Kaylon Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) Has someone checked using fraps if the modifiers stack additively for the reloading part of ranged weapons? I'm asking because when you look into Cheatengine they are multiplied (1.2x1.5x1.2 for a ranger with gunner, swift aim and chanter buff). OK, I tested myself using fraps/virtualdub how the reload time was calculated and everything is multiplicative like I suspected. Here are the numbers for the arquebus (used the reload time without the delay you have between actions - which is about 5frames): - 10dex, no other buff - 188frames (base) - 10dex, swift aim (1.5 x reload time) - 126frames (188/1.5=125.3) - 10dex, swift aim (1.5 x reload time), gunner (1.2 x reload time) - 105frames (188/1.5/1.2=104.4) - 20dex, swift aim (1.5 x reload time), gunner (1.2 x reload time) - 81frames (188/1.5/1.2/1.3=80.3) - 20dex, swift aim (1.5 x reload time), gunner (1.2 x reload time), chant (1.2 x reload time) - 66frames (188/1.5/1.2/1.3/1.2=66.95) The results are pretty spot on, with the differences within 1frame. I may have time to work on this again tomorrow. Could you please give me the full formula including the base value, so I can update my calculations? Attack_Time = ( ( Attack_Frames(Weapon_Loop) + Recovery_Frames(Weapon_Loop) * ( 1 - Attack_Speed_Mod ) + Reload_Frames(Weapon_Loop) / Reload_Speed_Mod + 10 ) / (1 + Dexterity*0.03 ) )/30; where Reload_Speed_Mod = Bonus1 x Bonus2 x ... ie the product of all reload bonuses you have (like they are listed in the game) - gunner (1.2), swift aim (1.5), chant (1.2) Edited April 17, 2015 by Kaylon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Mysh Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Thank you. Luckily it's very close to what we had. Will revise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Kaylon Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 (edited) Thank you. Luckily it's very close to what we had. Will revise. Here's a formula to calculate the average damage mod based on your accuracy: =IF(Acc+WAcc>=100;1+DmgMod+CD+WCD; IF(Acc+WAcc>49;1+DmgMod+(CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>14;0.75+DmgMod+(0.5+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100 IF(Acc+WAcc>0;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-50;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-85;(0,5+DmgMod)*(.85+(Acc+WAcc)/100);0)))))) where Acc = player accuracy - monster deflection WAcc = base accuracy of the weapon (-5, -10 etc. for firearms) DmgMod = damage bonus you have CD = critical damage mod (0.5+any bonuses you have) WCD = base weapon critical damage mod (-.3 for firearms) Maybe you could use it on your sheet to calculate the average damage based on a distribution around a targeted accuracy value, like for the damage reduction. PS. In your sheet I think you can't go over 20DR, maybe your tables should go until 28DR (for people to be able to see what are the best weapons against the adra dragon). Edited April 18, 2015 by Kaylon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Luridis Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 (edited) Thank you. Luckily it's very close to what we had. Will revise. Here's a formula to calculate the average damage mod based on your accuracy: =IF(Acc+WAcc>=100;1+DmgMod+CD+WCD; IF(Acc+WAcc>49;1+DmgMod+(CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>14;0.75+DmgMod+(0.5+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100 IF(Acc+WAcc>0;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-50;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-85;(0,5+DmgMod)*(.85+(Acc+WAcc)/100);0)))))) where Acc = player accuracy - monster deflection WAcc = base accuracy of the weapon (-5, -10 etc. for firearms) DmgMod = damage bonus you have CD = critical damage mod (0.5+any bonuses you have) WCD = base weapon critical damage mod (-.3 for firearms) Maybe you could use it on your sheet to calculate the average damage based on a distribution around a targeted accuracy value, like for the damage reduction. PS. In your sheet I think you can't go over 20DR, maybe your tables should go until 28DR (for people to be able to see what are the best weapons against the adra dragon). This... is why I like the game less every time I play it. The mechanics are convoluted, over imagined and they've thrown in everything they can think of, along with the kitchen sink. There's no room for subtlety or simple mastery, and you spend too much time