mrmonocle Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 1. Ok, let's start with the image of the erect pillar responsible for "birth" (whether the child will be hollowborn or not). 2. Oedipus complex. Thaos is clearly a father figure and the mother figure is split among Woedica (mistress), Webb (matron), the tortured girl whose name I don't remember (a violated female). Your character is clearly the son who is in conflict with the father over the mother in all her presentations. 3. Voyerism. You don't take part in the fight over mother directly, but assume the role of a peeking voyer. At the end of the story Thaos confirms it by saying that your quarrel is long concluded. 4. Engagement provokes the fear of turning your back on the enemy. I see the dreams so marvelously sad The creeks of land so solid and encrusted Where wave and tide against the shore is busted While chanting by the moonlit twilight's bed trees (of Twin Elms) could use more of Magran's touch © Durance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUsernamelessOne Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Interesting. So what is the game trying to say, do you think? Is the subtext that Thaos, as the father figure, has weak seed resulting in lifeless offspring, and must be usurped in a contest of potency? Raedric seems to begin a recurring theme of fathers seeking to compensate for their weakness through brutality and violence (look at the Duc being tempted to blame animancers for Waidwen's Legacy). The mothers, on the other hand, seem to have no active role at all in what's going on--they are silenced through murder (Raedric's wife) or societal pressure (Lady Webb). Is the game hostile towards women? I notice this is another story where the strong, clever male villain (Thaos) is using a female character (Woedicca) for his own devices while she thinks she is the scheming power behind the throne (or trying to get on the throne, anyway). Durance constantly spews misogynistic vitriol. The goddesses are all evil scheming shrews except for the most feminine and passive one, Hylea, who needs the player's help to get rid of a dragon in her own temple. Does Pillars covet the power of the... well, you know (the actual word is apparently censored)? It's right there in the title, "Pillars." Grieving Mother, who you would think would be the real hero of the story (being a magical midwife in a land afflicted by a magical problem involving childbirth) is passive, effeminate, and ineffectual; the protagonist, who is just some schmuck with a sword (or a really big gun, even better) who spends most of their time asking people questions must solve the problem. The terminology of plugging a hole with some sort of key comes up once or twice (I'm thinking of Rymrgand's quest in particular). Notice that even though Thaos is basically a child-murderer on a grand scale, the people of the world are apparently helpless before him--only the protagonist, the prodigal son, can challenge him, and that only to usurp his place as father figure. Does it matter that you can play as a female character? How much does that change the subtext? Is it an empowering story if read as a woman with the support of male and female friends who defeats an oppressive patriarchal figure in order to liberate both herself and her country? Let's discuss these issues. Edited March 30, 2015 by TheUsernamelessOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrokenMask Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Umm, what do you mean by that I notice this is another story where the strong, clever male villain (Thaos) is using a female character (Woedicca) for his own devices while she thinks she is the scheming power behind the throne (or trying to get on the throne, anyway) This thread is too pretentious for my tastes, but that made me raise my eyebrows and have to reply:What the heck you are talking about? Thaos sees Woedica as ally to help keep world ignorant and Woedica sees Thaos as her servant to get more power <_< Thaos isn't using Woedica, where you got that idea from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmonocle Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Thaos isn't using Woedica true. Woedica is mistress here. I see the dreams so marvelously sad The creeks of land so solid and encrusted Where wave and tide against the shore is busted While chanting by the moonlit twilight's bed trees (of Twin Elms) could use more of Magran's touch © Durance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUsernamelessOne Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Umm, what do you mean by that I notice this is another story where the strong, clever male villain (Thaos) is using a female character (Woedicca) for his own devices while she thinks she is the scheming power behind the throne (or trying to get on the throne, anyway) This thread is too pretentious for my tastes, but that made me raise my eyebrows and have to reply: What the heck you are talking about? Thaos sees Woedica as ally to help keep world ignorant and Woedica sees Thaos as her servant to get more power <_< Thaos isn't using Woedica, where you got that idea from? Woedica needs Thaos. Thaos doesn't need her. He doesn't actually seem to need anyone, really, since he can teleport anywhere he wants whenever he wants to do whatever he wants. He renders the entire Act taking place in Defiance Bay pointless by just possessing an animancer to murder the Duc, after you went through a bunch of quests to prevent animancers from being framed. Always good to know player actions matter. Anyway, I, at least, am being mostly facetious in this thread. But then again, what is art?