Whos better dps Mork or Barb?

[kug]

Whos better in game dps Mork or Barbanian? Barb still buggy?

[nemesis205bw]

Barb even on single target. Yes, barb is still buggy.

[Climhazzard]

Honestly when I make one of each, and am not using some cheesy retaliation/one stands alone build on my barb, they're about even.

[Longknife]

Barb even on single target. Yes, barb is still buggy.

 

 

How?

 

Torment's Reach = Guarenteed Crit. A Monk with wounds is "critting" every .5 seconds. A Barb definitely does better group damage, but how would a barb bring down a single target faster without One Stands Alone?

Edited April 15, 2015 by Longknife

[nemesis205bw]

Because of higher crit chance (threatening presence + brute force), frenzy, blooded and ocasionally bloodlust. No contest.

 

One stands alone is currently bugged, but when fixed it should give atleast 20% more dmg which is still alot.

Edited April 15, 2015 by nemesis205bw

[Raven Darkholme]

I haven't even tried barb yet because everyone complains how cheap it is.

That screenshot where one guy killed the ogre group in one shot solo was just too much.

Monk is cheap enough for me, who needs a barb? ;P

[Longknife]

Because of higher crit chance (threatening presence + brute force), frenzy, blooded and ocasionally bloodlust. No contest.

 

One stands alone is currently bugged, but when fixed it should give atleast 20% more dmg which is still alot.

 

Nothing you named actually factors into Higher crit chance, or does so minimally.

 

Even so, you're failing to realize that you're arguing the barbarian has higher crit chance. HOW?  This is practically impossible, because the Monk is "critting" with every Torment's Reach, which he is spamming out at every .5 second interval. It's a move that adds as much damage as a critical but isn't actually a critical, meaning it too can critical and hit even harder. The Monk also naturally has better accuracy and therefore better crit rate.

 

 

Barbarian can easily outdamage Monk when surrounded and able to exploit his AOE melee, but if we're talking single target, I dare say Monk is the champion amongst all the classes for killing singular targets the fastest.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Longknife

[MoxyWoo]

Barbarian because mo-R-k doesn't exist. 

[Climhazzard]

I'll chime in that monk matches and beats barbarian on single target damage, a reach barbarian beats a monk on aoe though, as well as previously mentioned cheesy retaliation/one stands alone builds.  When considering threatening presence + brute force you should keep in mind the fact that the majority of enemies in this game have higher fortitude scores than they do deflection scores, which pretty much negates 2 talent picks against those enemies, just read through the stat scores in the bestiary if you don't believe me.  You'll benefit from them, but not all the time, monks on the other hand have 5 more accuracy than barbs which works against every enemy in the game.  Threatening presence is extra utility outside of dps though since it is lowering fortitude scores.

 

Anyways, i can tell that this discussion is just going to boil down to lovers of each class arguing about why their class is the best.  For the record, monk is mine.

[nemesis205bw]

So now AOE melee is exploit?

 

There is no way you can spam torments reach every half second unless you are getting your ass kicked hard (which shouldnt happen because you are dps not tank).

 

Barb can easily get 30 bonus accuracy with brute force + weakened and sickened status. Just threatening presence and priest in team. Also frenzy is MUCH better then swift strikes. And when you add blooded and bloodlust its additional 50% dps increase (1.25*1.2).

 

I dare say Monk is the champion amongst all the classes for killing singular targets the fastest.

You are kidding right? Cipher has the highest single target (as well as aoe) dps in the game. Rogue and chanter (with 2 ogres out and spamming dragon thrashed) easily outdamage monk as well. 

[nemesis205bw]

I'll chime in that monk matches and beats barbarian on single target damage, a reach barbarian beats a monk on aoe though, as well as previously mentioned cheesy retaliation/one stands alone builds.  When considering threatening presence + brute force you should keep in mind the fact that the majority of enemies in this game have higher fortitude scores than they do deflection scores, which pretty much negates 2 talent picks against those enemies, just read through the stat scores in the bestiary if you don't believe me.  You'll benefit from them, but not all the time, monks on the other hand have 5 more accuracy than barbs which works against every enemy in the game.  Threatening presence is extra utility outside of dps though since it is lowering fortitude scores.

 

Anyways, i can tell that this discussion is just going to boil down to lovers of each class arguing about why their class is the best.  For the record, monk is mine.

I checked it many times and it seems most troublesome enemies have higher deflection.

[Climhazzard]

Huh I think monk is going to kill everything on the screen before a chanter has 2 ogres out, just saying.

[nemesis205bw]

Huh I think monk is going to kill everything on the screen before a chanter has 2 ogres out, just saying.

Same with barb before monk gets enough wounds. We are talking about maximum possible dps.

[Climhazzard]

 

Huh I think monk is going to kill everything on the screen before a chanter has 2 ogres out, just saying.

Same with barb before monk gets enough wounds. We are talking about maximum possible dps.

 

 

 

If you are using one stands alone + retaliation then yeah, barb wins np, if you think thats legit and not bugged, well have fun with it.

[MadDemiurg]

Gonna chime in.

 

With bugs -> barb no contest

 

Without bugs -> Overall still barb, but monk has a small edge single target I think

[nemesis205bw]

Without bugs -> Overall still barb, but monk has a small edge single target I think

And where that edge comes from?

[MadDemiurg]

 

Without bugs -> Overall still barb, but monk has a small edge single target I think

And where that edge comes from?