looking at numbers. That isn't difficulty, it's technicality and I don't much care for it. A simple, home-grown version of d20, ala 2nd Edition would have made the experience far more enjoyable to me. (Yes, they could do it. Game mechanics aren't subject to copyright, only the names and descriptions.) At this point I am convinced that Torment is going to be the better game since it runs on a system of which the formulas do not look like electrical engineering. Edited April 18, 2015 by Luridis 2 Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. - Julius Caesar #define TRUE (!FALSE) I ran across an article where the above statement was found in a release tarball. LOL! Who does something like this? Predictably, this oddity was found when the article's author tried to build said tarball and the compiler promptly went into cardiac arrest. If you're not a developer, imagine telling someone the literal meaning of up is "not down". Such nonsense makes computers, and developers... angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Matt516 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Thank you. Luckily it's very close to what we had. Will revise. Here's a formula to calculate the average damage mod based on your accuracy: =IF(Acc+WAcc>=100;1+DmgMod+CD+WCD; IF(Acc+WAcc>49;1+DmgMod+(CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>14;0.75+DmgMod+(0.5+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100 IF(Acc+WAcc>0;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-50;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-85;(0,5+DmgMod)*(.85+(Acc+WAcc)/100);0)))))) where Acc = player accuracy - monster deflection WAcc = base accuracy of the weapon (-5, -10 etc. for firearms) DmgMod = damage bonus you have CD = critical damage mod (0.5+any bonuses you have) WCD = base weapon critical damage mod (-.3 for firearms) Maybe you could use it on your sheet to calculate the average damage based on a distribution around a targeted accuracy value, like for the damage reduction. PS. In your sheet I think you can't go over 20DR, maybe your tables should go until 28DR (for people to be able to see what are the best weapons against the adra dragon). This... is why I like the game less every time I play it. The mechanics are convoluted, over imagined and they've thrown in everything they can think of, along with the kitchen sink. There's no room for subtlety or simple mastery, and you spend too much time looking at numbers. That isn't difficulty, it's technicality and I don't much care for it. A simple, home-grown version of d20, ala 2nd Edition would have made the experience far more enjoyable to me. (Yes, they could do it. Game mechanics aren't subject to copyright, only the names and descriptions.) At this point I am convinced that Torment is going to be the better game since it runs on a system of which the formulas do not look like electrical engineering. It's really... not that complicated. You attack, you take your Accuracy minus their Defense, then you roll a d100 and add that to it. If it's between 1-15, miss and no damage, 16-50, graze and -50% base damage, 51-100, hit, 100+, crit and +50% base damage. That's it. Boiling that down to formulas can make the formulas look daunting, sure... but it's really not that complicated, and nothing like the convoluted mess that was THAC0. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Luridis Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Thank you. Luckily it's very close to what we had. Will revise. Here's a formula to calculate the average damage mod based on your accuracy: =IF(Acc+WAcc>=100;1+DmgMod+CD+WCD; IF(Acc+WAcc>49;1+DmgMod+(CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>14;0.75+DmgMod+(0.5+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100 IF(Acc+WAcc>0;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-50;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-85;(0,5+DmgMod)*(.85+(Acc+WAcc)/100);0)))))) where Acc = player accuracy - monster deflection WAcc = base accuracy of the weapon (-5, -10 etc. for firearms) DmgMod = damage bonus you have CD = critical damage mod (0.5+any bonuses you have) WCD = base weapon critical damage mod (-.3 for firearms) Maybe you could use it on your sheet to calculate the average damage based on a distribution around a targeted accuracy value, like for the damage reduction. PS. In your sheet I think you can't go over 20DR, maybe your tables should go until 28DR (for people to be able to see