Smite-y Paladin?

[TrashMan]

DISCLAIMER: I'm not in the beta. I watched videos about various classes and looked into their skills and abilities, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

 

Now, I like playing Paladins.

I also like playing "non-standard" paladins (the aligment is goal, not a singular path). So my paladins tend to be more lax and open in most situations and with some good brainstorming, one can justify a lot of things. But this is for D&D so its doesn't apply. What does apply is the combat gameplay.

 

Some time ago I ran into a paladin kit for BG2 called Holy Avenger. It was a very combat-oriented paladin. No lay on hands, no ranged weapons, bonus against evil, penalty against good.

It had some interesting abilities, including an aura of fear (can break enemy morale), aura of vengance (enemies that get too close get a small amount of damage) and my favorite, a high-level ability Heavens Fury (adds all types of elemental damage to your weapon for 2-3 rounds)

Add in some standard cleric spells like Divine Might, Armor of Faith, etc... and you had a very powerful paladin, one I loved to play

 

In PoE paladins use their faith/conviction to burn their souls for various effects. I don't see why this would be so narrowly specialized into leading troops. I like me my freedom to branch outside of a class stereotype. So far I don't really see much in the paladins arsenal for that (other than that skill that marks one as preferred enemy)

 

So in case some devs are reading, I hope you take that into account.

Failing that, PoE should be moddable enough that I can tweak it to my linking (I hope)

[Mr. Magniloquent]

The Bleak Walker Order/Oath may appeal to you mechanically, and several others may appeal to you from a role-play standpoint. I would not hope for anything beyond what you already know of the PoE paladin class, as each class is very narrowly defined to an MMO fashion. From a lore perspective, every class within PoE utilizes some form of soul power/magic to perform their supernatural or fantastic abilities--some just appear more mundane than others. An idealistic cleric or cipher may be better suited to you than a paladin for this game.

[TrashMan]

But I wants me some undead smiting paladin...

[Sensuki]

The Paladin ability "Flames of Devotion" was added specifically because the forum user Gfted1 requested a Smite-like ability. It's a 1/encounter weapon attack that adds bonus fire damage (and you can improve it with talents).

[TrashMan]

What about anti-undead?

any paladin ability/aura for that?

[Luckmann]

What about anti-undead?

any paladin ability/aura for that?

 

No.

 

Thematically, Paladins in Pillars of Eternity aren't holy warriors, they are more like oathbound knights sorted into orders professing an ideal or belonging to a concept of being. This ranges from the Kind Wayfarers, which is an order that is poor but protects wayfarers and travellers, to the Bleak Walkers, that are essentially blackguards that believes that the most merciful and efficient way to solve a conflict is to end it as quickly and brutally as possible - and they strive to enforce the widely-held belief in their brutality and mercilessness by never showing weakness or random acts of unhelpful kindness - to the Goldpact Knights, that are disciplined and focused mercenaries that hold to the pact of gold no matter what.

 

Paladins in general is a rather far cry from the deity- or alignment-oriented Paladins of D&D and other settings, and I would go so far as to say that narratively, they're in a bit of a strange place, with nothing to truly define what a paladin is and isn't; why is the Bleak Walkers considered a Paladin order, instead of just an organization you'd expect to see Fighters in? What is it in the Goldpact Knights that makes it's members Paladins rather than mercenary fighters? It's a bit odd, but there you have it.

 

There are, however, Talents that are available to everyone (not just paladins) that increases damage against chosen enemies. In Pillars of Eternity, "Undead" doesn't seem to exist as a general concept, and they are instead considered "Vessels" (as far as I know). That is, anything that has been endowed with a soul and animated (or simply had the soul made incapable of leaving the "vessel") is considered a vessel, and have given rise to the undead as they are in Pillars of Eternity.

 

Currently, there's Beast Slayer, which increases damage against all Beasts, Primal Bane, which increases damage against all Primordials, Wilder Hunter, which increases damage against all Wilders, Ghost Hunter, which increases damage against all Spirits, and Sanctifier, which increases damage against all Vessels. Yes, I know, as another huge fan of Paladins, it's annoying as all hell that Ghost Hunter and Sanctifier are split up. If you want to be a true "undead hunter", you have to grab both, and you only get 6 Talents throughout the entire game (every other level, and there's 12 levels).

