Relative Pacifist Achievement :)

[Omnicron]

Meet Cowardly Nimblequick (originally "Nimblequick the Cowardly", but that was 3 characters too long :/ )

 

 

To try and finish the game with less than 175 kills (on Hard) I originally designed him as a frightened character who is terrified at life and is pretty overwhelmed and despondent by events that have happened to him. He is not a strong fighter, but has learned how to survive based on his wit and his dexterity, doing everying possible to not get involved in business that does not concern him and running from a fight if possible, which is how he got on the caravan. It was fun to try and roleplay this. 

 

I even imagined how he would come into Valewood and be relieved to smell some cooking and a fire after his ordeal, only to find that they are bandits, terrified he does what he knows best and runs in the direction of the town (he has always been an exceptionally fast runner) only to come across some wolves, he runs for a nearby tree or cliff and the wolves consider the bandits easier prey (something like that anyway, not much of a writer but it is fun in my head ) [Confirmed that this does not add to your kill count]

 

Sadly I had to rethink his life story since the quests do not really allow you to be that kind of guy, in order to have the least kills I had to become a clever and cruel assassin who uses other people for his own benefit and tires not to get directly involved if he can help it. (Hence the erratic dispositions) 

 

So far so good. Just got to level 6 with only 23 kills. I take party members when I need to do a combat (twice so far), but otherwise I go solo. It has been nice to see how much the game does or does not allow for a non-combat orientated gameplay:

 

Raedric's hold: 1 kill only - Nedmar. You can sneak past all the undead with 7 stealth and get into the room with the animancer, but you wont be able to get out again. So killed Nedmar before going to her. He drops the key anyway if you just kill him, but went to report it to her anyway.

 

All Doemenel Quests: 6 Kills - that knight in Crucible keep, and the 5 guys you need to kill in order to get the letter in Copperlane. (It would have been nice if you could assassinate the one guy with the letter and use shadowing beyond to get out of combat. Sneak to loot and leave. But he is the barbarian and you would have to do it solo, so not likely. Unless maybe you got the hat that gives you whisper of treason and get his own party to gang up on him)

 

Confirmed that you can do the Temple of Eothas without any combat. 10 Stealth allows you to sneak past everything

 

Confirmed that you can also do the Bear Cave in Valewood with 10 Stealth. But you will need Shadowing Beyond to get out without combat.

 

Purnisc: 1 kill for decent xp if you kill the real one

 

& Then there are numerous quests which involve no combat like returning the armor, or reporting that animnacer needs the scroll in Wael's temple, or that woman in the brothel who stole the amulet, Little Derrin etc. 

 

I nearly did the lighthouse as well, got all the way to the top without combat (shadowing beyond will get you up the first staircase). But I could not get out due to some buggy mechanics and the floor design:  There is a Shade right at the door, and for some reason I cannot jump over him with escape (buggy). I eventually figured out how to pull the sade away from the door by making my detection circle go red and sneaking around him. I still get spotted a few tiles on the other side of the door and go straight into my 2nd shadowing beyond and run. Seemed good except that once ghosts have targeted you they will chase you until they make contact with your body. I managed to run all the way to the little room on the right and a shade followed me all the way in while I was invisible. So you have to let the shades touch you if hey are chasing you, sometimes even run to them so you can tag them, and then position yourself. I managed to get into that little room a second time without any shades following me. I observed the floor carefully from there and there is no way to sneak past. Furthermore, I also got to the door which lets you out of the building on another attempt and there were no shades engaging or chasing me and I was still invisible. Now Combat did not end so I could not leave, and I could also not start sneaking for the same reason, so I was stuck waiting at the door. The way the ghosts are positioned is that they will immediately see you once you appear at the door. So I just gave up. Maybe with another 2 points to stealth I can get through without entering combat at all, but I doubt it. 

 

 

Heritage Hill and Cliaban Rilag are going to be interesting to try and stealth through... Maybe I will take my party for those

 

Skills and Talents: Got Fast Runner, Cripple, Escape, Deep Wounds, & Shadowing Beyond. Not sure what to take next. Either Backstab or some general Talent. I think my best choice might be envenomed strike, the low might is bad for it, but I have a long duration. At level 5 I had 10 Stealth and 6 Mechanics. Think I will take more mechanics at level 6. Otherwise save the points. 

