Controversial Limerick Discussion 2

[Arouet]

 

I think the act of removing it is likely to bring more attention through the Streisand Effect.

 

As for the note itself: I know a few trans people and they would have probably snickered at that because it wasn't mean spirited as presented. More than likely the people making the most stink aren't the victims of the perceived offense.

 

Especially because I've seen the Kill All men dude's picture. If you just showed that to someone there's no way they'd think he was female.

 

Not even in a "can't pass" way, there's no sign he's even trying to look female.

 

And there it is: the response to any criticism of transphobia immediately justifies such criticism.

[DavidHansen]

 

I'm not going to be nice to a man who preeches Kill All Men.

Could have saved us a lot of trouble just saying that you were a transphobe instead of dressing it up in that whole freedom of speech cloak.

 

 

Please avoid calling people "transphobe" for reacting negatively to "kill all men". 

[Arouet]

 

 

I'm not going to be nice to a man who preeches Kill All Men.

Could have saved us a lot of trouble just saying that you were a transphobe instead of dressing it up in that whole freedom of speech cloak.

 

 

Please avoid calling people "transphobe" for reacting negatively to "kill all men". 

 

 

 

 

Especially because I've seen the Kill All men dude's picture. If you just showed that to someone there's no way they'd think he was female.

 

Not even in a "can't pass" way, there's no sign he's even trying to look female.

 

Are you going to keep pretending or are you going to admit that this is what it is?

[Serdan]

Now, the person who originally tweeted that complaint consistently comes across as a sociopathic monster in her tweets. So maybe Obsidian should not have treated a tweet from a person like that seriously. On the other hand, Obsidian couldn't necessarily know that this person was like that. 

 

Link?

[themanclaw]

So I'm seeing an argument with one side being apologetic for the idea of murdering half the species for the sex they're born with, and on the other side, a few people being transphobic. Well, I lean less toward the genocide apologist, but I'd also rather not be transphobic, and address people by th sex they identify with. However, it seems like nauance is often lost in these kinds of discussions.

[mindswayer]

 

 

I think the act of removing it is likely to bring more attention through the Streisand Effect.

 

As for the note itself: I know a few trans people and they would have probably snickered at that because it wasn't mean spirited as presented. More than likely the people making the most stink aren't the victims of the perceived offense.

 

Especially because I've seen the Kill All men dude's picture. If you just showed that to someone there's no way they'd think he was female.

 

Not even in a "can't pass" way, there's no sign he's even trying to look female.

 

And there it is: the response to any criticism of transphobia immediately justifies such criticism.

 

Disliking someone who is borderline insane is hardly what you'd call transphobia. I guess people are transphobes for disliking Hitler as well.

Edited April 4, 2015 by mindswayer

[DavidHansen]

 

 

 

I'm not going to be nice to a man who preeches Kill All Men.

Could have saved us a lot of trouble just saying that you were a transphobe instead of dressing it up in that whole freedom of speech cloak.

 

 

Please avoid calling people "transphobe" for reacting negatively to "kill all men". 

 

 

 

 

Especially because I've seen the Kill All men dude's picture. If you just showed that to someone there's no way they'd think he was female.

 

Not even in a "can't pass" way, there's no sign he's even trying to look female.

 

Are you going to keep pretending or are you going to admit that this is what it is?

 

 

That's not hatred of all transsexuals. It's hatred of a single transsexual, which is very warranted.

 

Hating a gay person does not make you homophobic, unless you hate all gay people.

[Arouet]

 

 

 

 

I'm not going to be nice to a man who preeches Kill All Men.

Could have saved us a lot of trouble just saying that you were a transphobe instead of dressing it up in that whole freedom of speech cloak.

 

 

Please avoid calling people "transphobe" for reacting negatively to "kill all men". 

 

 

 

 

Especially because I've seen the Kill All men dude's picture. If you just showed that to someone there's no way they'd think he was female.

 

Not even in a "can't pass" way, there's no sign he's even trying to look female.

 

Are you going to keep pretending or are you going to admit that this is what it is?

 

 

That's not hatred of all transsexuals. It's hatred of a single transsexual, which is very warranted.

 

Hating a gay person does not make you homophobic, unless you hate all gay people.

 

So it's his (and your) right to decide if someone is really transgender, as opposed to "passing".

 

Again, do you want to keep pretending or admit what it is?

 

Also, hatred is ok. Uh-huh.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Arouet

[Luj1]

 

 

I'm not going to be nice to a man who preeches Kill All Men.

Could have saved us a lot of trouble just saying that you were a transphobe instead of dressing it up in that whole freedom of speech cloak.

 

 

Throughout every single thread I never saw you condemn the repeated and serious use of kill all men. At best you merely deflected from it.