what are the best weapons against the adra dragon). This... is why I like the game less every time I play it. The mechanics are convoluted, over imagined and they've thrown in everything they can think of, along with the kitchen sink. There's no room for subtlety or simple mastery, and you spend too much time looking at numbers. That isn't difficulty, it's technicality and I don't much care for it. A simple, home-grown version of d20, ala 2nd Edition would have made the experience far more enjoyable to me. (Yes, they could do it. Game mechanics aren't subject to copyright, only the names and descriptions.) At this point I am convinced that Torment is going to be the better game since it runs on a system of which the formulas do not look like electrical engineering. It's really... not that complicated. You attack, you take your Accuracy minus their Defense, then you roll a d100 and add that to it. If it's between 1-15, miss and no damage, 16-50, graze and -50% base damage, 51-100, hit, 100+, crit and +50% base damage. That's it. Boiling that down to formulas can make the formulas look daunting, sure... but it's really not that complicated, and nothing like the convoluted mess that was THAC0. You're attempting to oversimplify my statement to reduce my argument to a single point which you can argue. I did not write "mechanic", I wrote "mechanics". I merely highlighted a single one, it's the combination that is tiring. THAC0 was nothing more than a floating hit difficulty at 5% gradients. Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt. - Julius Caesar #define TRUE (!FALSE) I ran across an article where the above statement was found in a release tarball. LOL! Who does something like this? Predictably, this oddity was found when the article's author tried to build said tarball and the compiler promptly went into cardiac arrest. If you're not a developer, imagine telling someone the literal meaning of up is "not down". Such nonsense makes computers, and developers... angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Mysh Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Thank you. Luckily it's very close to what we had. Will revise. Here's a formula to calculate the average damage mod based on your accuracy: =IF(Acc+WAcc>=100;1+DmgMod+CD+WCD; IF(Acc+WAcc>49;1+DmgMod+(CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>14;0.75+DmgMod+(0.5+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100 IF(Acc+WAcc>0;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-50;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-85;(0,5+DmgMod)*(.85+(Acc+WAcc)/100);0)))))) where Acc = player accuracy - monster deflection WAcc = base accuracy of the weapon (-5, -10 etc. for firearms) DmgMod = damage bonus you have CD = critical damage mod (0.5+any bonuses you have) WCD = base weapon critical damage mod (-.3 for firearms) Maybe you could use it on your sheet to calculate the average damage based on a distribution around a targeted accuracy value, like for the damage reduction. PS. In your sheet I think you can't go over 20DR, maybe your tables should go until 28DR (for people to be able to see what are the best weapons against the adra dragon). Actually, I am not the guy behind the excel sheet. I am running a MATLAB simulation. DR can have any number etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Mysh Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 My script actually works differently than your formulas. See below. Random_base_dmg = Min_Damage(Weapon_Loop) + Delta_Base_Dmg*Damage_Roll; Modified_base_dmg = Random_base_dmg * (1 + Might*0.03 + Weapon_Damage_Quality_Mod + Savage_Attack*0.2 + Two_handed_Style*0.15 + Sworn_Enemy*0.2); Modified_fire_dmg = Modified_base_dmg * Fire_Weapon_Mod*0.25 ; Effective_DR = max(Effective_Foe_DR_Melee(Foe_Loop) - Weapon_Base_DR_Bypass(Weapon_Loop) - Weapon_DR_Penetration_Mod - Vulnerable_Attack*5 , 0); DR_Modified_base_dmg = max(Modified_base_dmg - Effective_DR,0.2*Modified_base_dmg); DR_Modified_fire_dmg = max(Modified_fire_dmg - Foe_Burn(Foe_Loop),0.2*Modified_fire_dmg); Avg_DR_Modified_base_dmg = sum(DR_Modified_base_dmg)/Dice_Faces; Avg_DR_Modified_fire_dmg = sum(DR_Modified_fire_dmg)/Dice_Faces; Hit_to_Chance_Code %This is another piece of code. Graze_Damage = Grazes * 0.5 * ( Avg_DR_Modified_base_dmg + Avg_DR_Modified_fire_dmg )/ 100; Hit_Damage = Hits * 1 * ( Avg_DR_Modified_base_dmg + Avg_DR_Modified_fire_dmg ) / 100; Crit_Damage = Crits * ( 1.5 + Weapon_Base_Crit(Weapon_Loop) + Critical_Multipler_Mod ) * ( Avg_DR_Modified_base_dmg + Avg_DR_Modified_fire_dmg ) / 100; Total_Damage=Graze_Damage+Hit_Damage+Crit_Damage; Attack_Time_Code DPS(Weapon_Loop,Attribute_loop,Foe_Loop)=Total_Damage/Attack_Time; Please, if you could give me some feedback. I am still looking for someone to review my scripts in MATLAB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Matt516 Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 My script actually works differently than your formulas. See below. Random_base_dmg = Min_Damage(Weapon_Loop) + Delta_Base_Dmg*Damage_Roll; Modified_base_dmg = Random_base_dmg * (1 + Might*0.03 + Weapon_Damage_Quality_Mod + Savage_Attack*0.2 + Two_handed_Style*0.15 + Sworn_Enemy*0.2); Modified_fire_dmg = Modified_base_dmg * Fire_Weapon_Mod*0.25 ; Effective_DR = max(Effective_Foe_DR_Melee(Foe_Loop) - Weapon_Base_DR_Bypass(Weapon_Loop) - Weapon_DR_Penetration_Mod - Vulnerable_Attack*5 , 0); DR_Modified_base_dmg = max(Modified_base_dmg - Effective_DR,0.2*Modified_base_dmg); DR_Modified_fire_dmg = max(Modified_fire_dmg - Foe_Burn(Foe_Loop),0.2*Modified_fire_dmg); Avg_DR_Modified_base_dmg = sum(DR_Modified_base_dmg)/Dice_Faces; Avg_DR_Modified_fire_dmg = sum(DR_Modified_fire_dmg)/Dice_Faces; Hit_to_Chance_Code %This is another piece of code. Graze_Damage = Grazes * 0.5 * ( Avg_DR_Modified_base_dmg + Avg_DR_Modified_fire_dmg )/ 100; Hit_Damage = Hits * 1 * ( Avg_DR_Modified_base_dmg + Avg_DR_Modified_fire_dmg ) / 100; Crit_Damage = Crits * ( 1.5 + Weapon_Base_Crit(Weapon_Loop) + Critical_Multipler_Mod ) * ( Avg_DR_Modified_base_dmg + Avg_DR_Modified_fire_dmg ) / 100; Total_Damage=Graze_Damage+Hit_Damage+Crit_Damage; Attack_Time_Code DPS(Weapon_Loop,Attribute_loop,Foe_Loop)=Total_Damage/Attack_Time; Please, if you could give me some feedback. I am still looking for someone to review my scripts in MATLAB. For one, you've got Grazes and Crits coded as multiplicative. They're not AFAIK. Just another +0.5 or -0.5 modifier to the attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Mysh Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 (edited) Are you sure that grazes and crits are not multiplicative? If they are not do they also affect elemental damage? Edited April 19, 2015 by Mysh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Mysh Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Thank you. Luckily it's very close to what we had. Will revise. Here's a formula to calculate the average damage mod based on your accuracy: =IF(Acc+WAcc>=100;1+DmgMod+CD+WCD; IF(Acc+WAcc>49;1+DmgMod+(CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>14;0.75+DmgMod+(0.5+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100 IF(Acc+WAcc>0;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-50;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-85;(0,5+DmgMod)*(.85+(Acc+WAcc)/100);0)))))) where Acc = player accuracy - monster deflection WAcc = base accuracy of the weapon (-5, -10 etc. for firearms) DmgMod = damage bonus you have CD = critical damage mod (0.5+any bonuses you have) WCD = base weapon critical damage mod (-.3 for firearms) Maybe you could use it on your sheet to calculate the average damage based on a distribution around a targeted accuracy value, like for the damage reduction. PS. In your sheet I think you can't go over 20DR, maybe your tables should go until 28DR (for people to be able to see what are the best weapons against the adra dragon). This works quite differently, what is the source of this code? Where is DR substracted in the end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Kaylon Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Thank you. Luckily it's very close to what we had. Will revise. Here's a formula to calculate the average damage mod based on your accuracy: =IF(Acc+WAcc>=100;1+DmgMod+CD+WCD; IF(Acc+WAcc>49;1+DmgMod+(CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>14;0.75+DmgMod+(0.5+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100 IF(Acc+WAcc>0;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-50;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-85;(0,5+DmgMod)*(.85+(Acc+WAcc)/100);0)))))) where Acc = player accuracy - monster deflection WAcc = base accuracy of the weapon (-5, -10 etc. for firearms) DmgMod = damage bonus you have CD = critical damage mod (0.5+any bonuses you have) WCD = base weapon critical damage mod (-.3 for firearms) Maybe you could use it on your sheet to calculate the average