 

Edit: you can also steal the dragon egg for zero kills. Trigger engagement and run away. Sneak to interact with egg and run away again  

 

Edit2: Just did Sanitarium (The man who waits) with zero kills. Wow, potion of fleet feet is something else. Ran all the way out with 1 Shadowing Beyond

Edited May 1, 2015 by Omnicron

[knownastherat]

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78050-pazifism/

 

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edit: not sure why Deep Wounds and even Cripple as the goal is to avoid fights not to win them. You may want to consider Deep Pockets. I do not think I could win the final fight without it.

Edited May 1, 2015 by knownastherat

[Omnicron]

thanks for the link It seems I was able to avoid more combat that that thread so far. I am being somewhat silly in that I have not completed the game yet, but I was curious to see what this character could do, which is messing with my ability to choose talents, but with cripple and deep wounds, it was a simple matter of not having a choice, it had to be a rogue talent. But since I am taking party members for fights do I still need deep pockets to win the final encounter? 

[knownastherat]

I do not think so, not more than me

 

Joking aside, Cripple will not cripple you nor Deep Wounds. They actually may come handy in final fight. If you do it with party I do not think you need extra slots. I had them for figurines and potions.

 

The thing is, if you take party with you, you will probably (inevitably?) kill more than if you go alone as other members of your party cant benefit from certain techniques (SB + decoy) you could use alone.

 

However, if only < 175, not minimum, is your goal, then you should be fine even with party I guess.

[sucinum]

I found that 175 kills is plenty if you refrain from clearing maps and dungeons. You can do almost any combination of quests if you sneak around and only kill monsters which are quest relevant or blocking your way. When finishing the game, I had around 120 kills. I could have had far less.

 

Blaidth Golan (found in Sanatorium) is a really helpful armor for the end fight. Also a high running speed (I think you will get Boots of Speed every time in Sun in Shadows) helps dodging spells and separating enemies.

I had no problem fighting the mobs one by one, even without a complicated setup of traps and monsters. I only had to spawn mobs a single time to lure Thaos away while I killed the first golem. Then I went for Thaos, after reducing his HP he is unconscious until the 2nd golem is done. The 2nd golem was in the south and hadn't seen me so far and was an easy kill then.

 

Since you already had party members in your group, denying you the solo achievement, you can sacrifice the NPCs in the blood pool and create adventurers.

[knownastherat]

These are talents, abilities and equipment before Thaos fight.

 

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Honestly, I did not plan for it much and it was also my first shot at end game, solo or otherwise. I got impatient and said to myself .. lets try it with what I have. Even the Gaze trap I picked up in Dyrford ruins and potions crafted with what I had on me. Same with weapon and armor. Those are drops along the way, no premeditated products of my mind. 

[Omnicron]

These are talents, abilities and equipment before Thaos fight.

 

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Honestly, I did not plan for it much and it was also my first shot at end game, solo or otherwise. I got impatient and said to myself .. lets try it with what I have. Even the Gaze trap I picked up in Dyrford ruins and potions crafted with what I had on me. Same with weapon and armor. Those are drops along the way, no premeditated products of my mind. 

Only 92 Kills, Nice!

 

PS I have a Cipher doing triple crown which is why I do not mind taking party members. Decided on Deep Pockets since there will be situations where I need to fight solo. 

Edited May 1, 2015 by Omnicron

[Kaigen42]

You don't have to kill the guys in the Thieves' Hideout in Copperlane to get the letter back; with the right conversation options ("If Doemenel didn't send me, how did I know you were here?" always works for me) they will surrender the letter peacefully.

[knownastherat]

 

I nearly did the lighthouse as well, got all the way to the top without combat (shadowing beyond will get you up the first staircase). But I could not get out due to some buggy mechanics and the floor design:  There is a Shade right at the door, and for some reason I cannot jump over him with escape (buggy). I eventually figured out how to pull the sade away from the door by making my detection circle go red and sneaking around him. I still get spotted a few tiles on the other side of the door and go straight into my 2nd shadowing beyond and run. Seemed good except that once ghosts have targeted you they will chase you until they make contact with your body. I managed to run all the way to the little room on the right and a shade followed me all the way in while I was invisible. So you have to let the shades touch you if hey are chasing you, sometimes even run to them so you can tag them, and then position yourself. I managed to get into that little room a second time without any shades following me. I observed the floor carefully from there and there is no way to sneak past. Furthermore, I also got to the door which lets you out of the building on another attempt and there were no shades engaging or chasing me and I was still invisible. Now Combat did not end so I could not leave, and I could also not start sneaking for the same reason, so I was stuck waiting at the door. The way the ghosts are positioned is that they will immediately see you once you appear at the door. So I just gave up. Maybe with another 2 points to stealth I can get through without entering combat at all, but I doubt it. 

