I don't understand combat in this game...

[eschaton]

Hey all,

 

To start with, I should say that I am a veteran of old IE games.  Cut my teeth on BG and BG2 back in college, love Planescape:Torment, etc.  I'm not a noob to cRPGs of this style at all.

 

That said, while I'm loving the game, I'm finding the combat pretty challenging, and I'm playing on easy.  I'm pretty sure I'm doing something wrong here.  I'm just trying to figure out what it is.  It's not like I'm dying all the time, but in the tougher combats one or two characters routinely drop to zero stamina, and I can tell I'm not utilizing my casters properly.  Combat feels like an awful, horrible slog to me.  

 

So far, I'm into chapter 2, and my party looks like this:

 

Protagonist:  Chanter.  I sort of envisioned the character as akin to some swashbucker/mage and blade builds I did in BG2.  So I decided to make him into a dual-wielding melee character.  This seems to have been a big mistake, because he's one of only two melee specialists in the party (due to the luck of recruitment) so he ends up taking a lot of hits even though he doesn't have incredibly high stamina.  If combat lasts long enough though he can either summon skeletons or shadows though, which can be a big help since there isn't much on the front line in the party.  

 

Aloth:  I don't understand how to use mages in this game.  Almost all of the offensive spells seem to be AOE, which are damn hard to aim correctly.  My biggest use for him is to paralyze (via fetid caress) and let the other characters whack the hell out of the baddies.  

 

Eder:  Works as advertised quite well.  One of the only characters I'm pretty sure I'm using right.   

 

Durance:  Again, I'm not sure how to use his spellcasting well in combat.  Yes, I cast spells to boost endurance in combat.  But clerics have few offensive spells, and lots of spells which either inflict minor penalties on the enemies, or boost my party in a minor level.  I can never decide which one is appropriate for the situation.  Due to his quarterstaff, he ends up in melee more than I'd like.  

 

Kana:  Seems okay, but aside from using a gun, he's sort of a repetition of my character (even knows most of the same chants).  I only have him in because I haven't found more story NPCs yet.  

 

Sagani:  Just got her a short while ago.  I don't mind her so far, but I hear rangers suck.  Still, It's sort of upsetting that I keep getting squishy ranged characters and casters.  

 

I should say I've accumulated a ton of consumables over the game so far.  Ever since the IE games I've been a big fan of never using any consumables unless you absolutely have to, and I've crafted a good deal of scrolls, potions, and some food.  But I seldom use any of it, because I don't know what particular consumables will be appropriate for a given situation.  

 

Anyway, tips would be appreciated.  I am thinking of rerolling and just starting over again.  

[Jimmysdabestcop]

There are a lot of consumables in the game. No need to save them. Use them at will. Usually items then buff off/def are good.

 

Not sure if 2 Chanters on Easy will be that helpful. As fights might get done to quick and they might not be able to spawn their summons which is what is really helpful.

 

You can create adventurers at the Inn 1 level behind yours. Might want to exchange Kana for one of them. Perhaps a Rogue, Monk or Barbarian since there are no NPC's with those classes. It would help to deal damage.

 

It probably will help you to have Eder focus on defensive abilities, talents, items, shields etc so he can stand in the middle of the enemies. I turned Durance into a tank in my game. That way he can go front line and just cast buffs/debuffs.

 

Also dont be afraid to get position with your Ranged Spell throwers. And the yellow part of AoE doesn't damage Party. Just the red. While yellow and red damage Foes.

 

I typically stay in sneak mode. And unleash a gun blast with every character. Then switch to primary melee/ranged weapon for each character.

 

Those debuffs really help. Plus with Accuracy buffs and those status debuffs its easier to score Crits.

[Ink Blot]

As noted, you pretty much end up swimming in consumables and they can be bought at most vendors anyway. Use 'em with abandon. Upgrade your armor and weapons as you find better items.

 

As for combat, just throw your tanks into a chokepoint (like a doorway) and pew pew with your others. There are very rare occasions where this won't work to win the encounter in short order with little to no damage to your party.

 

Use the priest to buff your party/debuff enemies. Use Chanters to buff and summon. Use the mage to pew pew with spells.