damage based on a distribution around a targeted accuracy value, like for the damage reduction. PS. In your sheet I think you can't go over 20DR, maybe your tables should go until 28DR (for people to be able to see what are the best weapons against the adra dragon). This works quite differently, what is the source of this code? Where is DR substracted in the end? This isn't the final damage, it's just the average damage modifier based on the accuracy. If you want to find the final damage you should multiply the result by the average base damage of the weapon and substract the DR. All that should be divided by the speed to find the dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Mysh Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Thank you. Luckily it's very close to what we had. Will revise. Here's a formula to calculate the average damage mod based on your accuracy: =IF(Acc+WAcc>=100;1+DmgMod+CD+WCD; IF(Acc+WAcc>49;1+DmgMod+(CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>14;0.75+DmgMod+(0.5+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100 IF(Acc+WAcc>0;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-50;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-85;(0,5+DmgMod)*(.85+(Acc+WAcc)/100);0)))))) where Acc = player accuracy - monster deflection WAcc = base accuracy of the weapon (-5, -10 etc. for firearms) DmgMod = damage bonus you have CD = critical damage mod (0.5+any bonuses you have) WCD = base weapon critical damage mod (-.3 for firearms) Maybe you could use it on your sheet to calculate the average damage based on a distribution around a targeted accuracy value, like for the damage reduction. PS. In your sheet I think you can't go over 20DR, maybe your tables should go until 28DR (for people to be able to see what are the best weapons against the adra dragon). This works quite differently, what is the source of this code? Where is DR substracted in the end? This isn't the final damage, it's just the average damage modifier based on the accuracy. If you want to find the final damage you should multiply the result by the average base damage of the weapon and substract the DR. All that should be divided by the speed to find the dps. So where does might go? Does it modify the base weapon damage, and multiple the whole thing? Is it possible we can hold an AC to discuss a couple of details on skype? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

VaultDuke Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 As far as i read any damage increase is additive, irregardless of the source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Kaylon Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Thank you. Luckily it's very close to what we had. Will revise. Here's a formula to calculate the average damage mod based on your accuracy: =IF(Acc+WAcc>=100;1+DmgMod+CD+WCD; IF(Acc+WAcc>49;1+DmgMod+(CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>14;0.75+DmgMod+(0.5+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100 IF(Acc+WAcc>0;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-50;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-85;(0,5+DmgMod)*(.85+(Acc+WAcc)/100);0)))))) where Acc = player accuracy - monster deflection WAcc = base accuracy of the weapon (-5, -10 etc. for firearms) DmgMod = damage bonus you have CD = critical damage mod (0.5+any bonuses you have) WCD = base weapon critical damage mod (-.3 for firearms) Maybe you could use it on your sheet to calculate the average damage based on a distribution around a targeted accuracy value, like for the damage reduction. PS. In your sheet I think you can't go over 20DR, maybe your tables should go until 28DR (for people to be able to see what are the best weapons against the adra dragon). This works quite differently, what is the source of this code? Where is DR substracted in the end? This isn't the final damage, it's just the average damage modifier based on the accuracy. If you want to find the final damage you should multiply the result by the average base damage of the weapon and substract the DR. All that should be divided by the speed to find the dps. So where does might go? Does it modify the base weapon damage, and multiple the whole thing? Is it possible we can hold an AC to discuss a couple of details on skype? Everything is added together (weapon bonus, strength bonus, talent bonuses, critical/graze bonuses...) and multiplied with the base damage of the weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Mysh Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 (edited) Thank you. Luckily it's very close to what we had. Will revise. Here's a formula to calculate the average damage mod based on your accuracy: =IF(Acc+WAcc>=100;1+DmgMod+CD+WCD; IF(Acc+WAcc>49;1+DmgMod+(CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>14;0.75+DmgMod+(0.5+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100 IF(Acc+WAcc>0;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-50;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-85;(0,5+DmgMod)*(.85+(Acc+WAcc)/100);0)))))) where Acc = player accuracy - monster deflection WAcc = base accuracy of the weapon (-5, -10 etc. for firearms) DmgMod = damage bonus you have CD = critical damage mod (0.5+any bonuses you have) WCD = base weapon critical damage mod (-.3 for firearms) Maybe you could use it on your sheet to calculate the average damage based on a distribution around a targeted accuracy value, like for the damage reduction. PS. In your sheet I think you can't go over 20DR, maybe your tables should go until 28DR (for people to be able to see what are the best weapons against the adra dragon). This works quite differently, what is the source of this code? Where is DR substracted in the end? This isn't the final damage, it's just the average damage modifier based on the accuracy. If you want to find the final damage you should multiply the result by the average base damage of the weapon and substract the DR. All that should be divided by the speed to find the dps. So where does might go? Does it modify the base weapon damage, and multiple the whole thing? Is it possible we can hold an AC to discuss a couple of details on skype? Everything is added together (weapon bonus, strength bonus, talent bonuses, critical/graze bonuses...) and multiplied with the base damage of the weapon. That's what I had with the exception of graze and crits. However your formula does not include might bonuses, and does not include graze to hit and hit to crit accuracy bonuses. So needs modifications. So would graze/cits substruct/add a base value from both base and elemental damage, or only once? Could you please source your information? Edited April 19, 2015 by Mysh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Mysh Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 (edited) OK updated the formulas, I am not so sure how to handle elemental damage though. Since, it is considered seperately. The situation though has not changed much, late game favours dexterity builds. We still need to verify the origin of these formulas. Random_base_dmg = Min_Damage(Weapon_Loop) + Delta_Base_Dmg*Damage_Roll; Modified_base_dmg_graze = Random_base_dmg * (0.5 + Might*0.03 + Weapon_Damage_Quality_Mod + Savage_Attack*0.2 + Two_handed_Style*0.15 + Sworn_Enemy*0.2); Modified_base_dmg_hit = Random_base_dmg * (1 + Might*0.03 + Weapon_Damage_Quality_Mod + Savage_Attack*0.2 + Two_handed_Style*0.15 + Sworn_Enemy*0.2); Modified_base_dmg_crit = Random_base_dmg * (1.5 + Weapon_Base_Crit(Weapon_Loop) + Critical_Multipler_Mod + Might*0.03 + Weapon_Damage_Quality_Mod + Savage_Attack*0.2 + Two_handed_Style*0.15 + Sworn_Enemy*0.2); Modified_fire_dmg = Random_base_dmg * (Fire_Weapon_Mod*0.25 + Scion_of_Flame*0.2); Effective_DR = max(Effective_Foe_DR_Melee(Foe_Loop) - Weapon_Base_DR_Bypass(Weapon_Loop) - Weapon_DR_Penetration_Mod - Vulnerable_Attack*5 , 0); DR_Modified_base_dmg_graze = max(Modified_base_dmg_graze - Effective_DR,0.2*Modified_base_dmg_graze); DR_Modified_base_dmg_hit = max(Modified_base_dmg_hit - Effective_DR,0.2*Modified_base_dmg_hit); DR_Modified_base_dmg_crit = max(Modified_base_dmg_crit - Effective_DR,0.2*Modified_base_dmg_crit); DR_Modified_fire_dmg = max(Modified_fire_dmg - Foe_Burn(Foe_Loop),0.2*Modified_fire_dmg); Avg_DR_Modified_base_dmg_graze = sum(DR_Modified_base_dmg_graze)/Dice_Faces; Avg_DR_Modified_base_dmg_hit = sum(DR_Modified_base_dmg_hit)/Dice_Faces; Avg_DR_Modified_base_dmg_crit = sum(DR_Modified_base_dmg_crit)/Dice_Faces; Avg_DR_Modified_fire_dmg = sum(DR_Modified_fire_dmg)/Dice_Faces; Hit_to_Chance_Code Graze_Damage = Grazes * ( Avg_DR_Modified_base_dmg_graze + Avg_DR_Modified_fire_dmg )/ 100; Hit_Damage = Hits * ( Avg_DR_Modified_base_dmg_hit + Avg_DR_Modified_fire_dmg ) / 100; Crit_Damage = Crits * ( Avg_DR_Modified_base_dmg_crit + Avg_DR_Modified_fire_dmg ) / 100; Total_Damage=Graze_Damage+Hit_Damage+Crit_Damage; Attack_Time_Code