Will saves and other questions

[AnjyBelle]

Perhaps I'm thinking too much in AD&D-categories when it comes to saves during battle.

 

Nevertheless, I wonder how exactly this is calculated in PoE.

 

Example:

 

My monk is currently level 11. She has a base INT of 10, buffed with items and from an inn it may reach 14-15.

She wears all these rings of protection and has as a trait "mental fortress" or the like.

 

Her current defenses are 69 / 82 / 82 / 72.

 

She seems indead to be unstoppable and goes down hardly. But...

 

...every idiot mushroom and it's mother can "turn" her (charm or whatever it is called). Of course the same happens, if an enemy

spellcaster has the corresponding spell.

 

I don't wonder about the rest of my party, but the leader with these def-stats?

 

But maybe I am totally wrong and her def-stats are not really good or I don't understand the mechanics at all.

 

Perhaps someone could enlighten me, if there is even a will save against charm-spells and if yes, how is it calculated.

 

Don't get me wrong: I'm not whining like "omg....my monk can be charmed...I gimped her, I must start over..BAD EVIL OSIDIAN !!!"

 

Nothing against an enemy cipher who succeeds with his spell over my monk's resistances. Such is life.

 

But these mushrooms? When I get close, they are dead with one or two hits. They qualify perfectly for the title "annoying critter" and shouldn't be more than a short nuisance.

 

 

Weapon damage

 

If I understood correctly, then it works like this:

 

When a weapon has several dmg-types like the great sword, then only one is applied on hit, in particuar the one which hits the lowest res.

 

What happens, when I add a third dmg-type by enchanting the weapon? Will the elemental dmg hit always or only then when the target's highest weakness happens to be agains this element?

 

Example:

 

A weapon has slash / pierce and I add fire. The target's lowest res is against pierce, so the pierce attack would hit.

Because the enemy is very vulnerable to fire would both pierce and fire hit?

 

[Lasci]

Scroll over the attack to see what the enemy's accuracy was.

 

The thing about PoE is that defenses are more of a cushion than an actual barrier. You can have fifty more defense than an enemy's accuracy and they're still going to occasionally be able to graze you despite it. You're rolling d100's here, not d20's and you also have grazes, which means that 'not hitting' sometimes just means doing half the normal effect.

 

You probably feel like charms are so strong because they have such a huge effect when they graze, whereas most normal attacks against your tank are probably grazing and then being reduced enough by your DR to look like they're misses.

[AnjyBelle]

What I mean about these charms, confuse-spells and the like is the impression, that they seem to be unresistable, no matter how many sides my dice have.

 

I scroll through the log after a fight but never found an entry like

"Enemy X attempts to cast <charm, confuse etc> on companion Y; Companion Y (D100 - whatever...) failed / succeeded to save..."

 

Even the Griefing Mother with VERY high INT is victim to these spells on a regular base. IMO there is something ...intransparent.

[gkathellar]

Yeah, Domination and Charm seem like something is wrong with them. It's not clear that there's a bug, but you're not the first person to mention that they always seem to hit.

[AnjyBelle]

But besides that the corresponding spells of e.g. the Griefing Mother seem to have a a noticeable miss-chance.

 

It's always hard to tell, because the "battle fields" are somewhat unclear.  Sometimes I see an enemy with a green circle, mostly I see no results at all.

 

Unlike my leader I've never seen the leader of an enemy gang being charmed / confused etc. So, they seem to be - as always - resistant to these kinds of spells.

[Lasci]

Yeah, Domination and Charm seem like something is wrong with them. It's not clear that there's a bug, but you're not the first person to mention that they always seem to hit.

 

No?

 

It's entirely possible that the creature charming you has somewhere around 15 accuracy more than your deflection, which means that it's either extremely rare or outright impossible for them to miss.

 

You still get hit with status effects on a graze, they just last less time.

 

You guys are thinking about this like we're playing D&D and the creature has a to-hit roll to do damage and then an added effect that targets your Will defense. It doesn't. There's a single attack against your deflection (or whatever defense is listed in the spell) and if that grazes, hits, or crits, it has a status effect that lasts 50%, 100%, or 150% of the duration respectively.