[LadyCrimson]

Durance: [ ... ] Due to his quarterstaff, he ends up in melee more than I'd like.

Durance may like his staff, but it's not glued to his fingers. If you have no need/want for more melee, give him a pistol or bow or a wand, whatever you wish. Some of his spells means he'll get up closer occasionally to cast, but at least he won't be distracted via trying to get close enough to whack things when he's done casting.

[dimvision]

You might also want to check spell descriptions "FOE AOE" means it only targets enemies so don't be afraid to target spells on top of your party, "AOE" means it targets everyone within the red circle but doesn't hurt your allies in the yellow circle the higher the intelligence of the caster the bigger the yellow aoe becomes. This is also the same if the spell has "FOE BEAM" and "BEAM".

Edited April 16, 2015 by dimvision

[Elgyn]

I sort of envisioned the character as akin to some swashbucker/mage and blade builds I did in BG2.  So I decided to make him into a dual-wielding melee character.

What you probably wanted was a dual wield Cipher. Perhaps something like a rapier/stiletto combination for RP-Swashbuckler look, or perhaps many of the other weapon mixes. The Cipher is basically the Fighter-Mage (Fighter-Psion actually) in the game. If you want to mageblade, it's the class easiest suited for it.
 

I don't understand how to use mages in this game.  Almost all of the offensive spells seem to be AOE, which are damn hard to aim correctly.  My biggest use for him is to paralyze (via fetid caress) and let the other characters whack the hell out of the baddies.  

The trick is to use the second AOE ring (the yellow) which is FOE only. The more INT Aloth has, the larger the yellow ring is. Also, there are Foe only spells which you can just cast to your hearts content. Since you are a BG vet, micro-managing a mage will come second nature to you, and you will notice Aloth will really start to shine. Just learning how to position for Fan of Flames could carry Aloth through most of the game. 

Mages have a power curve much like BG. At first they don't seem very special, by mid game they are really coming into their own, by late game they can rain hell on the enemy every single fight (since Level 1 and Level 2 spells become encounter instead of daily.). You don't spell duel like you did in BG though. Mages are either buffer/debuffers, or AOE nukers for the most part. And by running multiple grimoires, they can do this pretty much at the same time if need be.

I really like Mages in this game (I do think the magic system needs a little work though) and don't think they are anywhere near useless like you see come up in some threads.
 

Durance:  Due to his quarterstaff, he ends up in melee more than I'd like.  

 

Give him a gun, give him talents for a gun, watch him curse and shoot from the backline effectively. The Heal spells work pretty much like every other game, his Seal line of spells is really good (I especially like Repulsion), and with his mechanics he should also be able to lay traps for you for ambushes. He also does really well buffing your party/debuffing the enemy in tough fights. Ionic whatever (Spark?) is another really decent spell as it's a slight-aoe frost damage to enemies, while giving heals to your party. I've played Durance quarterstaff first but it's not that great.

 

 

Kana:  Seems okay, but aside from using a gun, he's sort of a repetition of my character (even knows most of the same chants).  I only have him in because I haven't found more story NPCs yet.  

 

I'm sure you know you can make your own chants, and that's the huge power boost of the Chanters. Non-stop party buffs which can lead to much stronger team fighting. The rapid reload is a personal favorite of mine. His summons can also be game changers, especially the shadows with their bloody perma-stun capabilities. You can also use Link spells with his summons (or Ranger pets) to really mess up enemy packs by placing the summons behind the enemy and then linking to them with your caster.

I like using Kana as a float. He has an Estoc for damage, a Flail and shield for emergency tanking, and a rifle for safe damage when he's singing the rapid reload chant.

 

Sagani:  Just got her a short while ago.  I don't mind her so far, but I hear rangers suck.  Still, It's sort of upsetting that I keep getting squishy ranged characters and casters.  

I don't like Rangers in this game with how they are currently built. Maybe someone else will have some tips for you.
 

 

[cJohnOne]

i'm a lousy player but did you hire an adventurer at the first town?  You should have found a Paladin companion  where your headed.  That should take care of any tanking slots.  I think I like three melee and three ranged.  You have 2 melee and 4 ranged?  So you can swap out the Chanter for the Paladin.  I just started act II so I haven't a clue what's to come.

