A versatile paladin build

[Crystal]

I wander if is possible a DPS Paladin not specialized in any type of weapons (two handed, marksman, etc), that can be able to use all kind of stuff out there.

 

I have two possible orders: Goldpact Knights (+Fire) and Bleak Walkers (+Corrode) this last one looks interesting because the variety of damage (If I found creatures with high fire immunity), but I have two problems with it:

 

1) I don't like to play its alignment (aggressive, cruel). Is that important to the lore or is just there to define a build?

2) Do I need a special weapon to have that corrode bonuses?

 

This is the build:

 

Human - Deadfire Archipelago (to hit more)

 

Attributes

Might 18 (+24% Damage +16 Fort)

Constitution 10

Dexterity 20 (+30% Speed +20 Reflex)

Perception 10

Intellect 10

Resolve  10

 

Abilities

Faith and Conviction

Flames of Devotion (+Fire damage)

Zealous Focus (having average INT mainly is to buff myself)

Sworn Enemy

Liberated Exhortation

Righteous Soul

Haste Exhortation

 

Talents

Intense Flames (+Fire Damage)

Remember Rakhan  (+Corrode Damage) — for Goldpact Enduring Flames (+Fire over time)

Critical Focus

Scion of Flame (+Burn Damage)

Spirit of Decay (+Corrode Damage) — for Goldpact Envenomed Strike

Bloody Slaughter

 

The final Flames of Devotion damage would be:

[Weapon Damage] + 24% (Might) +100% Fire (Flames) +50% Corrode (Enduring) +20% Fire (Scion) +20% Corrode (Spirit)

 

for Goldpact:

[Weapon Damage] + 24% (Might) +100% Fire (Flames) +10 (Enduring) +20% Fire (Scion)

 

What do you think? Is a useful build to play Hard with the lore companions?

 

[Lasci]

Sticking to the order's dogma in dialogue options will give the main character a (significant) defensive boost.

 

There's honestly not reason not to get the 15% increased attack from two-handed style. I'm not convinced either of the utility talents is worth it, especially not the corrode. Scion changes the damage on Flames of Devotion to +120% fire (100% + 20% of 100% = 120%) versus the corrode, which changes it to a measly 55% (50% + 20% of 50% = 55%). Definitely drop the corrode talent for a flat 15% increase from two-handed style.

 

Dwarf or aumaua would probably be better than human, too.

[mazeltov]

Liberating Exhortation

 

One thing about this ability. If you're really on top of your micro 110% of the time I guess it could be useful against the most dangerous afflictions, like Petrify. But most afflictions aren't dangerous enough or don't last long enough to warrant the mental effort required to "temporarily suspend" the effect on an ally. I had this ability from level 4-5 onward and honestly only ever thought to use it against the most annoying afflictions of all: Dominate and Confusion. But because the ability only works on "friendly targets," and party members aren't considered friendly while Dominated or Confused, you can't use the ability on them! If the patch fixes this, then the ability would be okay-ish, but still only worth taking toward the lategame.

 

Reviving Exhort on the other hand is good, because Knockout is bad, and you'll always remember to use revive right away, 'cause your characters will be sprawled out on the ground red-faced.

[MadDemiurg]

You've spent like 4 talents on ability that you can use twice per encounter and that can easily miss. Not that wise imo.

[Layne66]

You've spent like 4 talents on ability that you can use twice per encounter and that can easily miss. Not that wise imo.

Gotta agree on this one, unless they patch in a free 10 accuracy to it like most spells, it's a really meh move to me.

[Ninjerk]

Paladins really are neither well-equipped to be counted on for damage, nor can they be built to be particularly effective at it compared to other classes.  I think Bleak Walkers and Kind Wayfarers are particularly weak because at least one of each of their order's particular class ability enhancing talents rely upon them striking a killing blow when they're not terribly effective at delivering damage in the first place.  It doesn't help that they also have to spend talents to get to that point.  (In my personal opinion, Paladins could use a retool).

 

If you're going to go with a paladin, I would suggest choosing Shieldbearers of St. Elcga and buffing up Lay On Hands to save allies while providing passive +Acc/Spd/DR and being able to offtank in a pinch provided you're RPing it in a way that is consistent with the order (Darcozzi and Kind Wayfarers could be okay too depending on how much KW's Flames of Devotion heals and how much Accuracy Darcozzi give to their Liberating Exhortation target, imagine popping cooldowns on a barbarian teammate and they can't be stopped until LE is over).

[mazeltov]

Fighters get a +1 uses per encounter talent for their key active, Knockdown. Why no talent like that for Pally Flames? Step it up Balance Man.

[eubatham]

Fighters get a +1 uses per encounter talent for their key active, Knockdown. Why no talent like that for Pally Flames? Step it up Balance Man.

 

It's disheartening that Paladins are still stuck with the base 2/encounter Flames of Devotion even at level 12. A solution would be that Paladins get 1-2 more charges from increasing their order's alignment. Maybe even give players a choice at level 1 to either add more charges to Flames of Devotion or improve Faith and Conviction through behavior. Another possible solution would be for Intense Flames and the order specific Flame of Devotion improvement talent to add 1 charge each.