 

There are bugged doors or were prior to 1.05 so its not matter of Stealth but "outbugging" bug. I encountered the same issue as you describe, and needed to use SB 2x so I rested on 2nd floor iirc.

[Omnicron]

You don't have to kill the guys in the Thieves' Hideout in Copperlane to get the letter back; with the right conversation options ("If Doemenel didn't send me, how did I know you were here?" always works for me) they will surrender the letter peacefully.

 

Really? I have never seen that choice. Just loaded that savegame (even though it is way back) and these are my three options. All three start combat: 

 

[Omnicron]

 

 

I nearly did the lighthouse as well, got all the way to the top without combat (shadowing beyond will get you up the first staircase). But I could not get out due to some buggy mechanics and the floor design:  There is a Shade right at the door, and for some reason I cannot jump over him with escape (buggy). I eventually figured out how to pull the sade away from the door by making my detection circle go red and sneaking around him. I still get spotted a few tiles on the other side of the door and go straight into my 2nd shadowing beyond and run. Seemed good except that once ghosts have targeted you they will chase you until they make contact with your body. I managed to run all the way to the little room on the right and a shade followed me all the way in while I was invisible. So you have to let the shades touch you if hey are chasing you, sometimes even run to them so you can tag them, and then position yourself. I managed to get into that little room a second time without any shades following me. I observed the floor carefully from there and there is no way to sneak past. Furthermore, I also got to the door which lets you out of the building on another attempt and there were no shades engaging or chasing me and I was still invisible. Now Combat did not end so I could not leave, and I could also not start sneaking for the same reason, so I was stuck waiting at the door. The way the ghosts are positioned is that they will immediately see you once you appear at the door. So I just gave up. Maybe with another 2 points to stealth I can get through without entering combat at all, but I doubt it. 

 

There are bugged doors or were prior to 1.05 so its not matter of Stealth but "outbugging" bug. I encountered the same issue as you describe, and needed to use SB 2x so I rested on 2nd floor iirc.

 

 

Please explain how you did this I have looked at this problem from all angles and I initially thought a second SB would do the trick. But seems it ends when combat ends for me and since they will always detect me and restart combat as I am waiting at the door it seems hopeless Also I tried resting on all three levels and was denied, how did you manage to rest? 

Edited May 1, 2015 by Omnicron

[knownastherat]

I would if I remembered but I do not. Would need to replay the encounter*. The door even appear to be open while they are closed for all in-game purpose. But what is the problem exactly? Post screen shot? As far as I remember I managed to lure them to one part of the room, summoned something, SB and hid in another part of room. I do not remember the exact spots and timing but combat ended.  

 

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edit: cant I tided up. Well, either you manage to replicate it or my claim will stay in realm of anecdotes

Edited May 1, 2015 by knownastherat

[sucinum]

You don't have to kill the guys in the Thieves' Hideout in Copperlane to get the letter back; with the right conversation options ("If Doemenel didn't send me, how did I know you were here?" always works for me) they will surrender the letter peacefully.

 

If you do the warehouse quest in Ondra's Gift first, you can side with the Doemels. In that case, you get offocially sent to the house in Copperlane. That might be the requirement to get this dialogue option or another way to not kill them - not sure.

[knownastherat]

 

You don't have to kill the guys in the Thieves' Hideout in Copperlane to get the letter back; with the right conversation options ("If Doemenel didn't send me, how did I know you were here?" always works for me) they will surrender the letter peacefully.

 

If you do the warehouse quest in Ondra's Gift first, you can side with the Doemels. In that case, you get offocially sent to the house in Copperlane. That might be the requirement to get this dialogue option or another way to not kill them - not sure.