Edited April 16, 2015 by cJohnOne

[Prime-Mover]

@OP 

 

This may be entirely obvious to you and others, but I was too lost in all the stats and talents at my first playthrough to notice:

 

Remember to check out the character's "weapons focus" talent to get most bang for your buck. Most of the companions have this talent per default, and the +6 boost to accuracy is very helpful in the early parts of the game. So use it to refer to it when sorting out what weapons to equip.

[Marceror]

One observation is that you could really use another tank. There is a pretty good Paladin companion you can meet in Defiance Bay. I would probably drop Kana for her, since you are already a chanter.

 

Your chanter can either switch to long ranged weapons, or start battle with those, and then maybe switch to melee weapons and run into the fight after the tanks have established themselves there.

 

Remember to pause a lot so you can assess what's going on and make changes. Move your wizard into good positions to get his spells off. Spells like fireball you just need to avoid your own guys, but otherwise don't need to worry about positioning your wizard anywhere special. And remember that the yellow border around those spells won't injure your allies.

[Jimmysdabestcop]

Durance can be turned into a cannon. Or if you get him early you can turn Durance into a tank. Focus on Defense Talents/Abilities and not on weapons an accuracy. Give him a hatchet for +5 Deflection and the largest shield and enchant it. Think that is another +25 to deflection. He was my first character with over 100 deflection and it was pretty early in Act 2. I can have him open with a Gun an chances are he will hit. But his only real damage comes from his spells.

 

I did it that way cause I ended up with 2 fighters and it was easier to have a Priest at the frontlines to do buffs and debuffs. My Durance almost takes no damage. Give him some good items you can boost his endurance, Con and even get him to regen HP like a fighter. I actually liked the 2 fighters. Its set it and forget it. While you can focus on your characters who have spells and abilities to manage.

 

Even the Ranged Rogue I set up is pretty much auto attack. Unless there is a big boss then its cripple/blind abilitity to engange auto Sneak Attack and just fire at will.

 

I have a Rogue, Cipher, and Druid as my ranged crew. And the Druid handles heals, buffs, and debuffs for that group when needed. When thats  not needed he flings his AoE attacks around.

 

Now with my setup with Durance as one of the tanks. You could easily swap out one of the 2 fighters for Barbarian, Monk, or Melee Rogue. Right rogue setup and in game weapon you can basically crit and sneak attack 85% of the time.

[b0rsuk]

One observation is that you could really use another tank. There is a pretty good Paladin companion you can meet in Defiance Bay. I would probably drop Kana for her, since you are already a chanter.

 

Your chanter can either switch to long ranged weapons, or start battle with those, and then maybe switch to melee weapons and run into the fight after the tanks have established themselves there.

 

Remember to pause a lot so you can assess what's going on and make changes. Move your wizard into good positions to get his spells off. Spells like fireball you just need to avoid your own guys, but otherwise don't need to worry about positioning your wizard anywhere special. And remember that the yellow border around those spells won't injure your allies.

 

I second this post. You don't necessarily need to swap Kana for the paladin. Chanters are comfortable in heavy armor. Just keep in mind bigger shields decrease your accuracy with invocations. Chanters have okay deflection, I had Kana tank really nasty endgame monsters with heavy armor and a shield.

 

In general, characters with many activated abilities are good in light armor because they can use them quicker. Chanters have few, that's why they can wear plates. I like small shield + plate for stronger opponents, plate + two-handed weapon for weaker ones or when enemy is not targeting me.

 

Also, press 's' as soon as combat starts. Slow mode combined with pause makes combat much more managable.

Edited April 16, 2015 by b0rsuk

[eLPuSHeR]

 

The trick is to use the second AOE ring (the yellow) which is FOE only. The more INT Aloth has, the larger the yellow ring is. Also, there are Foe only spells which you can just cast to your hearts content. Since you are a BG vet, micro-managing a mage will come second nature to you, and you will notice Aloth will really start to shine. Just learning how to position for Fan of Flames could carry Aloth through most of the game. 

 

 

I always thought the RED ring was for FOEs. Is this right? Is the YELLOW ring foes only then? If so, I have understand magic the opposite way, LOL.

