overpowerred with respect to the standard DR mechanics
3. what about situations in which you improve a skill that does lash dmg (flames of devotion + intense flames) why does it have 50% DR as it's only one lash attack (albeit an improved one).

Edited May 8, 2015 by kmbogd

[Jace11]

Is there an issue with fixing things retroactively in people's save games? I guess it depends what is stored and how? If not just abilities, but also what bonuses the abilities provide are being stored numerically (instead of referencing the game files and adding appropriate multipliers etc) that could be an issue across the board. I just had to disable achievements for my current game because 1.05 doesn't retroactively fix GM's perception intellect switch. Had to fix it manually, no biggy, but I don't really get why a lot of these things can't be checked for when loading saves. Maybe if you manually remove the rangers marked prey ability and re-enable it with console, that will fix it?

[peddroelm]

 

1. what about situations in which you improve a skill that does lash dmg (flames of devotion + intense flames) why does it have 50% DR as it's only one lash attack (albeit an improved one).

 

I don't think it actually improves the ability. You get 2 separate lashes each going vs 25% DR  ( consistent behavior) ..

 

keep in mind  (A - X * 0.25) + (B -  X * 0.25 ) =  (A+B) - X* 0.25* ( 1 +1 )= (A+B) - X * 0.5

Edited May 8, 2015 by peddroelm

[kmbogd]

Intense flames: "Augments the power of the paladin's Flames of devotion, increasing it's dmg". So it shouldn't be separate but an improvement of the original ability.

 

Speaking in general, not necessarily related to the example above which is a bit particular, why should lashes of the same type be calculated separately? In the end it's just one single attack animation, lashes being secondary damage types  added to the original one. It makes only sense that lashes of the same type stack (I would also say that it makes sense that the DR% used for secondary dmg reflects the dmg% and it's not some weird, fixed number like 25%).

 

There are plenty of people that find the whole lash system so convoluted and counter-intuitive... The devs should, in my opinion, come forward and explain why they made this design choice. Maybe they do have a reason but keeping the silence would not appease us. If they don't have a meaningful reason then this is pretty easy to fix. 

Edited May 8, 2015 by kmbogd

[peddroelm]

Intense flames: "Augments the power of the paladin's Flames of devotion, increasing it's dmg". So it shouldn't be separate but an improvement of the original ability.

 

Nonsense! You mean you have the (totally unreasonable) expectation that abilities should actually do/work like their in-game descriptions lead you to believe/expect them to ?  <insert .. wait you where serious , laugh more .gif>

 

  Any correlation between the two in today's computer games is usually purely accidental/coincidental and should be treated as such (not the norm) ..

 

(sarcastic post above)

Edited May 8, 2015 by peddroelm

[Luckmann]

Rhetorical question:  when are they going to change this inconsistency between lash dmg percentage and corresponding DR percentage?!

 

Never. It's been confirmed as working as design. We can argue that it's bad design, and that they should make it into something that is a bit more consistent and makes a bit more sense, but I wouldn't hold my breath.