 

Well, barb has only frenzy (+33 atk speed for quite short duration), blooded (situational, +20% dmg) and one stands alone(presumably +20% damage once it is fixed, right now it is in the "don't take if you don't want to break the game category",  and also a bit situational) for single target.

 

Monk has swift strikes (+25% atk speed, likely larger uptime than frenzy) and torments reach (+50% damage, needs wound) or alternatively turning wheel (+5% dmg per wound passively, can easily be 20-40% in each fight).

 

Monks bonuses look a bit weaker but they are less situational. Plus this ignores the fact that fists, while universally being bashed on these forums, are the highest base dps weapon in the game on monk, and are only lacking in special properties. However, for a large part of the game you won't have a better weapon tbh.

 

So all in all, I think monk has a small edge. With carnage barb still does more total damage though.

Edited April 15, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[nemesis205bw]

 

 

Without bugs -> Overall still barb, but monk has a small edge single target I think

And where that edge comes from?

 

Well, barb has only frenzy (+33 atk speed for quite short duration), blooded (situational, +20% dmg) and one stands alone(presumably +20% damage once it is fixed, right now it is in the "don't take if you don't want to break the game category",  and also a bit situational) for single target.

 

Monk has swift strikes (+25% atk speed, likely larger uptime than frenzy) and torments reach (+50% damage, needs wound) or alternatively turning wheel (+5% dmg per wound passively, can easily be 20-40% in each fight).

 

Monks bonuses look a bit weaker but they are less situational. Plus this ignores the fact that fists, while universally being bashed on these forums, are the highest base dps weapon in the game on monk, and are only lacking in special properties. However, for a large part of the game you won't have a better weapon tbh.

 

So all in all, I think monk has a small edge. With carnage barb still does more total damage though.

 

Dont count torments reach at the same time as turning wheel... Monk is no less situational because most of his dps requires him to get hit.

 

You can have 2 frenzy uses per encounter which is much stronger then monk buffs and you can start fight with it unlike monk. You also forgot about bloodlust which is active most of the time on regular encounters. Brute force is huge damage boost too.

 

Also its funny how you completely ignore 6 might boost from frenzy which is 18% more dmg.

Edited April 15, 2015 by nemesis205bw

[peddroelm]

 Plus this ignores the fact that fists, while universally being bashed on these forums, are the highest base dps weapon in the game on monk, and are only lacking in special properties. However, for a large part of the game you won't have a better weapon tbh.

 

 

Sadly they are not . 10-15 base damage on monk. Transcendent suffering adds flat damage after additive multipliers are applied  (it does not add to base damage before that step as I would've hoped) .. 

[nemesis205bw]

 

 Plus this ignores the fact that fists, while universally being bashed on these forums, are the highest base dps weapon in the game on monk, and are only lacking in special properties. However, for a large part of the game you won't have a better weapon tbh.

 

 

Sadly they are not . 10-15 base damage on monk. Transcendent suffering adds flat damage after additive multipliers are applied  (it does not add to base damage before that step as I would've hoped) .. 

 

Fist monk is just like shapeshift druid. Viable only in the early beginning of the game. Later on any enchanted weapon outshrine fists by miles.

Edited April 15, 2015 by nemesis205bw

[Climhazzard]

Fists at endgame do the same damage as average speed weapons, with the same attack speed as fast speed weapons, they equal superb weapons, lash enchant included.  It's not until you factor in endurance drain and +crit that they are outshined, but saying "outshine fists by miles" is a huge exaggeration. 

Edited April 15, 2015 by Climhazzard

[peddroelm]

 

 

 Plus this ignores the fact that fists, while universally being bashed on these forums, are the highest base dps weapon in the game on monk, and are only lacking in special properties. However, for a large part of the game you won't have a better weapon tbh.

 

 

Sadly they are not . 10-15 base damage on monk. Transcendent suffering adds flat damage after additive multipliers are applied  (it does not add to base damage before that step as I would've hoped) .. 

 

Fist monk is just like shapeshift druid. Viable only in the early beginning of the game. Later on any enchanted weapon outshrine fists by miles.

 

that is not quite true either .. They do scale (gain +accuracy and flat additive damage)  and have fastest attack speed.. I think only multiple enchantment endgame unique weapons have a serious edge over monk fists ..

[nemesis205bw]

 

 

 

 Plus this ignores the fact that fists, while universally being bashed on these forums, are the highest base dps weapon in the game on monk, and are only lacking in special properties. However, for a large part of the game you won't have a better weapon tbh.

 

 

Sadly they are not . 10-15 base damage on monk. Transcendent suffering adds flat damage after additive multipliers are applied  (it does not add to base damage before that step as I would've hoped) .. 

 

Fist monk is just like shapeshift druid. Viable only in the early beginning of the game. Later on any enchanted weapon outshrine fists by miles.

 

that is not quite true either .. They do scale (gain +accuracy and flat additive damage)  and have fastest attack speed.. I think only multiple enchantment endgame unique weapons have a serious edge over monk fists ..

 

Any weapon with elemental enchant does the job better...

[Longknife]

Any weapon with elemental enchant does the job better...

 

 

Even if this were true, it fails to factor in that Torment's Reach spam = ridiculous amounts of damage. Any monk can easily do this.

[nemesis205bw]

 

Any weapon with elemental enchant does the job better...

 

 

Even if this were true, it fails to factor in that Torment's Reach spam = ridiculous amounts of damage. Any monk can easily do this.

 

So +50% dmg per hit is ridiculous amount of damage?