A Map Editor after or around release

[Legion5]

This is very important, and should not be an overlooked feature, it is also the main reason why KOTOR 1 didn

[Dabrinko]

Lucasarts say NO to all who try totamper with their licensed products.

 

That's why Kotor 1 never had a map editor. (Not that it stopped the modders anyway)

[nightcleaver]

I don't think it's overlooked, and if a dev were to come here there answer would be simple: not enough time or resources. Personally, I'd prefer they spent their time improving the core gameplay instead of making a toolset so people could make a whole lot of amateurish mods. Lots more content, but not very good quality, in my opinion..

[Jora]

Those examples really don't prove anything. Arcanum has an editor but only Chrisbeddoes does anything with it. Developing editors takes time that could be better used in making the single player experience better.

[Dabrinko]

and for the Arcanum fans, even the developers did almost 7 different mods after release.

[Shadowkiller]

Bioware didn't make a level editor because LucasArts didn't want mods to be made for KotOR. I doubt that will change with KotOR II.

[Raven]

Lucasarts say NO to all who try totamper with their licensed products.

 

That's why Kotor 1 never had a map editor. (Not that it stopped the modders anyway)

where have you been?

ever played:

Dark forces, dark forces 2, jedi outcast, jedi academy?

[Eagle]

Lucasarts aren't too anti-mod anymore, look at galactic conquest battlefield mod. They are making their own true, but they dont have any problems with it, they are probably even taking some ideas from it.

[Gorth]

I asked a similar question in Developers Corner, got a satisfying answer to why some crpgs come without tools/editors

[T7nowhere]

I asked a similar question in Developers Corner, got a satisfying answer to why some crpgs come without tools/editors 

Know the link. I would like to read a satisfying answer.

 

Anyway all KotOR Modders really need is a model import/exporter, oh and dialog editor. But even thats not really a problem.

 

Oh ya I got a question for the Devs. Will the discussion of modding be banned here as well.

[Cantousent]

I'll concur with the idea that I'd much rather have the designers concentrate on a good game than a crappy game with a built in editor.

 

It's not like KotOR had bad sales, now is it. To turn it around, perhaps Arcanum would have sold much better if the developers had concentrated more on the packaged material and less on the editor.

 

In fact, Dungeon Siege has an editor. It's not like I see a ton of Dungeon Siege mods. (Siegelets -- who thought of that?) Still, Dungeon Siege did well enough for an expansion and a sequel. ...And it didn't have the bandwagon approach from the critics like NWN did.

 

To be honest, I'm not sure that most folks who've played Dungeon Siege have downloaded the patch, let alone a mod.

 

See, here's where I started liking Bioware a lot again. Instead of making boring tilesets and cookie cutter graphics so every Tom, ****, and Harry had the option of making a crappy mod that wasn't worth playing, they decided to make the packaged campaign for KotOR worth playing in the first place. I'll decidedly against toolsets because I think they end up hamstringing the design team. I'll reserve judgement, but I'm glad that KotOR didn't have a toolset and I pray, fervently, that KotOR 2 keeps with the same tradition.

[SKYeXile]

i cant see much point of map making or moding on a single player game. and definatly one like kotor.

[Raven]

I asked a similar question in Developers Corner, got a satisfying answer to why some crpgs come without tools/editors

[T7nowhere]

it wasnt really banned from the bioware forum, just a certain fraud *cough*look at my sig*cough* was promoted to mod for a while and put that up there. dunno why though, a lot of the stuff that certain person said was wrong.

Ok then why have almost every thread about modding been deleted or locked at the bioware forum. What I was told numerous times from a couple Bioware Devs is that LA told Bioware Not to discuss Modding KotOR and thats why there was a ban.

 

I don't really need a toolset, but It would be nice to be able to discuss with the Devs How certain parts of the game work.

[Cantousent]

it wasnt really banned from the bioware forum, just a certain fraud *cough*look at my sig*cough* was promoted to mod for a while and put that up there. dunno why though, a lot of the stuff that certain person said was wrong.

Ok then why have almost every thread about modding been deleted or locked at the bioware forum. What I was told numerous times from a couple Bioware Devs is that LA told Bioware Not to discuss Modding KotOR and thats why there was a ban.

 

I don't really need a toolset, but It would be nice to be able to discuss with the Devs How certain parts of the game work.

See, this is perfect. My reasoning is simple. If it's relatively hard to mod, then the only folks who will mod will be committed to creating a mod. That doesn't mean their mods will be great, but it does help weed out the folks who want to slap some ridiculous crap together and call it art. Not only that, but it also means the developers don't have to dumb down the engine or the graphics to make the game accessible to wanna be modders.

 

I don't even feel guilty for being so brutally honest about it. I don't want to see another NWN OC from Bioware. It's the only game they've made where I thought, "wow, these guys really could have done much better than this."

 

KotOR is really the game that brought me back into the fold. ...And to think I almost didn't buy it. I've heard good things about SoU and HotU but I refuse to buy another copy of NWN to find out if it's true.