 

Also, they are kinda crappy and boring. They increase damage by 25% against the given type of enemy, which is boring and actually really terrible, considering that it's only against a given type. I wish they did something more, like add some small amount of X damage of Y type or something. But they don't, so, yeah.

 

 

It would be cool to have a Paladin-only Talent that combined the effects of Ghost Hunter and Sanctifier, but didn't stack with either.

 

Edited February 18, 2015 by Luckmann

[Lychnidos]

 

Also, they are kinda crappy and boring. They increase damage by 25% against the given type of enemy, which is boring and actually really terrible, considering that it's only against a given type. I wish they did something more, like add some small amount of X damage of Y type or something. But they don't, so, yeah.

 

 

And what is more interesting about bonus damage that's always the same type, compared to a bonus damage that changes accordingly to the attack you use? 

[aeonsim]

There are also slayer enchantments for weapons which gives an additional +5acc and 25% damage. In the beta you can pace up to 3 enchantments on a weapon so you could pick one of the slayer talents then put the ghost & vessel slaying enchantments on your favorite sword. Which would stack up to give you +50% DMG and +5 acc vs one class then +25% DMG and 5acc against the group you don't have a hunting talent for. While still leaving you with a slot on the weapon for the weapon quality enchantments or something else.

 

Combine that with the smite ability and say the bleak walkers talent to add corrode damage to an attack and you could end up with an attack that does:

+50% base damage with increased chance of crit (+25% dmg)

+100% fire damage

+50% Corrode damage

+ the third weapon slot bonus.

For a total attack initial attack of at least standard DMG + 200% bonus damage against undead or similar.

Edited February 19, 2015 by aeonsim

[Luckmann]

 

 

Also, they are kinda crappy and boring. They increase damage by 25% against the given type of enemy, which is boring and actually really terrible, considering that it's only against a given type. I wish they did something more, like add some small amount of X damage of Y type or something. But they don't, so, yeah.

 

 

And what is more interesting about bonus damage that's always the same type, compared to a bonus damage that changes accordingly to the attack you use? 

 

 

Anything would make them more interesting than to add a flat +25%. I was thinking of something like adding a small amount (not percentage) of X type (where X varies depending on talent) that is added on all attacks, not just against Target Y (where Y varies depending on talent). That way, they'd at least do something when you're not facing the specific target type, and there'd be a reason too take multiples of the talent.

 

Honestly it would probably still be pretty terrible, though.

[TrashMan]

 

What about anti-undead?

any paladin ability/aura for that?

 

No.

 

Thematically, Paladins in Pillars of Eternity aren't holy warriors, they are more like oathbound knights sorted into orders professing an ideal or belonging to a concept of being. This ranges from the Kind Wayfarers, which is an order that is poor but protects wayfarers and travellers, to the Bleak Walkers, that are essentially blackguards that believes that the most merciful and efficient way to solve a conflict is to end it as quickly and brutally as possible - and they strive to enforce the widely-held belief in their brutality and mercilessness by never showing weakness or random acts of unhelpful kindness - to the Goldpact Knights, that are disciplined and focused mercenaries that hold to the pact of gold no matter what.

 

Paladins in general is a rather far cry from the deity- or alignment-oriented Paladins of D&D and other settings, and I would go so far as to say that narratively, they're in a bit of a strange place, with nothing to truly define what a paladin is and isn't; why is the Bleak Walkers considered a Paladin order, instead of just an organization you'd expect to see Fighters in? What is it in the Goldpact Knights that makes it's members Paladins rather than mercenary fighters? It's a bit odd, but there you have it.

 

I know.

That however, doesn't mean paladins can't be anti-undead.

You can explain it in many ways.

For example: A paladins soul and life burn so brightly, that undead, who long for life and a have splinter of a soul left, are both attracted to it (it is something they want) and are burned by it, since it's too intense for them.

Or you don't even have to explain it. Say the schoolars don't agree or don't know why.