 

 

 

Yup.. its ok for them to use it but no us.... that's democracy for you.... 1 twitter transvestite vs 77.000 backers

Edited April 4, 2015 by Luj1

[DavidHansen]

 

Now, the person who originally tweeted that complaint consistently comes across as a sociopathic monster in her tweets. So maybe Obsidian should not have treated a tweet from a person like that seriously. On the other hand, Obsidian couldn't necessarily know that this person was like that. 

 

Link?

 

 

fixed: http://i.imgur.com/2k5C7dV.jpg

 

it might seem to be silly jokes, but it's all like that, and not jokingly

Edited April 4, 2015 by DavidHansen

[Ichthyic]

How many people have seen The Hangover 2.  In that movie, Andy from The Office has sex with a trans.  And is upset about it after the fact.  The HORROR!

 

Is that 'transphobic'?  I say no, but If so, should the film be censored because of that?  I say **** NO!

 

The limerick that got censored here is more nebulous than that and yet it was cut because a small minority were offended.  Sad.  The offended have a choice.  Don't play.  Don't watch. Don't listen.  Spend your money elsewhere.  I do not have problem with the criticism, I have a problem with Obsidian's knee jerk reaction to it.

...until it's your turn to get offended.  then you will be DEMANDING your right to be offended.

 

seriously, what you are asking here is nothing less than for people with complaints about something to simply not participate.

 

what if that complaint was about slavery?  or miscegenation?  I suppose you'd tell them all simply to avoid living in places that have slavery....

 

I got a little poem for you to read.  you need to learn it, and understand it, or you will one day be a victim of it.

 

 

 

 

 

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

...If you don't know who wrote it, or why, it's something you should spend some time finding out.

 

 

Edited April 4, 2015 by Ichthyic

[deuxhero]

 

 

 

I think the act of removing it is likely to bring more attention through the Streisand Effect.

 

As for the note itself: I know a few trans people and they would have probably snickered at that because it wasn't mean spirited as presented. More than likely the people making the most stink aren't the victims of the perceived offense.

 

Especially because I've seen the Kill All men dude's picture. If you just showed that to someone there's no way they'd think he was female.

 

Not even in a "can't pass" way, there's no sign he's even trying to look female.

 

And there it is: the response to any criticism of transphobia immediately justifies such criticism.

 

Disliking someone who is borderline insane is hardly what you'd call transphobia. I guess people are transphobes for disliking Hitler as well.

 

 

No borderline. Unless Eric has been faking it, he claims to have a serious mental illness listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders

[Tigranes]

As someone already said: well that went to **** pretty quickly. 

 

Considering that the two positions in this issue are both about the kind of rights people have and how those rights should be respected, wouldn't it be ironic if this thread hosted plenty of personal attacks flung in all directions? As Cant said: walk the dog. Make a sandwich. Don't get apoplectic. We hate to close threads and want to let you guys discuss whatever you want, but we do need to make sure it doesn't become one of those things where everyone's outstayed each other's welcome and all that's left is frustration and bad memories.

 

As usual, we will try to stay hands off. But if you find your post missing, that's a sign that you're getting far too heated up and maybe too focused on calling other people various unsavoury things.

[Luridis]

 

I think the act of removing it is likely to bring more attention through the Streisand Effect.

 

As for the note itself: I know a few trans people and they would have probably snickered at that because it wasn't mean spirited as presented. More than likely the people making the most stink aren't the victims of the perceived offense.

 

Especially because I've seen the Kill All men dude's picture. If you just showed that to someone there's no way they'd think he was female.

 

Not even in a "can't pass" way, there's no sign he's even trying to look female.

 

 

What does this have to do with what I posted? That person's identity and orientation are both irrelevant and absolutely not a guarantee that any person of any identity or any orientation would react the same way.

[DavidHansen]

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not going to be nice to a man who preeches Kill All Men.

Could have saved us a lot of trouble just saying that you were a transphobe instead of dressing it up in that whole freedom of speech cloak.

 

 

Please avoid calling people "transphobe" for reacting negatively to "kill all men". 

 

 

 

 

Especially because I've seen the Kill All men dude's picture. If you just showed that to someone there's no way they'd think he was female.

 

Not even in a "can't pass" way, there's no sign he's even trying to look female.

 

Are you going to keep pretending or are you going to admit that this is what it is?

 

 

That's not hatred of all transsexuals. It's hatred of a single transsexual, which is very warranted.

 

Hating a gay person does not make you homophobic, unless you hate all gay people.

 

So it's his (and your) right to decide if someone is really transgender, as opposed to "passing".

 

Again, do you want to keep pretending or admit what it is?

 

Also, hatred]/i] is ok.

 

 

It's everyone's right to have an opinion on it. Like you can have an opinion on whether someone is grumpy or stupid or paranoid or happy or competent or a good father or Spanish. 

 

Sure, those insults might hurt. But using group-related insults ("he's compensating for a tiny d***") doesn't mean that someone hates all of that group.

