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Being overpowered or underpowered is irrelevant to the actual logical flaw of the system.  The current system is simply flawed.  Even people who like the delay must at some point admit at some point that once the delay reaches a certain length things become worthless.  How about this,  we put in a special invocation and it works like this.  If you wait for 40 hours you can cast the invocation and automatically clear whatever current map you are on of all monsters instantly.

 

That would be the most overpowered ability in the game and only crazy people would use it.  We could instead have an invocation that takes 40 hours and only summon fluffy bunnies.  This would be one of the least powerful abilities in the game and again only crazy people would use it.   Functionally the same and independent of power.  The power is a moot point since no one would use or could have cleared the map in far less time anyway.  Fine I will grant you they could not have otherwise have gotten fluffy bunnies (or could they ...)

 

Obviously this is absurb.  But the absurd is useful for illustrative purposes.  Yes summons are strong.  Yes the current times are part of the way the class was balanced.

 

None of this changes the consequences of the way the numbers will work out.  Its flawed and it will fail if its extended.

Maybe the average engagement will last longer as well? I agree to some extent but i think if they shorten the times they will have to have some way to balance it. I think a sliding scale would be useful, chanters can modify how fast they chant but their defensive stats and movement speed are also tied to this slider, If you set it so that you get 4 chants in 4 seconds you have to suffer being 8 times more defenceless (and will die from like one arrow)

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well, weapon damage isn't that high, and the ranges are fairly limited, so if they just say, doubled the health of all enemies on hard mode and above, that alone wold make fights last longer, and require much more tactical thinking, and make the pacing of the chanters fit much better into your battle plans.

if you EXPECT your average fight to last say, 6-10 turns, you know that your chanter is always going to get at least one invoke in there, and you can really plan your chants with much better tactical sense.

seriously, having played this game for days now, the easiest thing to fix a ton of complaints would simply be to add more health to everything.

 

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well, weapon damage isn't that high, and the ranges a. . . re fairly limited, so if they just say, doubled the health of all enemies on hard mode and above, that alone wold make fights last longer, and require much more tactical thinking, and make the pacing of the chanters fit much better into your battle plans.

 

if you EXPECT your average fight to last say, 6-10 turns, you know that your chanter is always going to get at least one invoke in there, and you can really plan your chants with much better tactical sense.

 

seriously, having played this game for days now, the easiest thing to fix a ton of complaints would simply be to add more health to everything.

 

 

People have been trying to get obsidian to make changes to make battles longer all through the entirety of the beta. They didn't consider it in the slightest then, so I wouldn't hold your breath for anything related to making encounters longer.

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well, weapon damage isn't that high, and the ranges are fairly limited, so if they just say, doubled the health of all enemies on hard mode and above, that alone wold make fights last longer, and require much more tactical thinking, and make the pacing of the chanters fit much better into your battle plans.

 

if you EXPECT your average fight to last say, 6-10 turns, you know that your chanter is always going to get at least one invoke in there, and you can really plan your chants with much better tactical sense.

 

seriously, having played this game for days now, the easiest thing to fix a ton of complaints would simply be to add more health to everything.

 

 

That might cause a problem with per day resources. I mean, assuming you care about resting...

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A SIMPLE TRICK EVERYONE CAN USE TO CAST BIG INVOCATIONS OFTEN:

 

1. Locate a group of enemies (encounter).

2. Locate a second group of enemies (encounter).

3. Engage the first group.

4. As you are about to clear the first group, send someone to provoke the second group.

5. Cast the high level invocation. Summons work best.

 

The downside is you won't be getting your per-encounter abilities back and your Endurance may be drained. That is not necessarily a problem if you have fighters, monks or chanters in your group.

Edited by b0rsuk
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Here's a thought:

How about increasing the Phrase costs of higher level Invocations BUT also increase the amount of recources higher level Phrases grant?

 

Like a level 3 Phrase taking long (but not as long as three 1st level phrases) but giving you 3 "Phrase-points" so you could immediately use a level 1 invocation afterwards.

 

Exact numbers need tweaking of course (amount of phrase-points granted, casting time of phrases and cost of invocations) but it would allow both more frequent use of (low level) Invocations at higher level while still not making the high level invocations sooner.

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A SIMPLE TRICK EVERYONE CAN USE TO CAST BIG INVOCATIONS OFTEN:

 

1. Locate a group of enemies (encounter).

2. Locate a second group of enemies (encounter).

3. Engage the first group.

4. As you are about to clear the first group, send someone to provoke the second group.

5. Cast the high level invocation. Summons work best.

 

The downside is you won't be getting your per-encounter abilities back and your Endurance may be drained. That is not necessarily a problem if you have fighters, monks or chanters in your group.

this is exactly why there should be some kind of limit on summons, a 6 chanter team can clear pretty much any map without moving from the first encounter using this, i killed the spider boss over by maerwald lol

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A SIMPLE TRICK EVERYONE CAN USE TO CAST BIG INVOCATIONS OFTEN:

 

1. Locate a group of enemies (encounter).

2. Locate a second group of enemies (encounter).

3. Engage the first group.

4. As you are about to clear the first group, send someone to provoke the second group.

5. Cast the high level invocation. Summons work best.

 

The downside is you won't be getting your per-encounter abilities back and your Endurance may be drained. That is not necessarily a problem if you have fighters, monks or chanters in your group.

this is exactly why there should be some kind of limit on summons, a 6 chanter team can clear pretty much any map without moving from the first encounter using this, i killed the spider boss over by maerwald lol

 

 

I believe I've found an elegant limitation to this! How about...

 

Each invocation can be only be used once per encounter.

 

This would mean you can only summon Ogres once per combat. If you wish to keep summoning, you would have to summon Skeletons next, or Wurms, or Will-o-Wisps, or a spectre.

 

A limit like this would enforce diversity in combat. Instead of thinking which summon to spam, you would think in what order to cast your 6 or so invocations. Multi-chanter parties would be limited, and forced to specialize those chanters. One guy summons a drake, another does a tidal wave. It would also serve as a hard limit of how much a single chanter can do in combat. After a very long time he would be reduced to phrases. On the other hand, he would still be able to use all invocations per encounter.

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