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrokenMask Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Umm, Thaos does need Woedica since empowering Woedica leads to goal Thaos wants and Thaos isn't "god"(well technically gods aren't real gods, but they are still much more powerful beings than mortals). Plus if I understood right, at least some of Thaos' abilities come from being Woedica's "favored". Woedica on other hand doesn't need Thaos specifically, she just needs someone to do her bidding, after you defeat Thaos you are given offer of becoming her favored instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUsernamelessOne Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Umm, Thaos does need Woedica since empowering Woedica leads to goal Thaos wants and Thaos isn't "god"(well technically gods aren't real gods, but they are still much more powerful beings than mortals). Plus if I understood right, at least some of Thaos' abilities come from being Woedica's "favored". Woedica on other hand doesn't need Thaos specifically, she just needs someone to do her bidding, after you defeat Thaos you are given offer of becoming her favored instead. Wait, I can still salvage this! Let me check my notes. Ahh, the fact that Woedica, the mighty goddess, needs anyone to do her bidding clearly points to the game's true message and lends credence to my theories. Disaster averted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peanuckle Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I think you're coming at this from the wrong direction. Thaos is using Woedica, but he's using her so that she can use him. Thaos' culture built her (and all the gods) to worship them and lead them. Thaos seeks to empower Woedica because he believes in her goals and methods. Rather than a man using a woman, this is a man raising a woman up so that she can take him by the hand and lead him. Thaos' activities throughout his long life are all oriented towards protecting the secret of the gods, protecting Woedica. If anything, this game is hostile towards men. The female gods could be considered crafty witches, but the male gods are just pathetic. There's a slave-god who (slavishly) follows Woedica (the god of rightful rule), Abydon the tool-god who had to build himself a new body (to harp on the Freudian theme, he no longer has the necessary parts to be a man, and is reduced to a tool for women like Magran to use). Galawain is an animal. Rymrgand is an impersonal (and perhaps impotent, given his laxity) force of destruction, Berath is both genders at once and Eothas was actually murdered on the orders of women. In contrast, the female gods govern invention and self-betterment (Magran), Love and growth (Hylea), and Woedica herself is basically the goddess of civilization and intelligent thinking. Clearly we can see that the women are in positions of power, while the men are in positions of servitude. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmonocle Posted April 2, 2015 Author Share Posted April 2, 2015 I think you're coming at this from the wrong direction. Thaos is using Woedica, but he's using her so that she can use him. Thaos' culture built her (and all the gods) to worship them and lead them. Thaos seeks to empower Woedica because he believes in her goals and methods. Rather than a man using a woman, this is a man raising a woman up so that she can take him by the hand and lead him. Thaos' activities throughout his long life are all oriented towards protecting the secret of the gods, protecting Woedica. If anything, this game is hostile towards men. The female gods could be considered crafty witches, but the male gods are just pathetic. There's a slave-god who (slavishly) follows Woedica (the god of rightful rule), Abydon the tool-god who had to build himself a new body (to harp on the Freudian theme, he no longer has the necessary parts to be a man, and is reduced to a tool for women like Magran to use). Galawain is an animal. Rymrgand is an impersonal (and perhaps impotent, given his laxity) force of destruction, Berath is both genders at once and Eothas was actually murdered on the orders of women. In contrast, the female gods govern invention and self-betterment (Magran), Love and growth (Hylea), and Woedica herself is basically the goddess of civilization and intelligent thinking. Clearly we can see that the women are in positions of power, while the men are in positions of servitude. this outlook doesn't conradict mine. I see the dreams so marvelously sad The creeks of land so solid and encrusted Where wave and tide against the shore is busted While chanting by the moonlit twilight's bed trees (of Twin Elms) could use more of Magran's touch © Durance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peanuckle Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 this outlook doesn't conradict mine. True. I was more replying to others who shifted the discussion to a more traditional "man vs woman" rather than "protagonist vs Thaos." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longknife Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Also a sword is erect too. "The Courier was the worst of all of them. The worst by far. When he died the first time, he must have met the devil, and then killed him." Is your mom hot? It may explain why guys were following her ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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