[Ichthyic]

 

 

 

I'm not going to be nice to a man who preeches Kill All Men.

Could have saved us a lot of trouble just saying that you were a transphobe instead of dressing it up in that whole freedom of speech cloak.

 

 

Throughout every single thread I never saw you condemn the repeated and serious use of kill all men. At best you merely deflected from it.

 

 

 

Yup.. its ok for them to use it but no us.... that's democracy for you.... 1 twitter transvestite vs 77.000 backers

 

what on earth makes you think it was only ONE person who complained?

 

because you think you saw someone say so on a reddit or 4chan thread somewhere?

 

lol.

 

 

[Arouet]

So, Erika is:

 

1. Actually a gay man, because you said so

2. Actually named Eric, even though she herself said that was not her deadname, because you said so

3. Mentally ill because a) she taunted gamergaters slurring her with the KIllAllMen thing, and because b)she's really a man and of course that makes her crazy

 

Nope, this is pure bigotry. Close the damn thread.

[Luridis]

So I'm seeing an argument with one side being apologetic for the idea of murdering half the species for the sex they're born with, and on the other side, a few people being transphobic. Well, I lean less toward the genocide apologist, but I'd also rather not be transphobic, and address people by th sex they identify with. However, it seems like nauance is often lost in these kinds of discussions.

 

This is the fundamental problem with internet arguments. For whatever reason, it seems to breed black and white thinking which is not logical anywhere outside a microprocessor.

[Volourn]

"black and white"

\

TRIGGERED!

 

Why you diss asians, arabs, etc. ?

Edited April 4, 2015 by Volourn

[deuxhero]

So, Erika is:

 

1. Actually a gay man, because you said so

2. Actually named Eric, even though she herself said that was not her deadname, because you said so

3. Mentally ill because a) she taunted gamergaters slurring her with the KIllAllMen thing, and because b)she's really a man and of course that makes her crazy

 

Nope, this is pure bigotry. Close the damn thread.

 

He's mentally ill because Gender Dysphoria is in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

[Arouet]

 

So, Erika is:

 

1. Actually a gay man, because you said so

2. Actually named Eric, even though she herself said that was not her deadname, because you said so

3. Mentally ill because a) she taunted gamergaters slurring her with the KIllAllMen thing, and because b)she's really a man and of course that makes her crazy

 

Nope, this is pure bigotry. Close the damn thread.

 

He's mentally ill because Gender Dysphoria is in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

 

Milo? Is that you?

[deuxhero]

Are you instead arguing that gender dysphoria is not real?

[Luj1]

 

 

 

 

I'm not going to be nice to a man who preeches Kill All Men.

Could have saved us a lot of trouble just saying that you were a transphobe instead of dressing it up in that whole freedom of speech cloak.

 

 

Throughout every single thread I never saw you condemn the repeated and serious use of kill all men. At best you merely deflected from it.

 

 

 

Yup.. its ok for them to use it but no us.... that's democracy for you.... 1 twitter transvestite vs 77.000 backers

 

what on earth makes you think it was only ONE person who complained?

 

because you think you saw someone say so on a reddit or 4chan thread somewhere?

 

lol.

 

 

 

 

1 twitter transvestite and his cohort . Still less than a dozen deluded people (who didn't even back the game, and some aren't even RPG fans )

[mindswayer]

 

How many people have seen The Hangover 2.  In that movie, Andy from The Office has sex with a trans.  And is upset about it after the fact.  The HORROR!

 

Is that 'transphobic'?  I say no, but If so, should the film be censored because of that?  I say **** NO!

 

The limerick that got censored here is more nebulous than that and yet it was cut because a small minority were offended.  Sad.  The offended have a choice.  Don't play.  Don't watch. Don't listen.  Spend your money elsewhere.  I do not have problem with the criticism, I have a problem with Obsidian's knee jerk reaction to it.

...until it's your turn to get offended.  then you will be DEMANDING your right to be offended.

 

seriously, what you are asking here is nothing less than for people with complaints about something to simply not participate.

 

what if that complaint was about slavery?  or miscegenation?  I suppose you'd tell them all simply to avoid living in places that have slavery....

 

I got a little poem for you to read.  you need to learn it, and understand it, or you will one day be a victim of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

...If you don't know who wrote it, or why, it's something you should spend some time finding out.

 

 

 

They have every right to be offended, they just don't have the right to demand censorship upon a joke. If they want to be offended, they should also explain why they are offended, which did not happen, at all (and I mean that eric dude and the other people on twitter). I'd say that "I'm offended because these situations usually end up with the tranny person murdered" is a pretty ****ing giant leap of imagination, especially when in the god damn poem the guy killed himself and no harm was done to the other person.

[Luj1]

 

2. Actually named Eric, even though she herself said that was not her deadname, because you said so

 

 

What the hell is a "deadname" . Some new DJ??