[jools1980]

Hey all,

 

To start with, I should say that I am a veteran of old IE games.  Cut my teeth on BG and BG2 back in college, love Planescape:Torment, etc.  I'm not a noob to cRPGs of this style at all.

 

That said, while I'm loving the game, I'm finding the combat pretty challenging, and I'm playing on easy.  I'm pretty sure I'm doing something wrong here.  I'm just trying to figure out what it is.  It's not like I'm dying all the time, but in the tougher combats one or two characters routinely drop to zero stamina, and I can tell I'm not utilizing my casters properly.  Combat feels like an awful, horrible slog to me.  

 

So far, I'm into chapter 2, and my party looks like this:

 

Protagonist:  Chanter.  I sort of envisioned the character as akin to some swashbucker/mage and blade builds I did in BG2.  So I decided to make him into a dual-wielding melee character.  This seems to have been a big mistake, because he's one of only two melee specialists in the party (due to the luck of recruitment) so he ends up taking a lot of hits even though he doesn't have incredibly high stamina.  If combat lasts long enough though he can either summon skeletons or shadows though, which can be a big help since there isn't much on the front line in the party.  

 

Aloth:  I don't understand how to use mages in this game.  Almost all of the offensive spells seem to be AOE, which are damn hard to aim correctly.  My biggest use for him is to paralyze (via fetid caress) and let the other characters whack the hell out of the baddies.  

 

Eder:  Works as advertised quite well.  One of the only characters I'm pretty sure I'm using right.   

 

Durance:  Again, I'm not sure how to use his spellcasting well in combat.  Yes, I cast spells to boost endurance in combat.  But clerics have few offensive spells, and lots of spells which either inflict minor penalties on the enemies, or boost my party in a minor level.  I can never decide which one is appropriate for the situation.  Due to his quarterstaff, he ends up in melee more than I'd like.  

 

Kana:  Seems okay, but aside from using a gun, he's sort of a repetition of my character (even knows most of the same chants).  I only have him in because I haven't found more story NPCs yet.  

 

Sagani:  Just got her a short while ago.  I don't mind her so far, but I hear rangers suck.  Still, It's sort of upsetting that I keep getting squishy ranged characters and casters.  

 

I should say I've accumulated a ton of consumables over the game so far.  Ever since the IE games I've been a big fan of never using any consumables unless you absolutely have to, and I've crafted a good deal of scrolls, potions, and some food.  But I seldom use any of it, because I don't know what particular consumables will be appropriate for a given situation.  

 

Anyway, tips would be appreciated.  I am thinking of rerolling and just starting over again.  

 

About your party, I'd say you're lacking one extra melee character to beef up your frontline: Pallegina comes to mind, or just build one up from the inn.

 

Personally, I found Kana and Sagani both equally useless unless you're playing heavily on summons/pets.

 

I even dispensed with Aloth (too much of a glass cannon, plus I loathe him as a character), and preferred to keep GM and Hiravia as "damange" casters. GM has very powerful single-target spells (plus the bouncy one), and Hiravias (which can shapeshift and double as a devastating melee) has some badass long range aoe.

 

Durance I keep for buffing, some CC, and obviously healing.

 

I'm terrible at combat in IE games, and yet I'm playing on medium with this party (PC as a dwarven 2h damage pally, Eder, Pallegina, GM, Hiravias, Durance) and I'm finding most encounters fairly easy. Kill healers/casters first, pause a lot, focus on the same foe as much as possible is all the advice I can really give (and banal at that).

[Elgyn]

I always thought the RED ring was for FOEs. Is this right? Is the YELLOW ring foes only then? If so, I have understand magic the opposite way, LOL.

The Red Ring (inner ring) is the spells normal size, which can damage anyone in it's radius. If it's a foe only spell, then you are safe putting it anywhere. If not, it will damage your party.

The Yellow Ring (outer ring) is the spells expanded size through Int, and it only targets enemies for direct damage spells. You will still catch your own party with say Slicken or Chill Fog if friendlies are in the ring, but a Fan of Flames won't effect them.

Edit: I can't spell this early in the day!

Edited April 16, 2015 by Elgyn