Combat Mechanics? Attack Speed, Recovery

[Baki]

I have searched these forums but could not find an in depth explaination about these stats.

 

 

Attack Sequence and Recovery:

-As far as i know each attack (the duration is determined by attack speed) is followed by a Recovery Time before you can attack again. The Recovery Time is displayed by a bar in combat. Correct so far? 

-What determines the Recovery Time? My guess is Weapon Speed and/or Style (1h/Dual Wield/2h) might be a factor here. Numbers would be great. Does each weapon have have its own Recovery Time or is it the same for fast/avg/slow weapons?

 

Attack Speed: 

-What does fast/avg/slow actually mean? numbers please. 

-Do all fast weapons have the same attack speed or does fast mean something between 0.5 and 0.7 seconds per attack?

 

Dex: Does it only improve the attack time or also the recovery time?

 

 

[xxTheGoDxx]

This is what I got from basically watching Quill18's combat mechanics video (its worth it). Just posting as is, not sure if I made an error:

 

Attack time:
Fast Weapon = 0.66 sec.
Normal Weapon = 1 sec.
Slow Weapon = ??

One Handed:
Attack Time then
2* Recovery = 2 * 1 sec.
W/o anything in your off-hand= +8 (?) accuracy

Dual Wielding:
Attack Time then
1* Recovery = * 1 sec.
Attack Time
1* Recovery = * 1 sec.

Two Handed:
Attack Time then
2* Recovery = 2 * 1 sec.

 

I would also like to know what weapon slow changes?

[Baki]

ya, i have seen that video, too but i think he might be wrong about the recovery  times. certainly doesnt look like 2xrecovery time. Maybe you just get a bonus to recovery time while dual wielding?

 

can't know for sure. either you test it via video and count the frames or you get this info from the devs.

 

Where did he get his info?

Edited March 27, 2015 by Baki

[Sensuki]

This is what I got from basically watching Quill18's combat mechanics video (its worth it). Just posting as is, not sure if I made an error:

 

This information is incorrect.

 

 

I cover his errors in the beginning of this video.

[Baki]

Somehow i cannot see the video. tried chrome and IE. could you give me a link?

 

edit: think i found it on youtube. Basic Gameplay and Combat?

 

So what you are saying is the basic recovery time of 1 second is modified by weapon type? And further Modifiers like Dex Or Armor will only affect the base recovery time of 1 second?

 

Could you please give a in depth explaination or point us to the source?

Edited March 27, 2015 by Baki

[Sensuki]

Fast weapons have an animation time of 20 frames

Everything else is 30 frames

 

There is a global recovery time multiplier of 1.2

 

default attack speed for 1H fast weapon is 20 frame animation, 36 frame recovery (50% slower due to 1H style or using a shield)

 

default attack speed for 1H average weapon or 2H weapon is 30 frame animation, 54 frame recovery (50% slower due to 1H style, 2H style or using a shield)

 

default attack speed for 2W fast weapons is 20 frame animation + 24 frame recovery + 20 frame animation + 24 frame recovery

default attack speed for 2W average weapons is 30 frame animation + 36 frame recovery + 30 frame animation + 36 frame recovery

 

Dexterity affects both animation speed and recovery time

Everything else only affects recovery time

 

If you record a 30 FPS video of yourself making an attack unarmored and do a frame by frame - you'll be able to reproduce these exact times.

 

I can't quote the source because it's from the paywalled Something Awful forums (Josh Sawyer, lead designer).

Edited March 27, 2015 by Sensuki

[Baki]

Thanks a lot!

 

did i really get this right? attack cycles of 2 handed weapons (Slow) take exactly as long as average 1 handed weapons?

 

also let me try to rephrase what you said above about recovery speed.

Recovery Time (Dual Wield) = Base Attack Speed * 1.2 

Recovery Time (1H or 2H) = Base Attack Speed * 1.2 * 1.5

 

Lets assume i have a 30% Speed Bonus from Dex and a 50% Speed malus from Armor and a 20% Dual Wield Speed Bonus from a Talent.

will it be: 

Recovery Time (Dual Wield) = Base Attack Speed * 1.2 * 0.7 * 1.5 * 0.8 

Recovery Time (1H or 2H) = Base Attack Speed * 1.2 * 1.5 * 0.7 * 1.5

?

 

Or

Recovery Time (Dual Wield) = Base Attack Speed * (1+0.2-0.3-0.5-0.2)

?

 

or something else? 

Edited March 27, 2015 by Baki

[Sensuki]

Recovery time is additive and they all use the value modified by the global recovery mult.

Recovery time is also slowed while moving by 50% (which is dumb, our mod removes it)

Edited March 27, 2015 by Sensuki

[Baki]

Thanks again!

 

so dual wielding daggers with 30% speed from Dex, 20% speed from Talent and 50% Armor Malus would have a recovery speed of 24*(1-0.3-0.2+0.5)=24

 

I will never understand why devs would use additive modifiers. in terms of speed that means an exponential benefit from speed modifiers. The first 20% Modifier does exactly what it should: 20% more speed. the next 20% modifier already gives 25% more speed (for a total of 45%) and so on.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Baki

[Baki]

What about ranged weapons?

[Cyseal]

Does spell combo exist?
For example, if you use spell combinations, damage is increased.

[Baki]

i dont think so.

[Baki]

About the ranged weapons again:

 

my guess is they have the same recovery and attack speed as melee but also have reload times?

