Eldritch Knight equivalent?

[CaptainMace]

Chanter is the only thing close.

 

Which IMO is fine. D&D caster/melee juggernaut hybrids were always a bit too "I want everything in one package" making the actual fighter-ish classes kinda pointless. Clerics were basically superior fighters - as long their buffs were up - and with heals, debuff, CC, nukes.

 

 

 

I haven't tried at all, though anybody knows what would a more-or-less mix-maxed wizard with high Perception,Intellect, Resolve would do ?

The idea is to max out the bonus deflection and duration of self buffs, leaving constitution, might and dexterity behind. Spells would obviously be about self buffs, summoned weapons and close range burst and aoe's.

 

How would that work, considering the extreme feebleness of the wizards upfront ?

 

It pretty much wouldn't work. Dropping might and dex means your damage would be terrible so what's the point in buffing yourself for close range burst exactly?

 

You'd be a ~somewhat less likely to be hit wizard with terrible damage output and slow spell casts.

 

You make it sound like the wizard would do half damage. If you put 6 in might, you'd only lose ~10% of base damage...

Now what I find terrible is a battlemage with the deflection of... well a wizard of PoE. I think a permanent +30 deflection is way more impactful than -10% damage. Without mentioning the spells with base damage that might doesn't affect, like the third level concelhaut drain one.

I think it's worth the test, because the main stat that is difficult to self-buff with the wizard is deflection. Beside Lengrath displaced image at level 5, I don't think there's a way to buff it up.

 

Well unless a battlemage is something else than a tanky frontline spellcaster (which is what I have in mind right now), then any wizard would be a battlemage now, wouldn't he.

[Anthony Stark]

It should be noted that scrolls and potions are relatively cheap to produce in this game, and can be used by any class with enough Lore, so it's easy to just make something like a Paladin who uses Scrolls of Fan of Flames to replicate the effect.

[lyin321]

It should be noted that scrolls and potions are relatively cheap to produce in this game, and can be used by any class with enough Lore, so it's easy to just make something like a Paladin who uses Scrolls of Fan of Flames to replicate the effect.

 

 That is nice detail to remember because (especially if you can make them often) there are some craftable potions that have the same effects as your precious (at least untill you get to per encounter) spells....and scrolls ofcourse....and you can cheaply craft ''restore light endurance'' which is bugged imo and is a must have!

 

.....and very good advice for paladins as they are quite boring class otherwise:)

Edited April 4, 2015 by lyin321

[Molcho]

 

I think about 39. Wizards have pathetic stats, but the buffs will mitigate that just fine.

 

There are two main issues with this:

1.  The first "sustainable" Deflection-boosting spell that Wizards can get is Llengrath's Displaced Image, available at level 5 (and with only 4 casts at level 7). That's a fairly long time to be waiting for a solid Deflection score. This also precludes you from actually using Tier 3 and below spells for offensive/CC purposes, since you mainly have to spend them on improving your defense or offense instead.
2. Wizard buffs do not stack with the buffs of other party members, meaning that, unlike other classes, you won't get the increased benefits of Circle of Protection (for Deflection, at least)/Scroll of Valor.

It's not that you can't get into melee combat as a Wizard, but that there aren't a lot of good reasons to (save for 1/encounter Grimoire Slam).

 

 

I suppose that comes down to your preference. For some people actually making it work is reason enough to do it.

 

As for issue Nr. 1: Arcane Veil (Hardened Veil) will bridge the time till lvl 5 easily and, from there on, turn you into a pseudo-tank (for 13 seconds, at least). Also, there are still the two weaker deflection granting spells at level 1 and 2 respectively - they are not great, though. 

 

Nr.2 is not an issue if you aren't trying to use other spells in the first place. Having an exceptional weapon with fairly high damage from lvl 1 on, which also comes with draining and x1.8 reach is a very good reason to get into close combat. 

[Ichthyic]

 

I think a permanent +30 deflection is way more impactful than -10% damage.

the problem with your thinking here, is that you're looking at base damage minus, instead of base damage plus.

 

your damage goes up quite a bit if you get your might up a few points past base.

 

Its the difference between one or two shotting with a spell, vs 3 or 4 shotting with the same spell.

 

best defense being a good offense and all... I still say you're better off focusing more on might.

 

mages simply are not well designed to be battlemages in this game.  that's why there are other classes to do this.

 

why force a round peg into a square hole?

 

*shrug*

[Molcho]

 

why force a round peg into a square hole?

 

*shrug*

 

 

Why wear a fancy pink hat, when you could wear a +2 might leather cap?

[lyin321]

 

why force a round peg into a square hole?

 

*shrug*

 

 

 To make round hole ofcourse!

 

 As for the deflection vs might debate: deflection is more important simply because Resolve is something like Charisma...and as everyone agree it is much more important to be charming than to be strong!

 

 Seriously I usually take long time to kill with spell not because of the might (although mine is 13 mind), but because of all the grazes(sp?) I get...

and there are items to give you spell damage...

