What to build, what to build...

[Vorkon]

Hi all!

 

I've been eagerly awaiting this game since the second the Kickstarter was announced, but when it finally released it was at a time where I was just too busy to properly devote the necessary time to playing it.  Now that I do have a bit of time on my hands, I'm having the hardest time figuring out what sort of main character I want to create.  I always have this problem in games, but in this one it's even worse that usual.  I've been wracking my brain for a few days now, and still haven't even managed to get past the character creation screen!

 

Right now I'm leaning toward Monk or Cipher.  I tend to enjoy classes with a lot of micromanagement and different things they can do in battle, and it sounds like those classes fit the bill.  I know that in a game like this the pary needs to work as a team, and the main character is only a single cog in that machine, but I like him to be one part of the machine that I really enjoy using.  Perhaps more importantly, though, I'm only planning on using the pre-made NPC companions.  I gather that a lot of them aren't built very well, but I tend to prefer the sense of connection they bring to the story over using a bunch of random characters I create.  Since none of them are Monks (and Rogues and Barbarians just aren't the sort of characters I tend to prefer playing) I'm leaning toward the Monk, but I did notice in another thread that Ciphers have the most unique lines of dialogue, plus apparently from what everyone is saying the NPC Cipher is one of the worst built companions in the game, so I'm a little bit torn.

 

Moreover, as I implied above, I really love building a character that can get as many dialogue options as possible, and I'm not sure the best way to do that.  There's no single stat like Charisma that will help me get those, the way there is in D&D-based games.  (In older games I would often play a Bard, especially if the Blade kit was available, since you could pump Charisma and still have an important role to play in combat.  Sorcerers were nice, too.)  If I do build a Monk, is there any way I can build him to do good damage and still manage to fit a few point into Intelliegence, Perception, and Resolve?  I'd assume I'd need to make a tanky Monk, since if I go for a damage dealer who runs in just after the tank the deflection I'd get from Perception and Resolve would reduce the number of wounds I take, but from what I've been reading the thing the pre-made companions are most lacking are characters that can output really good amounts of damage, so I'd rather build a damage dealer if possible.  If anyone has a good tanky monk build, though, please let me know.  And if I only put, say, 12 in Intelligence, Perception, and Resolve, will there be magic items/enchantments available early enough for me to bump them up to 14 before I miss too much?  Speaking of which, can a Monk survive without pumping any points into Constitution?  If I DO want to make an even halfway decent damage dealer, I know I'll want points in Might and Dexterity, and that doesn't leave me with many points for other things.  Or should I not even be looking into making a Monk at all?

 

So, since that whole spiel is pretty long, here are my priorities:

 

1)  A class that compliments the pre-made companions well.

2)  A class that requires a lot of micromanagement and has a lot of fun abilities to use during combat.

3)  A character who can get as many dialogue options as possible.

4) A build which, despite #3, is still good in combat.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice you all can give!

[gkathellar]

If you're fine with the fact there's one among the companions already (the redundancy doesn't end up being a problem), Cipher is your ballgame for damage+micromanagement. Ciphers do very well with high Intellect, which provides a fair number of conversation options.

 

If you're really committed to getting both conversation options and respectable (not high damage, just respectable), go for a tanky monk or barbarian with maxed-out Might, Resolve and Perception. You'll need to dump Dexterity (and Constitution if you go the Barbarian route, for the Intellect points), but both can tank and dish out respectable damage at the same time.

Edited April 18, 2015 by gkathellar

[Heijoushin]

I know you haven't mentioned them, but I would consider Rogue. There's no permanent rogue companion (just a temp one) and they require micromanagement to function well. I found it very worth while playing one. Otherwise, yeah, Ciphers have great spells. I'm not too wild about the monk myself.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about stats. Although there is no all-in-one charisma stat, for dialogue, you use:

Perception to notice things

Intelligence to make intelligent comments

Resolution to lie and mentally intimidate

Might to push people around (in dialogue) - bully style

 

Still, whatever you choose, you'll get some unique dialogue options, so don't let it bother you too much.

[Vorkon]

Yeah, "respectable" is about the best I'm expecting.  I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that if I build to get all the conversation options, I'm going to have to take a hit somewhere.

 

If I build a tanky monk with the stats you're describing, should I actually USE him as the main tank, or run him in just after the main tank the way a lot of other monk threads are suggesting?  And am I safe to leave con at 10, or should I be pumping a few points into that as well?

 

And just how far in do I need to get before I start getting items I can use to buff my stats?  I'm wondering if 12 in everything other than might and dexterity might be enough for me to buff my conversation stats high enough to get everything I want, and if I'll be able to get there soon enough to make it worth it.

 

Also, is the cipher companion really badly built enough to make her not worth using?  A bunch of threads I've read seem to suggest so, but the internet being what it is, I'm not sure how much of that is just hyperbole.

[Ganrich]

Ciphers are powerful enough that the companion's stats don't inhibit her from being very useful in a party. She can still lay on the hurt.

 

Just finished my Monk play through last night. I loved it. I went kinda offtank with it. 16, 8, 17, 17, 10, 10 IIRC. I let the fighter companion get the bulk of enemies, used the Monk to clean the sidelines, then moved into the crowd around the fighter tank to spam damage with Torment's Reach. Monk requires micro and good positioning. They become really tough to kill late game. I also wore light armor. You can wear robes, but you will be crit more often which can leave you in a bad way. IMHO the Monk has more micro than cipher, but ymmv. You sometimes cannot spend wounds fast enough.

[gkathellar]

One proviso with respect to optimization advice: you can get away with a lot in this game, especially on Normal. You don't necessarily have to optimize at all.