DPS(Weapon_Loop,Attribute_loop,Foe_Loop)=Total_Damage/Attack_Time; Weighted_DPS(Weapon_Loop,Attribute_loop,Foe_Loop)=Foe_Size(Foe_Loop)*Total_Damage/Attack_Time/Total_Foe_Size; Edited April 19, 2015 by Mysh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Looms Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Im looking at the doc and...a ranger with 27 dex (20 starting + 2 Copperlane resting bonus + pie + ring) in light armor and swift aim will attack every 2 sec with Lenas Er ? Every 2 sec he will have a chance to stun 2 enemies and apply DR debuff (that stacks) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Kaylon Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Thank you. Luckily it's very close to what we had. Will revise. Here's a formula to calculate the average damage mod based on your accuracy: =IF(Acc+WAcc>=100;1+DmgMod+CD+WCD; IF(Acc+WAcc>49;1+DmgMod+(CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>14;0.75+DmgMod+(0.5+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100 IF(Acc+WAcc>0;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-50;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-85;(0,5+DmgMod)*(.85+(Acc+WAcc)/100);0)))))) where Acc = player accuracy - monster deflection WAcc = base accuracy of the weapon (-5, -10 etc. for firearms) DmgMod = damage bonus you have CD = critical damage mod (0.5+any bonuses you have) WCD = base weapon critical damage mod (-.3 for firearms) Maybe you could use it on your sheet to calculate the average damage based on a distribution around a targeted accuracy value, like for the damage reduction. PS. In your sheet I think you can't go over 20DR, maybe your tables should go until 28DR (for people to be able to see what are the best weapons against the adra dragon). This works quite differently, what is the source of this code? Where is DR substracted in the end? This isn't the final damage, it's just the average damage modifier based on the accuracy. If you want to find the final damage you should multiply the result by the average base damage of the weapon and substract the DR. All that should be divided by the speed to find the dps. So where does might go? Does it modify the base weapon damage, and multiple the whole thing? Is it possible we can hold an AC to discuss a couple of details on skype? Everything is added together (weapon bonus, strength bonus, talent bonuses, critical/graze bonuses...) and multiplied with the base damage of the weapon. That's what I had with the exception of graze and crits. However your formula does not include might bonuses, and does not include graze to hit and hit to crit accuracy bonuses. So needs modifications. So would graze/cits substruct/add a base value from both base and elemental damage, or only once? Could you please source your information? The DmgMod from my formula includes every mod affecting your damage (if you have 20mig, superb weapon and 20% bonus from some talent then the DmgMod is 0.3+.45+.2=.95) and of course includes grazes, crits (see CD - which is the critical damage bonus). Like I said, it has just to be multiplied by the base weapon dmg and then apply the DR to find the final average dmg. The lashing dmg does a 25% of your total dmg against 25% of the DR of its type. But to simplify you just multiply your final weapon dmg (after DR) by 1.25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Kaylon Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Im looking at the doc and...a ranger with 27 dex (20 starting + 2 Copperlane resting bonus + pie + ring) in light armor and swift aim will attack every 2 sec with Lenas Er ? Every 2 sec he will have a chance to stun 2 enemies and apply DR debuff (that stacks) ? The stun/debuff length is affected by your INT, thus you don't really need to attack that fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Mysh Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 (edited) Thank you. Luckily it's very close to what we had. Will revise. Here's a formula to calculate the average damage mod based on your accuracy: =IF(Acc+WAcc>=100;1+DmgMod+CD+WCD; IF(Acc+WAcc>49;1+DmgMod+(CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>14;0.75+DmgMod+(0.5+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100 IF(Acc+WAcc>0;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod+CD+WCD)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-50;0.675+0.85*DmgMod+(1+DmgMod)*(Acc+WAcc)/100; IF(Acc+WAcc>-85;(0,5+DmgMod)*(.85+(Acc+WAcc)/100);0)))))) where Acc = player accuracy - monster