 

anybody got those reload timers? Sensuki :D ?

[xxTheGoDxx]

Fast weapons have an animation time of 20 frames

Everything else is 30 frames

So, what about slow and very slow weapons? Maybe I am just missing something.

 

BTW, your videos are great and I love the IE Mod.

[ErlKing]

I noticed that you can change weapon right after arbalest attack without triggering recovery time, not sure if it was intended. With Quick Switch talent switch recovery time is 0.5 sec that is considerably lower than arbalest recovery time, now I wonder if melee 2 great swords switcher is possible  (obvious game bug if it is).

Edited March 29, 2015 by ErlKing

[Krockus]

I noticed that you can change weapon right after arbalest attack without triggering recovery time, not sure if it was intended. With Quick Switch talent switch recovery time is 0.5 sec that is considerably lower than arbalest recovery time, now I wonder if melee 2 great swords switcher is possible  (obvious game bug if it is).

Do not know about melee weapons, but I believe ranged weapons do remember their loaded/unloaded states. Chanter companion reloads his weapon after combat ends, and it should finish reloading before next fight if he intends to shoot and not to reload at the start of next battle.

So, I think, it is possible to take perks for wielding additional weapon sets, and one can carry four rifles or crossbows at a time, then discharge them at the start of battle one after another making good DPS at the beginning of battle, but then he would need to recharge a weapon instead of switching it to another.

[gnoster]

Instead on making another combat mechanics thread, I'll add my question to this.

 

Could someone with better insight than me please explain the wound mechanic on the monk class?

 

I get that you need to take damage, and as far as I understand it (based on what I read about the class in the character creator) goes something like this (numbers as an example):

1) You get hit

2) The hits damages for 10 points of damage

3) The 10 points of damage are reduced by 3 due to armor

4) The remaining 7 points of damage are put into a Wound pool

5) If the Wound pool reaches max you get a Wound counter

6) If the wound pool only needed 5 points of damage to fill, the remaining 2 hit you for 2 endurance damage

 

My question is, am I understanding this right, because it doesn't sound right and to me it seems endurance take all the damage and it's pure chance if I get a wound counter.

[Warden]

@Sensuki:

if i go by the logic you posted, you can actually negate the recovery time completely provided you have enough +attack speed stuff right ?

then your attack speed = the animation speed which can be modified by DEX only ?

and if the same logic can be applied to ranged weapons ...

6 chanters with ranged attack speed buff, equiped with rifles and maxed DEX ... there would be only heavily lowered animation speed + super fast reload speed ?

 

are there any recovery/animation/reload speed caps ?

do those ranged attack speed buffs stack ?

[Baki]

@gnoster: no clue about monks, sry

@Warden:I doubt that the ranged attack speed chants will stack. havent tested it though.

 

currently i am frapsing a 2h (slow) melee attack. the whole process takes exactly 2,8 seconds (same as Sensuki said it would be) but the yellow bar which i believe to be the Recovery Time has a duration of ~1,56 Seconds. According to Sensuki this should be 1,8 seconds long.

 

Anybody got an explaination for this?

 

Edit: It seems the recovery bar is empty for about 0,25 Seconds before the attack animation begins again.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Baki

[Baki]

tried video capturing to get the ranged attack speeds. these are the results:

 

beware, could be inaccurate.

 

Edited March 31, 2015 by Baki

[Baki]

@Sensuki:

if i go by the logic you posted, you can actually negate the recovery time completely provided you have enough +attack speed stuff right ?

then your attack speed = the animation speed which can be modified by DEX only ?

and if the same logic can be applied to ranged weapons ...

6 chanters with ranged attack speed buff, equiped with rifles and maxed DEX ... there would be only heavily lowered animation speed + super fast reload speed ?

 

are there any recovery/animation/reload speed caps ?

do those ranged attack speed buffs stack ?

 

 

i think i was wrong about the attack speed calc. 

 

my guess is that it works like this: 

 

Let's we have modifiers of 50%(1.5) and 100% (x2) and base frames of 30. 

 

30/(1+1+0,5)=12 

 

Will try to verfify that with a high dex chanter later.

 

btw, armor malus only affects recovery time, not reload time.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Baki

[Baki]

Crossbow Speed without modifiers is

Attack: 53

Recovery: 76

Reload: 101

 

 

Now i used a buffed Chanter.

Dex: 30% Attack and Recovery and Reload Speed?

Penetrating Shot: -20% Recovery

Chant: +20% Recovery, +100% Reload Speed

Armor: -50% Recovery

 

Test Results:

Attack: 40

Recovery: 89

Reload: 41

 

Now let's see if we can calculate those values:

 

Attack: 53/(1+0,3)=40,77 -> probably correct

Recovery: 76/(1+0,2-0,2-0,5+0,3)=95 -> too far off, something is wrong here

Reload: 101/(1+1+0,3)=43,91 -> too far off, something is wrong here

[ErlKing]

You sure it is not that way?

 

 

Attack: 53/1.3=40,77 
Recovery: 76/1.3*1.2/1.2*2=116 
Reload: 101/1.3/2=38

 

 

Though numbers even further from test results

[Baki]

ya, pretty sure thats not the case. Sensuki said it would stack additive, not multiplicative.

[ErlKing]

So, heavy armor + extra low dextery + Penetrating Shot = no recover ever? or there is some cap to not get recovery time / 0