 

But there are also other issues that should be looked at when it comes to Paladins, in all honesty. For example the range of aura's is pathetic, even with 18 int they barely cover melee range. They should be base 4.5 meters base or something close to that. There are many more issues similar to that, making the Paladin seem not too hot when directly compared to other classes at the moment. But maybe we should create a separate thread to go into detail? 

Edited April 8, 2015 by eubatham

[Wogwoggle]

One thing to remember with Flames of Devotion is that the bonus damage it provides is calculated from the total damage of the roll (after all the additive bonuses have been applied, including crit), before any DR is taken into account.

[Ninjerk]

 

Fighters get a +1 uses per encounter talent for their key active, Knockdown. Why no talent like that for Pally Flames? Step it up Balance Man.

 

It's disheartening that Paladins are still stuck with the base 2/encounter Flames of Devotion even at level 12. A solution would be that Paladins get 1-2 more charges from increasing their order's alignment. Maybe even give players a choice at level 1 to either add more charges to Flames of Devotion or improve Faith and Conviction through behavior. Another possible solution would be for Intense Flames and the order specific Flame of Devotion improvement talent to add 1 charge each.

 

But there are also other issues that should be looked at when it comes to Paladins, in all honesty. For example the range of aura's is pathetic, even with 18 int they barely cover melee range. They should be base 4.5 meters base or something close to that. There are many more issues similar to that, making the Paladin seem not too hot when directly compared to other classes at the moment. But maybe we should create a separate thread to go into detail? 

 

I've considered making a thread about it.  They really dropped the ball with this class.

[Wogwoggle]

If you do end up wanting to either of the builds you have above, I would strongly recommend (in the case of the Bleak Walker) dropping the +20% (spirit) corrode talent in exchange for a weapon focus talent (which ever group of weapons you feel gives the best versatility).  The accuracy boost will be more significant than the slight boost to damage. 

[Layne66]

If you do end up wanting to either of the builds you have above, I would strongly recommend (in the case of the Bleak Walker) dropping the +20% (spirit) corrode talent in exchange for a weapon focus talent (which ever group of weapons you feel gives the best versatility).  The accuracy boost will be more significant than the slight boost to damage. 

Exactly, you need as much accuracy as you can get to make sure FoD doesn't completely whiff or graze for 20% damage. 20% of 0 damage is still gonna be 0 if you can't hit them.

[C.H.A.R.L.I.E]

scion of decay/spirit of flame does not work with weapon buffs nor with flames of devotion: http://i62.tinypic.com/11to9e8.jpg

 

I played pretty far with a similar build using the bleak walker, as a tank who starts the fight with a 125% damage bonus arbalest shot.

 

What i can say about that is:

 

 - arbalest nerf really devalued this kind of build

 - paladin have horrible accuracy, most of the time that one shot will miss (on PotD)

 - paladin defences scales well, thanks to faith and conviction and

 - roleplaying agressive/cruel is fun

 

 

If you want to play a paladin as main character, i would rather go with kind wayfarer 2handed DPS type who try to get killing blows to activate strange mercy and inspiring triumph. 

Both strange mercy and Sword and the shepherd is affected by might and int. 

Ofcourse you would have to roleplay passionate/benevolent, which is almost as boring as stoic/rational 

[eubatham]

Sticking to the order's dogma in dialogue options will give the main character a (significant) defensive boost.

 

There's honestly not reason not to get the 15% increased attack from two-handed style. I'm not convinced either of the utility talents is worth it, especially not the corrode. Scion changes the damage on Flames of Devotion to +120% fire (100% + 20% of 100% = 120%) versus the corrode, which changes it to a measly 55% (50% + 20% of 50% = 55%). Definitely drop the corrode talent for a flat 15% increase from two-handed style.

 

Dwarf or aumaua would probably be better than human, too.

 

I'd also suggest getting the 15% increased damage when using a 2-handed weapon. Scion of Flame is definitely a superior talent to the corrode talent, considering that it multiplies all fire damage. That is, if you enchant your weapon with burning leash (which you should!) to deal +25% burn damage each hit.

 

Also, keep in mind that Remember Rakhan's corrode damage is additional damage and not multiplicative, as with most things in PoE. This means that +25% corrode damage means that Flames of Devotion will deal +50% burn damage and +25% corrode damage, resulting in +75% overall extra damage. They decided to go for most modifiers to be additive instead of multiplicative because additive is easier to balance.

 

Also, note that certain tooltips are out of date. Flames of devotion was changed just before release to be 2/encounter instead of 1/encounter, while its damage was halved from +100% to +50% burn damage. Abilities like Intense Flames and Remember Rakhan, were also reduced by half. So Intense Flames adds +25% burn damage (so a total of +75%(+50% +25%)) and Remember Rakhan and additional +25% corrode, and not 50% for each talents.