[gkathellar]

Here's the other issue: a good tank in PoE is not a damage dealer, but an attack sponge. Using a wizard as an attack sponge is both a waste of a sponge, and a waste of a wizard.

 

It's doable, yes, but also thoroughly suboptimal.

[Molcho]

Here's the other issue: a good tank in PoE is not a damage dealer, but an attack sponge. Using a wizard as an attack sponge is both a waste of a sponge, and a waste of a wizard.

 

It's doable, yes, but also thoroughly suboptimal.

 

Of course it isn't optimal, but why would you want to play an optimal character? 

 

Thing is, the wizard can be an amazing tank for a short duration and still dish out damage while doing so. After that you need to adjust accordingly, but if you do it right, the fight is over by then.

 

I can't say how it plays out in later stages of the game or even in PotD, but on Hard Mode it worked out swimmingly so far.  

[CaptainMace]

 

 

I think a permanent +30 deflection is way more impactful than -10% damage.

the problem with your thinking here, is that you're looking at base damage minus, instead of base damage plus.

 

your damage goes up quite a bit if you get your might up a few points past base.

 

Its the difference between one or two shotting with a spell, vs 3 or 4 shotting with the same spell.

 

best defense being a good offense and all... I still say you're better off focusing more on might.

 

mages simply are not well designed to be battlemages in this game.  that's why there are other classes to do this.

 

why force a round peg into a square hole?

 

*shrug*

 

 

True, especially considering the lack of speed of a lower dexterity. It can actually reach -40% damage compared to an optimal damage dealing wizard.

Though my point was, can he survive the frontline with such a setup ? Because with like 3-4 times less health and endurance than frontliners (and without the evasion of the rogue), my concern is more about "would such an extreme min maxing change the fact a wizard usually responds to close encounters by fainting and/or convulsing in his own vomit ?".

Edited April 4, 2015 by CaptainMace

[ChipMHazard]

Here's the other issue: a good tank in PoE is not a damage dealer, but an attack sponge. Using a wizard as an attack sponge is both a waste of a sponge, and a waste of a wizard.

 

It's doable, yes, but also thoroughly suboptimal.

 

Aye what I found from my own test build was that I was forgoing most of my damage spells just to stay alive in melee. The wizard could still deal out some impressive damage, but again it's high maintenance and requires resting quite a bit. 

 

It can be done for those interested. 

Edited April 4, 2015 by ChipMHazard

[gkathellar]

Of course it isn't optimal, but why would you want to play an optimal character?

Why would you want to play a character who is frustratingly ill-suited for their role?

 

All of this aside, I would like to see some more anime fightan magickz in the expansion - multiclassing, more magical abilities for existing melee classes, talents, whatever. I want me some magic sword dudes, and also a ranger skill which transforms their companion into an arrow because BEAR ARROW.

[Molcho]

 

Of course it isn't optimal, but why would you want to play an optimal character?

Why would you want to play a character who is frustratingly ill-suited for their role?

 

All of this aside, I would like to see some more anime fightan magickz in the expansion - multiclassing, more magical abilities for existing melee classes, talents, whatever. I want me some magic sword dudes, and also a ranger skill which transforms their companion into an arrow because BEAR ARROW.

 

 

I wouldn't and it is not the case. Try it out - I've done it and it works.

 

Bear Arrow? Sign me up.

[Magrusaod]

Right, looking like my concept is getting the response of what I expected. The idea isn't a tank wizard, but merely a wizard who can survive the front line, and spray and pray essentially. Key difference between building a tank, and simply surviving the initial several rounds of combat to nuke the field as the enemy comes to you IMO. 

That being said, I'd agree with the Chanter/Cipher responses. I've played both in this game, and tank chanter works great. Cipher is just better than Wizard due to the lack of need for resource management as it stands in this state of the system. 

 

Side note: If this game goes anime style, I'm deleting it and moving on with my life. >.< Eww.

[lyin321]

 The level 1 summoned staff is really powerfull weapon and it gives you extra acc so your wizard don't have problems hitting stuff.

 The problem as I see it is that PoE seems to divide combat and non combat (almost like FF, just without new zones) and unlike bg2 you can't carry your longer buffs to the next battle. Which is only a problem for a few spells, one of which is the staff summon.....

 And by the time that is not problem anymore (lvl 9) it is too late and I am not sure if it will be good enough:)

...and if we had a talant to make 1 low level spell per encounter in lower levels I feel that fighter/wizard would be very practical character to make...

(and it's not like such a talant woulld have been OP.....it actually sound terrible for min/max-ers:)

Edited April 5, 2015 by lyin321

[ChipMHazard]

Right, looking like my concept is getting the response of what I expected. The idea isn't a tank wizard, but merely a wizard who can survive the front line, and spray and pray essentially. Key difference between building a tank, and simply surviving the initial several rounds of combat to nuke the field as the enemy comes to you IMO. 