 

Like I said, scroll over the attack on your combat log.

[AnjyBelle]

Well, you see it just the other way around:

 

The consequence would be, that every mushroom has a 15 higher accuracy than my deflection.

 

As posted above, my monk has 72 will-"deflection" without her personal buff (the one which can be switched from physical to mental protection).

 

If I understood correctly, then it is INT which influences the accuracy of spells? If so, then we have lots of Einstein-like mushrooms in PoE 

 

Whatever it might be, a mushroom shouldn't have stats like that. Nothing against the occasional hit, but they hit always.

[Lasci]

The mushroom's charm is against deflection.

 

Accuracy isn't affected by any of the attributes. I think everyone gains +3 for every level? I'm sure the enemies in this game have custom tweaked values.

[dirigible]

If I understood correctly, then it is INT which influences the accuracy of spells? If so, then we have lots of Einstein-like mushrooms in PoE 

That's not really how it works.

Each class has its own accuracy rating (and each monster does too). That accuracy is used whether it's attempting to charm you, trip you, punch you, or shoot you.

 

So lets say that your monk has 72 will, and the 'shroom has 52 accuracy. That means it will miss you 35% of the time (meaning no effect), it will graze you 35% of the time (meaning you're charmed, but for half the duration), and it will hit you 30% of the time (you get charmed for the full duration).

 

So even with accuracy that's 20 less than your defense, you're still going to get charmed 65% of the time.

[Emptiness]

Int has no effect on the accuracy of spells.  It affects the size of AoE's and the duration of effects.

 

PoE doesn't have saving throws, so it is very difficult to prevent an enemy effect from taking place.  Raising your defenses is the best you can do, because that will decrease the odds of a crit (which will increase the duration) or a hit (which has normal duration) and increase the odds of a graze (reduced duration) or an actual miss (which is what it takes for your character to be unaffected).

 

Fortunately, the reverse is also true, so you can charm and dominate enemies and there really isn't anything they can do about it.

 

PS:

When fighting mushrooms, note that some of the mushrooms are mobile and some of the mushrooms are not.  If you fight the ones that can move somewhere other than where the ones that are immobile are, then the fight becomes much easier.

 

Edited April 8, 2015 by Emptiness

[AnjyBelle]

 

If I understood correctly, then it is INT which influences the accuracy of spells? If so, then we have lots of Einstein-like mushrooms in PoE 

That's not really how it works.

Each class has its own accuracy rating (and each monster does too). That accuracy is used whether it's attempting to charm you, trip you, punch you, or shoot you.

 

So lets say that your monk has 72 will, and the 'shroom has 52 accuracy. That means it will miss you 35% of the time (meaning no effect), it will graze you 35% of the time (meaning you're charmed, but for half the duration), and it will hit you 30% of the time (you get charmed for the full duration).

 

So even with accuracy that's 20 less than your defense, you're still going to get charmed 65% of the time.

 

Ok, I see my misinterpretation of INT.

 

Nevertheless, IMO this is something to be looked at.

 

65% success rate for a common mob just doesn't feel right.

 

Please, I realize that this is not a big issue, because if the mushrooms charm my party or not, the fights are easy to win, especially

when you "pull" them away from their stationary buddies.

 

Perhaps I am still thinking too much in categories like spell-DC, D20-saves and how many times my bards / sorcs / wizards in a D&D

game missed with their charm spells (80% ?)

[peddroelm]

In PoE terms - for balance sake // work more inline with what the OP expects from previous IE games - charm type of spells should come with a negative Accuracy modifier  (-20 or -40 for the more powerfull ones) (go make a feature/mod request )  .. That would significantly lower their chance of success ..

 

(not sure the example you picked to argue this is best picked - shrooms (even in small doses) can really mess with someones head )

 

Other stats on the monsters using them could be bumped up to compensate ..

Edited April 8, 2015 by peddroelm