 

 

I was pretty sure that the only way to get to Doemels was through getting the letter and it was the last Doemels related task (delivery and task in Dyrford Village) I did because I did not want to fight them. I even had the jewel for the next task on me but could not start dialogue with appropriate NPC to join.

 

Good to know it is not so, that's another 6? defeated less.

[Omnicron]

 

 

You don't have to kill the guys in the Thieves' Hideout in Copperlane to get the letter back; with the right conversation options ("If Doemenel didn't send me, how did I know you were here?" always works for me) they will surrender the letter peacefully.

 

If you do the warehouse quest in Ondra's Gift first, you can side with the Doemels. In that case, you get offocially sent to the house in Copperlane. That might be the requirement to get this dialogue option or another way to not kill them - not sure.

 

 

I was pretty sure that the only way to get to Doemels was through getting the letter and it was the last Doemels related task (delivery and task in Dyrford Village) I did because I did not want to fight them. I even had the jewel for the next task on me but could not start dialogue with appropriate NPC to join.

 

Good to know it is not so, that's another 6? defeated less.

 

 

Interesting, well then if you did it that way I guess at the trading company you could choose to kill the guy, but run away & let the doemels do the killing, which might save you a few kills? 

[Omnicron]

I would if I remembered but I do not. Would need to replay the encounter*. The door even appear to be open while they are closed for all in-game purpose. But what is the problem exactly? Post screen shot? As far as I remember I managed to lure them to one part of the room, summoned something, SB and hid in another part of room. I do not remember the exact spots and timing but combat ended.  

 

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edit: cant I tided up. Well, either you manage to replicate it or my claim will stay in realm of anecdotes

Ok your post got me thinking so I went back and tried it again. It was the bugged door that was the problem after all. It looked open while it was closed and that is why I could not jump through. 

 

So simply did the following. Opened door. Summon wood beatles behind me. I was lucky that I was already in the door at this stage, so could go straight into SB and waited at the exit. combat ended while shades were at the stairs so I could get out well before they returned to their posts Mission Accomplished !!! Thanks :D

 

Now only 2000xp short of level 8. Still only 23 kills Sanatorium was fun do do with zero kills. SB + Fleet Feet FTW 

Edited May 1, 2015 by Omnicron

[Kaigen42]

Sucinum's got it right, if you side with the Doemenels in the Warehouse Quest, they'll give you a quest to talk to Abrecan, who will send you to retrieve the letter from the thieves, unlocking the option to get it nonviolently (though they'll still start a fight if you say the wrong thing). I don't think you can get this path if you go the neutral route in the warehouse quest i.e. take your payment and leave, but you can probably let the Doemenels do most of the killing to still keep your number of kills down.

[sucinum]

Interesting, well then if you did it that way I guess at the trading company you could choose to kill the guy, but run away & let the doemels do the killing, which might save you a few kills? 

 

Yes, I did that. The Doemels are quite strong and can easily kill everybody in the warehouse. I still got added a single kill for whatever reason, either because Verzano is plot relevant or one of the Doemel guys counted as ally to me and did a killing blow. Altogether, siding with the Doemels increased my killcount by 2 and I did every quest they had. Very pazifist guys.

[Omnicron]

Got into the 1st floor of Heritage Hill Tower without being detected, but it is impossible to sneak past either way to get to the second floor. Going left is only 5 kills though. A bit disappointing because it seems like there is a bu on this level. I pull that mob with my beetles and run past with SB, and the beetles die and I am in a secluded spot by the stairs. I waited 10mins and even though there is no combat happening, and I am not detected, I am still "in combat" according tot he game. 

[Omnicron]

Ok I rerolled my character because there were some things I was not happy with, just completed ACT II and on my way to Twin Elms with only 16 kills

 

 

 

 

So far so good. Not sure if he can solo Thaos, but it is not a strictly solo run, so will see how things turn out. Action time is important for getting through some encounters with a summon and SB (although perhaps good CON would have the same effect?). Resolve is important for resolving a number of quests without combat (there is a very high check of 22 in Twin Elms) and Int is important for SB duration. Not sure what talents to go for next. I have Fast Runner and Deep Pockets. Crippling Strike, Escape, Shadowing Beyond, Deep wounds, and Dirty Fighting.  [Edit, scrolled up and saw knownastherat already answered this ]

 

Got my Adra Beetle without killing anyone so not sure why this is deceptive? Killing them would be the lie 

 

 

Last little concern.... when I played on Hard I was able to get though the Stromwall Gorge encounter by talking my way out of it. I saw the checks and they needed high Aggressive and Benevolent Scores. Now I succeeded in the check which lets me intimidate them, but Benevolence should allow me to assure them that they can get off the hook... I am displaying unqualified interactions and it is not even an option anymore?? Was this changed in the patch? I would like the avoid killing these 5 if possible....

