rogue and deflection

[jones092201]

at what attribute value does deflection become reasonable on a rogue (or any other average deflection class)?

 

i was thinking about building a rogue with a high deflection. i want him to handle to mid line, so he'd open with pistol/blunderbuss, then pick up anything that gets passed the tank. Aside from that, he'd flank and engage single opponents. He'd be light to medium armor, (more light, my first guy used Aloth's leather bc i like the look)

 

that's the concept, I know it's not as powerful as the glass cannon approach, but i would still like to try it. 

 

without suggesting a shield, does anyone have any suggestions on this build?

 

thanks in advance. 

 

 

 

[mazeltov]

Dual-wielded hatchets gives twice the Deflection, 10 total, heh. Clearly the devs intended high deflection Rogues to be viable since the class has abilities like Riposte which require actual misses on your character to activate. You have to have a truly spectacular Deflection score in this game to consistently generate misses.

 

Hmm. High perception and resolve, and the high perception could lend itself to fast, short interrupts with hatchets. Ring of Deflection +10 is available fairly early. Cautious Attack modal at lvl 4 for +10 Deflection, maybe take Two-Weapon Style to cancel Cautious Attack's 20% attack speed penalty. Blinds synergize well. Still not sure if your Deflection could get high enough to work in the mid game and beyond.

[mrmonocle]

your high deflection rogue will be a gimp in ragard of the dps output. High per and res means low something else and the dps stats in this game are might dex and int.

Edited March 31, 2015 by mrmonocle

[Gromnir]

your high deflection rogue will be a gimp in ragard of the dps output. High per and res means low something else and the dps stats in this game are might dex and int.

most dps is the result o' talents, abilities, and weapon choices.  Gromnir has played a few different rogue builds in the beta and now in poe and we will once again state what should eventual become obvious: the attribute scores are not as important as most folks believe.  our favorite rogue build has 18 perception and 16 resolve, and it ain't a defensive rogue whatsoever.  our rogue does serious damage regardless o' whether we make him 2h or dual wield.   am not feeling gimped at all.

 

however, because o' the reckless assault bug, we cannot speak to the potential o' a defensive rogue.  so far we ain't tried to go full defense and currently our two poe (non beta) rogue builds got -16 deflection penalty from reckless assault due to a bug, so am a bit more vulnerable than we should be. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps we do have a cautious attack dual-wielding hatchet rogue with the +10 ring o' deflection that at level 12 has 102 deflection, riposte and the talent that converts 50% o' grazes to misses.  is not as if such a character could tank, but it were not exactly a glass cannon either... still did very respectable damage.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Gromnir

[jones092201]

 

your high deflection rogue will be a gimp in ragard of the dps output. High per and res means low something else and the dps stats in this game are might dex and int.

most dps is the result o' talents, abilities, and weapon choices.  Gromnir has played a few different rogue builds in the beta and now in poe and we will once again state what should eventual become obvious: the attribute scores are not as important as most folks believe.  our favorite rogue build has 18 perception and 16 resolve, and it ain't a defensive rogue whatsoever.  our rogue does serious damage regardless o' whether we make him 2h or dual wield.   am not feeling gimped at all.

 

however, because o' the reckless assault bug, we cannot speak to the potential o' a defensive rogue.  so far we ain't tried to go full defense and currently our two poe (non beta) rogue builds got -16 deflection penalty from reckless assault due to a bug, so am a bit more vulnerable than we should be. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps we do have a cautious attack dual-wielding hatchet rogue with the +10 ring o' deflection that at level 12 has 102 deflection, riposte and the talent that converts 50% o' grazes to misses.  is not as if such a character could tank, but it were not exactly a glass cannon either... still did very respectable damage.

 

granted you don't place primacy on attribute spread, what spread do you use with the 18 perception, 16 resolve rogue.?

i would assume your using the plus damage talents, reckless assault and bloody slaughter. 

anything else key to that build?

Edited March 31, 2015 by jones092201

[Gromnir]

 

 

your high deflection rogue will be a gimp in ragard of the dps output. High per and res means low something else and the dps stats in this game are might dex and int.

most dps is the result o' talents, abilities, and weapon choices.  Gromnir has played a few different rogue builds in the beta and now in poe and we will once again state what should eventual become obvious: the attribute scores are not as important as most folks believe.  our favorite rogue build has 18 perception and 16 resolve, and it ain't a defensive rogue whatsoever.  our rogue does serious damage regardless o' whether we make him 2h or dual wield.   am not feeling gimped at all.

 

however, because o' the reckless assault bug, we cannot speak to the potential o' a defensive rogue.  so far we ain't tried to go full defense and currently our two poe (non beta) rogue builds got -16 deflection penalty from reckless assault due to a bug, so am a bit more vulnerable than we should be. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps we do have a cautious attack dual-wielding hatchet rogue with the +10 ring o' deflection that at level 12 has 102 deflection, riposte and the talent that converts 50% o' grazes to misses.  is not as if such a character could tank, but it were not exactly a glass cannon either... still did very respectable damage.