 

That being said, I'd agree with the Chanter/Cipher responses. I've played both in this game, and tank chanter works great. Cipher is just better than Wizard due to the lack of need for resource management as it stands in this state of the system. 

 

Side note: If this game goes anime style, I'm deleting it and moving on with my life. >.< Eww.

 

You can definently create a flanking wizard. The thing is that, that kind of wizard isn't much different from a normal wizard in that you simply choose the best deflect spell you have available at the time for when you might get targeted... Otherwise you stay in the back and use your reach weapon while improving your aim. You may also want to use non-cone spells if you're behind your companions.  

A wizard that will be able to handle melee duels with enemies is going to be far higher maintenance, even if you don't go full tankiness. It will require you to pick more defensive spells over your damaging ones and perhaps even picking some of the draining spells as well.

Edited April 5, 2015 by ChipMHazard

[lyin321]

You can definently create a flanking wizard. The thing is that, that kind of wizard isn't much different from a normal wizard in that you simply choose the best deflect spell you have available at the time for when you might get targeted... Otherwise you stay in the back and use your reach weapon while improving your aim. You may also want to use non-cone spells if you're behind your companions.  

A wizard that will be able to handle melee duels with enemies is going to be far higher maintenance, even if you don't go full tankiness. It will require you to pick more defensive spells over your damaging ones and perhaps even picking some of the draining spells as well.

 

 

 You can easily create a wizard who can go and more than survive duels...maybe not tank exactly (someone who gets mobbed and live for a long time) ...

...btw cone spells are still not a bad idea. It is easy (and they will still work surprisingly well) to turn the cone away from your party, but still hit 2-3 baddies...

...unless you disable the visual cone ofcourse...then you might have some trouble:)

[ChipMHazard]

 

You can definently create a flanking wizard. The thing is that, that kind of wizard isn't much different from a normal wizard in that you simply choose the best deflect spell you have available at the time for when you might get targeted... Otherwise you stay in the back and use your reach weapon while improving your aim. You may also want to use non-cone spells if you're behind your companions.  

A wizard that will be able to handle melee duels with enemies is going to be far higher maintenance, even if you don't go full tankiness. It will require you to pick more defensive spells over your damaging ones and perhaps even picking some of the draining spells as well.

 

 

 You can easily create a wizard who can go and more than survive duels...maybe not tank exactly (someone who gets mobbed and live for a long time) ...

...btw cone spells are still not a bad idea. It is easy (and they will still work surprisingly well) to turn the cone away from your party, but still hit 2-3 baddies...

...unless you disable the visual cone ofcourse...then you might have some trouble:)

 

 

Did I state that you wouldn't be able to do so easily? It will be higher maintenance and will almost certainly require you to use more defensive spells than if you were to use a reach weapon and stay out of engagement range. Unless you opt for using potions/scrolls more than you might normally do. Relying more on party buffs will of course also make it easier to survive engagements.

It will obviously depend on the situation at hand, won't it?... If you're standing behind your front line tanker and they are in the way, then cone spells probably aren't a good idea. If you're more on the flank or if the tank is surrounded, then yes... Obviously. I'll grant you that there aren't many occasions where it's not possible to wrangle your cone so you only hit the enemy. 

Edited April 5, 2015 by ChipMHazard

[lyin321]

It will obviously depend on the situation at hand, won't it?... If you're standing behind your front line tanker and they are in the way, then cone spells probably aren't a good idea. If you're more on the flank or if the tank is surrounded, then yes... Obviously.

 

 

 Begin to cast fan of flames and then crackling bolt and you will see that fan of flames is much more forgiving in what it target than the 3rd level spell...so no actually...I believe that even if you are behind your tank (you shouldn't be) you can still use cone spell and use them to target few baddies....not as much as high INT wizard (big non FF radius)....

[ChipMHazard]

 

It will obviously depend on the situation at hand, won't it?... If you're standing behind your front line tanker and they are in the way, then cone spells probably aren't a good idea. If you're more on the flank or if the tank is surrounded, then yes... Obviously.

 

 

 Begin to cast fan of flames and then crackling bolt and you will see that fan of flames is much more forgiving in what it target than the 3rd level spell...so no actually...I believe that even if you are behind your tank (you shouldn't be) you can still use cone spell and use them to target few baddies....not as much as high INT wizard (big non FF radius)....

 

 

I agree that you shouldn't be behind your front line... But that was one of the conditions presented. I also agree that it's easier to use cone spells than line spells, but circle spells are even easier when you're behind your front line and of course a high int wizard will be able to make use of the foe aoe of cone spells... But that's hardly a valid point when one of the presented tactics was to stand behind your tank with a reach weapon. 

 

Look. I wouldn't do that personally, if I were to go with a melee wizard. A melee wizard would be better when used to flank, imo. Of course reach weapons could be used when flanking as well. 

As soon as the enemy starts being able to hit back is when you will most probably have to start switching out more offensive spells for more defensive ones. Especially if you actively want to engage in melee. 

Edited April 5, 2015 by ChipMHazard