 

 

Edited May 15, 2015 by Omnicron

[rjshae]

What about a Life Pacifist run: try to avoid killing living creatures, but you can slay as many vessels and undead spirits as you like.

[Omnicron]

What about a Life Pacifist run: try to avoid killing living creatures, but you can slay as many vessels and undead spirits as you like.

 Why would you do that? In terms of compulsory kills I have killed 5 undead, 2 spiders, and 9 humans. Overall Kith will be in the highest because of the main questline. Also, with the exception of Darguls undead and spirits have like the worst detection together with oozes and spiders. So they are by far the easiest to sneak past, making killing them the least necessary. In contrast Kith are rather hard to sneak past. To get through Skaen temple via the statue I still needed sugar and SB to get to the room, becasue my detection meter filled up like crazy. 

Edited May 15, 2015 by Omnicron

[Omnicron]

 

Last little concern.... when I played on Hard I was able to get though the Stromwall Gorge encounter by talking my way out of it. I saw the checks and they needed high Aggressive and Benevolent Scores. Now I succeeded in the check which lets me intimidate them, but Benevolence should allow me to assure them that they can get off the hook... I am displaying unqualified interactions and it is not even an option anymore?? Was this changed in the patch? I would like the avoid killing these 5 if possible....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok I loaded my other save on hard with a party and here it shows benevolent should be an option for me, but it is not....

 http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/79522-conversation-options-missing/

 

Edit: FYI, while waiting to hear from Obsidian on this issue I went down the Endless Paths.

 

You can get down to level 4 without triggering any encounters. 

To get to Level 5 you need to use summons and SB but not too hard without a kill

Sadly you cannot access the Main staircase without killing a lot of Xariup on level 5

You cannot sneak past the Drake on level 5 because it is a scripted interaction. Combat will also not end until he is dead. You can pull him and kill him on his own and combat will stop allowing you to sneak down to level 6.

I see no way to get past level 6 without a lot of combat. The rooms with the seals are quite packed.... I can keep the kills down to like 20-30, but still....

Edited May 16, 2015 by Omnicron

[Enoch]

Sucinum's got it right, if you side with the Doemenels in the Warehouse Quest, they'll give you a quest to talk to Abrecan, who will send you to retrieve the letter from the thieves, unlocking the option to get it nonviolently (though they'll still start a fight if you say the wrong thing). I don't think you can get this path if you go the neutral route in the warehouse quest i.e. take your payment and leave, but you can probably let the Doemenels do most of the killing to still keep your number of kills down.

 

I was able to avoid killing the thieves, despite taking the neutral route in the warehouse.  I think the important detail is to wait until the Main Quest asks you to get a patron for the hearings before crashing the thieves' hideout.  I got the option to avoid a fight via the following sequence:  1) Warehouse resolved in a neutral fashion; 2) Advance Main Plot to the point where Lady Webb tells you to find a patron; 3) Visit Doemenal HQ to get the quest to find the letter from Abrecan; 4) Enter thieves hideout for the first time.

 

I suspect that the first step might even be unnecessary-- you can probably pass over the warehouse quest entirely, or do it after all this.  The mission from Lady Webb is enough to get you in to see Abrecan, who gives the quest you need to avoid a fight with the thieves. 

[Omnicron]

 

 

Ready for Sun and Shadow, 20 kills  Just need to go shop for some combat gear, fine spear from act I aint gonna cut it Pity, if it was still 1.04 I would be level 11 at least and might even have reached 12 in the dungeon

 

PotD difficulty. Boots of speed + Scales of the Raven is really cool

 

To try and make the Thaos fight feasible does anyone know where I can get scrolls that increase my skill points? Specifically I think I will need one for lore, and if I want to try and use a party I might need one for stealth. 

Edited May 16, 2015 by Omnicron