 

[TrashMan]

There are also slayer enchantments for weapons which gives an additional +5acc and 25% damage. In the beta you can pace up to 3 enchantments on a weapon so you could pick one of the slayer talents then put the ghost & vessel slaying enchantments on your favorite sword. Which would stack up to give you +50% DMG and +5 acc vs one class then +25% DMG and 5acc against the group you don't have a hunting talent for. While still leaving you with a slot on the weapon for the weapon quality enchantments or something else.

 

Combine that with the smite ability and say the bleak walkers talent to add corrode damage to an attack and you could end up with an attack that does:

+50% base damage with increased chance of crit (+25% dmg)

+100% fire damage

+50% Corrode damage

+ the third weapon slot bonus.

For a total attack initial attack of at least standard DMG + 200% bonus damage against undead or similar.

 

That the weapon doing the heavy lifting, not the class.

 

It's like having a mage class that doesn't have any magic skills, but rather a dozen magical items that each can cast a spell or two.

[Luckmann]

 

There are also slayer enchantments for weapons which gives an additional +5acc and 25% damage. In the beta you can pace up to 3 enchantments on a weapon so you could pick one of the slayer talents then put the ghost & vessel slaying enchantments on your favorite sword. Which would stack up to give you +50% DMG and +5 acc vs one class then +25% DMG and 5acc against the group you don't have a hunting talent for. While still leaving you with a slot on the weapon for the weapon quality enchantments or something else.

 

Combine that with the smite ability and say the bleak walkers talent to add corrode damage to an attack and you could end up with an attack that does:

+50% base damage with increased chance of crit (+25% dmg)

+100% fire damage

+50% Corrode damage

+ the third weapon slot bonus.

For a total attack initial attack of at least standard DMG + 200% bonus damage against undead or similar.

 

That the weapon doing the heavy lifting, not the class.

 

It's like having a mage class that doesn't have any magic skills, but rather a dozen magical items that each can cast a spell or two.

 

I wanted to say that too; yeah, you can stack modifiers up, but the +25% Against <Creature Type> is still just +25% and nothing else. All the other modifiers you can get with or without those talents anyway, so stacking is really a moot point. They're still underwhelming and boring, and you still have to grab two of them (again, out of 6 total Talents) to get that "Paladin feel" right (Spirit & Vessel).

[Sensuki]

Well the PE Wizard cannot cast spells without a Grimoire

[aeonsim]

BG2:

Paladin + Carsomyr, The Holy Avenger = AWESOME

Paladin + normal weapon = meh, works all right...

[aeonsim]

 

There are also slayer enchantments for weapons which gives an additional +5acc and 25% damage. In the beta you can pace up to 3 enchantments on a weapon so you could pick one of the slayer talents then put the ghost & vessel slaying enchantments on your favorite sword. Which would stack up to give you +50% DMG and +5 acc vs one class then +25% DMG and 5acc against the group you don't have a hunting talent for. While still leaving you with a slot on the weapon for the weapon quality enchantments or something else.

 

Combine that with the smite ability and say the bleak walkers talent to add corrode damage to an attack and you could end up with an attack that does:

+50% base damage with increased chance of crit (+25% dmg)

+100% fire damage

+50% Corrode damage

+ the third weapon slot bonus.

For a total attack initial attack of at least standard DMG + 200% bonus damage against undead or similar.

 

That the weapon doing the heavy lifting, not the class.

 

It's like having a mage class that doesn't have any magic skills, but rather a dozen magical items that each can cast a spell or two.

 

 

The Class/Paladin is responsible for +150% of the bonus damage from that attack. A maxed out weapon only gives something like +100%, assuming Damaging 3 is +50%, Slayer + 25% and the additional damage type +25% (though superb weapon is +40%?, so max maybe +115% on weapon? ).

 

So give a Paladin a maxed out weapon and they can deal weapon damage +250-265% bonus damage with one hit, Give it to a different class and they can only do +100-115% bonus damage...

[anameforobsidian]

That the weapon doing the heavy lifting, not the class.

 

Then it's pretty true to BG2. Rimshot.

[TrashMan]

 

That the weapon doing the heavy lifting, not the class.

 

It's like having a mage class that doesn't have any magic skills, but rather a dozen magical items that each can cast a spell or two.