 

So Flames of Devotion would hit for +50% + 25% + 25% (total +100%) if you pick up both traits. With Scion of Flame instead of Remember Rakhan, it would be (+50% +25%) * 1.2 = +90% overall damage added from Flames of Devotion. Keep in mind though, that a weapon enchanted with Burning Leash (an easy to get enchant) adds another +25% burn damage (or +30% with Scion) every hit.

 

edit:

 

scion of decay/spirit of flame does not work with weapon buffs nor with flames of devotion: http://i62.tinypic.com/11to9e8.jpg

 

Welp, guess you can forget about Scion of Flame then!

Edited April 8, 2015 by eubatham

[Layne66]

If you want to play a paladin as main character, i would rather go with kind wayfarer 2handed DPS type who try to get killing blows to activate strange mercy and inspiring triumph. 

Both strange mercy and Sword and the shepherd is affected by might and int. 

Ofcourse you would have to roleplay passionate/benevolent, which is almost as boring as stoic/rational 

 

I don't know about strange mercy, but Sword and the Shepherd is bugged where it will still do 20 endurance heals.

[Judicator]

On the other hand, Shieldbarers can stack up deflection simply by using FoD and Lay on Hands. No need to get the killing blow like Kind Wayfarers.

[C.H.A.R.L.I.E]

 

No, it heals the full amount of what it says in the tooltip. In the combat log it will say [+20 endurance (0,7 second)] and 0,3 second later the bonus (if any) is applied. This is the same as with ancient memory (chanter ability).

 

 

On the other hand, Shieldbarers can stack up deflection simply by using FoD and Lay on Hands. No need to get the killing blow like Kind Wayfarers.

 

Yes but wayfarers ability has a synergy with inspiring triumph and other low endurance/killing blow talents. Shieldbearer is a different build 

 

What i really don't like is that all these abilities affect only party members, not the paladin himself

[Layne66]

I just now tried it and it only says "x affects x with flames of devotion. flames of devotion (0.5 sec)". None appear after and it still says 20 endurance even though i have 20 might. Am I missing something?

 

EDIT: Tried it again closely paying attention to hp values, it does indeed heal for more than 20, but the combat log incorrectly says 20 in my game.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Layne66

[Crystal]

Thanks a lot for all the feedback; I'm really stuck with which class may be more enjoyable to me. I have just understanding and testing some things, apparently with a paladin I will not do great damage, which would be a problem for the kind of character I want.

 

I didn't mentioned that I probably will use this mod, which raises up to 5 Flames of Devotion per encounter, this build looks better considering that?

 

Thank you for the corrections, now analyzing the new input:

 

Bleak Walkers

Weapon 100% physical

Flames of Devotion +50% burn

Intense Flames +25 burn

Remember Rakhan +25% corrode

Scion of Flame +20% burn

Spirit of Decay +20% corrode

TOTAL: 100% physical 90% burn + 30% corrode = 220% overall damage (3 types of damage for creatures immune to fire)

 

Goldpact Knights

Weapon 100% physical

Flames of Devotion +50% burn

Intense Flames +25 burn

Enduring Flames +DoT burn

Scion of Flame +20% burn

Two Handed 15% physical

TOTAL: 115% physical 90% burn +DoT burn = 205% overall damage +DoT burn This build limits my weapon options but does more damage in each hit, also, if the amount of DoT if is more than 15%, Goldpact Wins even using Flames.

 

What is the exactly amount of Enduring Flames damage over time?

 

 

[ErlKing]

Personally I really like Darcozzi Paladini , because:

- Clever is best dialogue option ever, oh how tempting were these lines at woedeca temple (acolyte ritual).

- Liberated Exhortation get bonus buff +10 Acc for 20 sec, its really good buff - fast cast, 2 per encounter, throw it on your cipher or mage at start of combat for better CC

[Infares]

I'm dicking around with a Wood Elf Paladin of the Kind Wayfarers, 18/03/20/16/18/03, uses ranged attacks (currently with a Hunting Bow, but will probably upgrade to a War Bow). I'm essentially using him as a healer thanks to his AoE healing capabilities, either attached to his "The Sword and the Shepherd" or eventually his "Strange Mercy" talent. 

The big problem is, the event is centered on the paladin rather than centered on either the target of his Flames of Devotion or killed enemy respectively, so I think it would be a better build with reach weapons than it is with ranged. It's currently kinda hard to stay 4m away from the enemy while staying within TSatS/SM range of the front line. It's doable but you can't always place your ranged paladin exactly in that window.

[Shadenuat]

After trying a few builds and checking on all orders I went with fire godlike, darcozzi flames & scion of flame, as well as a bunch of blessings - one with deflection (throw it on tank) and speed (throw it on my barb), revive (too good to pass up in any build) with upgraded Zealous Aura. I think it's more or less balanced build that has some supporting abilities and an interesting damage twist combined with extra protection. Can also throw fire spells through that paladin.

 

Although it's telling that inherent race ability ends up better than most of paladin class abilities.

I tried making a decent healer out of paladin but he'll never be able to replace cleric unless Obsidian will triple lay on hands effect and allow more uses per combat, as well as quintiple Kind Wayfarer's bonuses to healing through damage.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Shadenuat