 

If I build a tanky monk with the stats you're describing, should I actually USE him as the main tank, or run him in just after the main tank the way a lot of other monk threads are suggesting?  And am I safe to leave con at 10, or should I be pumping a few points into that as well?

 

Personally, I prefer to use a heavily armored, sword-and-shield monk as my main tank, and I've found this works very nicely with a Constitution of 7 (or lower, to be honest). If you're going for a fist-fighting off-tank, you'll probably want a little more Con, and you'll probably want to avoid being surrounded by literally everything in the universe.

 

Con is ... not very valuable, in general. There are exceptions, but tanks tend to rely more on Deflection than on Endurance, and other characters tend to rely more on not being targets. Because it's percentage based, Con has more value for high-HP classes like monks and barbarians, but their starting pools are also good enough that they can afford to take losses. You can generally (again, with some exceptions) afford to keep Con at 10 or lower on anything other than a retaliation tank.

 

And just how far in do I need to get before I start getting items I can use to buff my stats?  I'm wondering if 12 in everything other than might and dexterity might be enough for me to buff my conversation stats high enough to get everything I want, and if I'll be able to get there soon enough to make it worth it.

 

You'll start finding stat-buffing items pretty early, but the highest stat bonuses from items are +3, and they don't stack. There are also Inn bonuses (gained for 24 hours after resting in particular rooms) ranging from +1-4, but you can't really exploit those without a significant amount of meta knowledge.

 

Note that the highest stat requirements for conversation are 20, so there's that.

 

Also, is the cipher companion really badly built enough to make her not worth using?  A bunch of threads I've read seem to suggest so, but the internet being what it is, I'm not sure how much of that is just hyperbole.

 

The cipher companion is totally usable, it's just that her stats are dreadfully arranged. Cipher is a great class (in terms of design, fun, and power), and while stats help it a lot, it's less stat-dependent than some other classes.

 

 I also wore light armor. You can wear robes, but you will be crit more often which can leave you in a bad way.

 

Armor has nothing to do with taking crits. That's all deflection. Armor just mitigates the damage you do take.

Edited April 18, 2015 by gkathellar

[termokanden]

Yep, the cipher party member is actually excellent. She's missing an important 2nd-level power (Mental Binding), but you can just give that to her when you level up.

[Exoduss]

I would go for ranged rogue , kick ass class and esp if its a watcher ( player character has special skills)  you can run no armor low constitution and duel anything that gets trough your front liners , also after maxing might and dexterity it leaves you with alot of spare points ( nothing else except max might and max dex is mandatory for rogue and tbh not rly needed ) , you can put these spare points either into perception or intelect ( or even max both if you leave con at 3 ) these will provide you with the dialogue choices , also never make critical mistake with PoE builds , dont have all stats above 10 or something like that , in PoE you either go Max stat or Min stat or its constitution and you put there w/e is left , dont ever make chars with 16 perception or 15 intelect , always go for max( or min if you dont need the stat)  so you can get all the dialogue options and max benefit from the stat ( stuff gets better more you stack it in this game ) Having something at 10 will mean that you have nothing and wasted 7 points. 

Edited April 18, 2015 by Exoduss

[Vorkon]

Okay, cool, I'm glad to hear that I can safely dump con without making a monk too easy to kill.  That seems a little counterintuitive on a class that's all about taking damage, but as long as he can survive long enough to use those wounds, I'm fine with that!

 

Now I just need to decide whether I want to dump dex and go sword and board, or keep it and go with fists and/or two weapons.  Fists/two weapons seems more thematically appropriate, but the rest of my stats will be a bit lower.  Do you think m16 c8 d16 p14 i12 r12 would be enough?  I know I won't be able to max out anything that way, but honestly I care more about getting conversation options often enough to be able to feel like my character can outsmart people, rather than being able to charm the pants off a god, or anything outlandish like that.

 

If I go for more of a tanky, sword and board build, how does m18 c8 d10 p17 i13 r12 sound?  I know that resolve will be more useful for a tank than intelligence, but I tend to prefer the smarter conversation options, and I want to be able to get it to at least 14, if not higher.

 

It's kind of sad, since the cipher sounds a little more like my cup of tea, and I really would like to pump intelligence, which seems counterproductive on a monk, but I really don't want to duplicate the work my companions can do, if at all possible.

 

(And yeah, I thought about doing a rogue too, and I would probably enjoy it since carefully positioning myself to take advantage of my enemies' weaknesses is always quite fun, but a monk does that too, and monk feels a little more my style.  It may not be a spellcaster or anything, but I generally prefer characters with an at least somewhat mystical bent.  Also, no way am I making a character with a 3 in any stat, unless it's a specific part of the character's concept, like a big braindead bruiser, or a Raistlin-style sickly mage.  Nobody with a 3 in con could realistically be expected to run around and perform the sort of acrobatic feats a rogue is known for, for example.  For roleplaying purposes, the lowest I'm likely to be convinced to set anything other than an obvious crippling handicap is 6, and even that's kind of pushing it.  Thanks for the optimization advice, though!)

 

Edit:  Oh yeah, if it helps in anybody's suggestions, I'm planning on playing on Hard.  I don't want to go with Path of the Damned on my first playthrough, but I've played enough old IE games and other management-heavy RPGs and/or tactics games that I think hard would work best for me.

Edited April 18, 2015 by Vorkon

[Ganrich]

@gkathellar - your right. That's what I get for posting with 45 minutes sleep. I still prefer slightly more DR than robes bring to the table, but to each their own.