 

The Class/Paladin is responsible for +150% of the bonus damage from that attack. A maxed out weapon only gives something like +100%, assuming Damaging 3 is +50%, Slayer + 25% and the additional damage type +25% (though superb weapon is +40%?, so max maybe +115% on weapon? ).

 

So give a Paladin a maxed out weapon and they can deal weapon damage +250-265% bonus damage with one hit, Give it to a different class and they can only do +100-115% bonus damage...

 

 

But that +100% damage has nothing to do with demonic/undead.

 

Same flavor and something a bit more than +X damage would be nice

x% chance to set the enemy on fire?

x% chance to outright kills said enemy type?

x& chance to panic the enemy?

[Gfted1]

That would be a cool idea. I recently found a belt in D3 that: "Chance on hit to create a chaos field that Blinds and Slows enemies inside for 2–4 seconds." and its super fun when it procs.

[Lephys]

Simply letting everyone have a sort of "favored enemy" choice at character creation might be cool. It could qualify for part of the Background selection. Maybe.

 

But, yeah, fun procs are pretty great. I like it when the possibilities for the proc circumstances are very interesting. Like "whenever you're immobilized, such-and-such happens," or "every time the enemy misses, chance to blind them," etc. Adds a whole 'nother layer to just "when you hit something, one of many things happens."

 

Heck, you can even do it with things like missile-weapon ammo. Some kind of shrapnel arrow/bolt or something, for example. "Chance on hit to strike up to 3 nearby targets with 15% damage."

[Luckmann]

 

 

That the weapon doing the heavy lifting, not the class.

 

It's like having a mage class that doesn't have any magic skills, but rather a dozen magical items that each can cast a spell or two.

 

The Class/Paladin is responsible for +150% of the bonus damage from that attack. A maxed out weapon only gives something like +100%, assuming Damaging 3 is +50%, Slayer + 25% and the additional damage type +25% (though superb weapon is +40%?, so max maybe +115% on weapon? ).

 

So give a Paladin a maxed out weapon and they can deal weapon damage +250-265% bonus damage with one hit, Give it to a different class and they can only do +100-115% bonus damage...

 

 

But that +100% damage has nothing to do with demonic/undead.

 

Same flavor and something a bit more than +X damage would be nice

x% chance to set the enemy on fire?

x% chance to outright kills said enemy type?

x& chance to panic the enemy?

 

 

It doesn't directly relate to Paladins necessarily, but when it comes to these individual talents, I really like that idea. Something along the lines of:

• Beast Slayer - Increases damage against all Beasts by 25% and adds a 2.5% chance to cause a Stun on all Hits and Crits (Doubles to 5% on Crits).
• Primal Bane - Increase damage against all Primordials by 25% and adds a 5% chance to cause a long-term Corrosive DoT on all Hits and Crits (Doubles to 10% on Crits).
• Wilder Hunter - Increases damage against all Wilders by 25% and adds a 10% chance to cause extra Crushing Damage on all Grazes, Hits and Crits (5%, 10% and 20% respectively).
• Ghost Hunter - Increases damage against all Spirits by 25% and adds a 5% chance to cause a Short-Range AoE Freeze attack on all Grazes, Hits and Crits (2.5%, 5%, and 10% respectively).
• Sanctifier - Increases damage against all Vessels by 25% and adds a 2.5% chance to cause a short-term Burn DoT that also increases Accuracy against that target by +5 on all Hits and Crits (Doubles to 5% on Crits).

This isn't tuned at all, and shouldn't be taken as mechanical suggestions, but conceptual ones. These Talents are currently underwhelming and fundamentally boring, and adding something extra to each might require some tuning, but at least it'd make them somewhat useful 100% of the time (as opposed to absolutely only when facing X opponent) and more interesting (in that they have a chance to cause interesting or useful effects).

 

[TrashMan]

That would be a cool idea. I recently found a belt in D3 that: "Chance on hit to create a chaos field that Blinds and Slows enemies inside for 2–4 seconds." and its super fun when it procs.

 

Uuu..that sounds like fun.

 

Strange and multiple effects are always better than just a flat +x damage