deflection WAcc = base accuracy of the weapon (-5, -10 etc. for firearms) DmgMod = damage bonus you have CD = critical damage mod (0.5+any bonuses you have) WCD = base weapon critical damage mod (-.3 for firearms) Maybe you could use it on your sheet to calculate the average damage based on a distribution around a targeted accuracy value, like for the damage reduction. PS. In your sheet I think you can't go over 20DR, maybe your tables should go until 28DR (for people to be able to see what are the best weapons against the adra dragon). This works quite differently, what is the source of this code? Where is DR substracted in the end? This isn't the final damage, it's just the average damage modifier based on the accuracy. If you want to find the final damage you should multiply the result by the average base damage of the weapon and substract the DR. All that should be divided by the speed to find the dps. So where does might go? Does it modify the base weapon damage, and multiple the whole thing? Is it possible we can hold an AC to discuss a couple of details on skype? Everything is added together (weapon bonus, strength bonus, talent bonuses, critical/graze bonuses...) and multiplied with the base damage of the weapon. That's what I had with the exception of graze and crits. However your formula does not include might bonuses, and does not include graze to hit and hit to crit accuracy bonuses. So needs modifications. So would graze/cits substruct/add a base value from both base and elemental damage, or only once? Could you please source your information? The DmgMod from my formula includes every mod affecting your damage (if you have 20mig, superb weapon and 20% bonus from some talent then the DmgMod is 0.3+.45+.2=.95) and of course includes grazes, crits (see CD - which is the critical damage bonus). Like I said, it has just to be multiplied by the base weapon dmg and then apply the DR to find the final average dmg. The lashing dmg does a 25% of your total dmg against 25% of the DR of its type. But to simplify you just multiply your final weapon dmg (after DR) by 1.25. I was talking about hearth Orlan bonus and one-handed bonuses. These are not included. Also distributions in your excel are Gaussian, die distribution should be rectangular. Did not understand MIG was covered by dmgmod. Anyway, do you have time to review my scripts? Edited April 19, 2015 by Mysh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

The Josip Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Does Swift Strikes monk ability reduce only recovery or also attack speed? I don't mean in theory, I mean in practice. If someone can test it I'd appreciate it. The reason being, someone said he tested dual wielding talent and it appears to decrease only recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Matt516 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 If I recall correctly, it only reduced recovery - but by the amount needed to increase total attack speed by the listed amount. So it offloads all of the speed increase to recovery, basically. Someone will have to get back to you with testing data if that's what you want. But that's how I remember it working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

The Josip Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I'd really like test data on this because monks already take dual wielding which seems to reduce recovery only, and then swift strikes which might reduce recovery only.. you see where this is going right? A lot of redundancy can occur here and in the end it might be that the skill is really doing either nothing or it's some marginal improvement that you can't notice unless you count few fps's. Also, what's with fists and other fast weapons, did I read correctly fists have longer recovery? Why would that be and what are the actual numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

Matt516 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Well again - if it reduces recovery by the proper amount to increase total attack speed by the amount stated then there's no issue unless you're somehow reducing recovery to 0 and there's then no more improvement possible. But I'm not sure if that's even possible due to how attack speed modifiers work. Haven't heard anything about fists having longer recovery than other fast weapons. Don't know why that would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

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