[T7nowhere]

See, this is perfect. My reasoning is simple. If it's relatively hard to mod, then the only folks who will mod will be committed to creating a mod. That doesn't mean their mods will be great, but it does help weed out the folks who want to slap some ridiculous crap together and call it art. Not only that, but it also means the developers don't have to dumb down the engine or the graphics to make the game accessible to wanna be modders.

True. I do agree, but still even if they don't want to make the game mod friendly It would be nice to get a little info from the devs.

 

"wanna be modders" ?

 

Aren't all modders wanna be Developers? For me It's a way to give a game I really liked a little more life. I totally agree the game shouldn't be dumbed down just to assist modding.

[Cantousent]

No, I think you're a true modder if you go in and modify the game. I'm thinking of team BG. Now, I'll be honest and say that some of the modding community for NWN was quite ingenious. The thing is, you sound like you're going to pursue modding the game even if there isn't a toolset. For that reason, I actually wish you luck. I'm more railing against toolsets than anything else. ...And I recognize that my biases might be getting the better of me. After all, who says that the toolset must be a downfall? *shrug* I dunno.

 

It's not like I don't want other folks to have fun. I just don't want the whole toolset idea to work its way into every game as if working within the confines of a toolset didn't have an impact on the rest of the design.

[Llyranor]

NWN was ideal for me. I know nothing about programming (though I had to learn a bit for NWN), but the toolset was fairly simple to use (though I'm still learning new things about it). It gives me the opportunity to make what *I* really want. Sure, it's somewhat limited, but it's still the most powerful toolset out there (for losers like me, at least). I guess the OC suffered because of the focus on everything else, but I wouldn't have it any other way. I surely don't remember NWN for its campaign, but for its toolset/DM client/multiplayer capabilities, etc.

 

Hey, I don't have any plans to go in the gaming industry, and I sure don't want to have to learn any more programming than I need to. I'm certainly not a "real" modder, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't enjoy making a game. This is where NWN satisfies all my worldly urges.

 

That being said, I do agree with Eldar that not every game should require a toolset. I never touched Arcanum's, nor Morrowind's. Never cared to. I indeed would rather the devs focus on making a good game rather than making it highly moddable (unless that was the focus, like NWN, but you don't need too many of those types of games).

[Legion5]

I don't think it's overlooked, and if a dev were to come here there answer would be simple: not enough time or resources. Personally, I'd prefer they spent their time improving the core gameplay instead of making a toolset so people could make a whole lot of amateurish mods. Lots more content, but not very good quality, in my opinion..

Developing a fully bug free integrated map editor? Sure that would take time and resources but I mean just releasing the tools that the devs are ALREADY using to make the game, in all seriousness they kind of have to have something to make them game themselves, like file decompressors and simple map editors, the game just deosnt pop up from nowhere, releasing that would do a whole world of good with community made content-

[Sorwen]

I think Lucas didn't want KoToR modable as it is a RPG where JK 2 and Academy are not. Same reasons for no multiplayer they don't want anything that might hurt Galaxies. A game as great as KoToR made like NWN? I have no doubt those sales would fall. The JK mod was illegal when they first designed it, but when it became a potential money maker and they showed they could take care when using Star Wars intellectual properties it ended up becoming it's own franchise. KoToR will never be given the same chance.

[Cantousent]

At any rate, Legion, I wish you luck in creating mods. If they're good, it can only provide a chance for folks to continue to enjoy the game. I just don't know how the mods would work for those of us who will play the game on the xbox rather than PC.

 

As for your mods, Llyranor, I sometimes let my emotions get the best of me. I'm not against your toolset. I know a lot of folks who enjoy NWN most of all because of the toolset. In fact, one of my friends spends a ton of time on the Middle Earth persistent world.

 

I still don't want a toolset to become a "necessary" component of every game, but I might want to delve into creating a mod myself some day. As it is, though, I will admit that I'm glad that KotOR didn't have a toolset. It was a great game and it's just too hard to tell what kind of impact it would have had to package it with a toolset. KotOR, for me, is the best use of the Star Wars license that I've ever seen. For those of us who remember the whole space opera beginings, it's great to see something that follows the spirit of the original movies as well as KotOR does.

[Darque]

I just don't know how the mods would work for those of us who will play the game on the xbox rather than PC.

 

The xbox is evil... it should just die already. <_<

[Sorwen]

I just don't know how the mods would work for those of us who will play the game on the xbox rather than PC.

 

The xbox is evil... it should just die already. <_<

It's not totally evil. There is DOA3 and DOA Beach Volley Ball. I do wish Bioware was doing Jade Empire for the PC as well as X-Box.

[Darque]

Oh, yeah... like that holds any intrest for me

 

I guess Jade empire looks interesting on the other hand... at least when I looked at it a year ago.

[Drakron]

That sould be OE next project, port DOA volleyball to PC.