 

granted you don't place primacy on attribute spread, what spread do you use with the 18 perception, 16 resolve rogue.?

i would assume your using the plus damage talents, reckless assault and bloody slaughter. 

anything else key to that build?

 

no bloody slaughter.  however, reckless assault and deflecting are essential, and it sux that reckless is broken at the moment.  we take any talents that boosts crit chance... can't go wrong with dirty and vicious fighting.  deep wounds gives extra raw damage.  for the dual build we choose two-weapon fighting asap and at 6 or 8 add weapon focus: peasant to dual spears... because dual wielding spears is stoopid & effective.   extra accuracy from spears is nice. for the 2h variety we get the 2h weapon damage boost and then eventual add weapon focus: adventurer.   estoc and poleaxe covers piercing, slash and crush weapons. deathblows is a capper at upper levels, but am not seeing shadowing beyond and backstab as all that essential-- take or don't. am a big fan o' coordinated positioning, so it is mandatory for us, but that ain't a guaranteed pick. bear endurance is worth considering to make up for our 10s in might and con.

 

build does freaky damage and gets dialogue options unavailable to more mechanical superior builds.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited March 31, 2015 by Gromnir

[jones092201@gmail.com]

Thanks. The dialogue options were big for me, as well. I much prefer the subtle touch to slamming a guy against the wall when I want his lunch money.

[Gromnir]

two observations 'bout our "gimped" damage-dealing rogues.

 

1) dual wielding becomes more effective as the game progresses.

 

dr will mock your one-hand weapons (fast or large) early in the game, but thanks to enchanting and other factors, dual gets better.  we like spears and maces best, but am not thinking those choices is the only route.

 

2) a cipher will make you look good.

 

many cipher powhaz appear tailor made for aiding a rogue's sneak attack.  sure, druids, wizards and even clerics got similar debuffs that make foes susceptible to your rogue's most important feature (i.e. sneak attack) but the cipher can spam such stuff very cheap.  we add a cipher asap and then get grieving mother to replace our custom cipher.  now if only we could figure out a way to recruit grieving mother a bit earlier...

 

HA! Good Fun!

[rheingold]

Yup a cipher and a rogue go together like a horse and carriage.

[rheingold]

And as Gromnir has pointed out stats don't make as big a difference as everyone thinks. It's very possible to put points into resolve and Perception. The only stat that is important for a dual wield is dexterity and even then only if you are naked.

[NoxNoctum]

Gromnir I gotta ask -- are you royalty?

[Fimconte]

Mmm, as a rogue you don't really need INT.
Something like 10-8-19-20-3-18 is possible, adjust as desired. 

[tnc]

Stats matter on for example on a barbarian you can start with 21 might activate upgraded frenzy and make it 27 might which is 51 percentage based damage bonus without any other stat bonuses. It'll help you bypass dr even with normal hits which is rly helpful. On a rogue it might be less important.

[Fimconte]

Stats matter on for example on a barbarian you can start with 21 might activate upgraded frenzy and make it 27 might which is 51 percentage based damage bonus without any other stat bonuses. It'll help you bypass dr even with normal hits which is rly helpful. On a rogue it might be less important.

I'd actually go for Dex on any melee character, Attack Speed > Extra Damage imho, due to how easy it is to get more damage, but extra attack speed is much rarer. 

[tnc]

 

Stats matter on for example on a barbarian you can start with 21 might activate upgraded frenzy and make it 27 might which is 51 percentage based damage bonus without any other stat bonuses. It'll help you bypass dr even with normal hits which is rly helpful. On a rogue it might be less important.

 

I'd actually go for Dex on any melee character, Attack Speed > Extra Damage imho, due to how easy it is to get more damage, but extra attack speed is much rarer.

Yeah that is why i raise both to at least 17. Barbarian frenzy also gives large attack speed bonus which is huge. You both attack fast and do big damage per hit which bypasses dr on tough enemies. I also take swift strike on my monk with max dex. Attack speed ftw.

[Fimconte]

Yeah that is why i raise both to at least 17. Barbarian frenzy also gives large attack speed bonus which is huge. You both attack fast and do big damage per hit which bypasses dr on tough enemies. I also take swift strike on my monk with max dex. Attack speed ftw.

 

I think dumping con a bit is also ok, since you have such a huge HP pool anyway.

Ie. I'd rather have 5 deflect than 15% more hp as Barb.  

 

Also, Orlin best racial for melee. 

[tnc]

 

Yeah that is why i raise both to at least 17. Barbarian frenzy also gives large attack speed bonus which is huge. You both attack fast and do big damage per hit which bypasses dr on tough enemies. I also take swift strike on my monk with max dex. Attack speed ftw.

 

I think dumping con a bit is also ok, since you have such a huge HP pool anyway.

Ie. I'd rather have 5 deflect than 15% more hp as Barb.  

Also, Orlin best racial for melee.

I agree on cons you can make it 16 or 14 or even 12. You get cons bonus on frenzy aswell.