REAL Time... (with pause)

[Surface Reflection]

Really?

 

After three pages you "dont get" what im suggesting, after me telling exactly what about a dozen times... and you talk to a third person about what im actually suggesting while answering and referencing his contribution, an idea and presentation that NWN had? Which he gives as an example that is actually very related to what we are actually talking about.

 

He never claimed anywhere thats my thought process. He is making his own example and yes, thats pretty close generally.

 

 You even try to imply that the alternative is also a completely absurd notion of "attack for attack" animations despite several explanations i made that say practically the opposite of such extremes.

 

its pretty obvious that its the usual "i dont like what they are saying - have nothing factual or relevant to add - go to strawman and ad hominems teritory".

Is it? Or maybe you just didnt pay any attention at all so far?

 

 

 

^That didn't stop NWN1 from having good dodge/parry/shield-block animations and lively looking combat.  (NWN2 fell down here)

I agree it's not a priority and I'll be satisfied with BG level of animation.  But that doesn't make dodge/parry/shield-block animations non-valuable in this type of game.
The time for the dodge/etc needn't be taking control away from the player (as this isn't a twitch game) - it's just playing during attack resolution while the character is currently just standing idle.

Agreed. Even BG at this point had some movement in combat, and second one was even better. Although it was relatively simple stuff.

 

As i said, special moves like succeful dodge or parry, critical strike or stuff like that should have character movement that is under control of stats and mechanics. You already get knocked down, paralyzed or stuff like that.

If you get a critical and suffer some status effect you dont expect to be able just to click and get that character performing as if nothing happened.

 

 

You also get it backwards whats a twitch game. of course there are versions of it and some had done it badly, by taking control away from the player too much in fact, but generally speaking the player has more control over his avatar or character moves in twitch action games. its only natural, right?

Edited December 29, 2014 by Surface Reflection

[Luridis]

Really?

 

After three pages you "dont get" what im suggesting, after me telling exactly what about a dozen times... and you talk to a third person about what im actually suggesting while answering and referencing his contribution, an idea and presentation that NWN had? Which he gives as an example that is actually very related to what we are actually talking about.

 

He never claimed anywhere thats my thought process. He is making his own example and yes, thats pretty close generally.

 

 

 

Is that some sort of convulsive strawman brain structure there, so you like just... automatically interpret it like you do?

rhetorical question.

 

 

its pretty obvious that its the usual "i dont like what they are saying - have nothing factual or relevant to add - go to strawman and ad hominems teritory".

 

Is it?

 

If you are talking to me... Well you can take your bizarre hostility and just shove it.

 

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have better things to do.

Edited December 29, 2014 by LadyCrimson
Photo illustration was not neccesary

[Surface Reflection]

right.... right. its me that is hostile. sure thing.

 

its obvious, after all.

[Luridis]

Yea, I was trying to figure out what you were asking for because the choices they have are pretty obvious and come down to three. One is a time sink, one they're already doing and one wouldn't make sense at all.

 

This post should be merged with the wall of text. 700 words of what a game that's been in development for 2 years "should have".

[Surface Reflection]

Yea, I was trying to figure out what you were asking for

Yeah, trying very hard.

Instead of reading what i said and have been repeating several times over. Instead... its better if you "try to figure it out".

 

And then talk about what i am "actually thinking" to a third person.

 

 

because the choices they have are pretty obvious and come down to three. One is a time sink, one they're already doing and one wouldn't make sense at all.

 

You got the : "making empty declaratory statements" part right"  And being mewling passive aggressive stereotype.

That repeats itself after he says he will go away while sniffing and talking into his ****.

 

 

 

This post should be merged with the wall of text. 700 words of what a game that's been in development for 2 years "should have".

 

 

and burned at the stake too

Edited December 29, 2014 by Surface Reflection

[Luridis]

Well, at least your avatar fits... I see you do love your own barking.

[LadyCrimson]

A little too much warring all around, not enough topic discussion. Thread pruned...we'll try it again for a while. Try to play nice in the sandbox this time?

[Surface Reflection]

Nice.

You could have deleted five posts above yours too, as far as im concerned.

 

Would be nicer reading.

 

 

As to the subject at hand, some better body movement in combat, some special attacks or defense moves, some difference in movement of different creatures (as in - not suicidal run forward)  ... would go a long way in this case, especially with improvements in enemy Ai and maybe changing how engagement works.

 

And speaking honestly, im of the opinion such a big super talented and experienced team as PoE team is could do a lot in the months remaining, if they would really want to do it and put their minds and skills to it. 

[Lephys]

I do very much agree that the visual translation of real-time action greatly supports the pace of real-time combat. Even if it's purely aesthetic, but especially if it goes beyond that a little.

 

As a basic example, I'll take a left swing, right swing, thrust "combo" animation and three, more frequent attacks with less damage per actual strike over 1 same attack every 3-times-as-long animation any day. Even if it's the exact same sequence of animations every time (not preferred, but acceptable.)

 

In fact, I think real-time combat in these types of game, in general, could benefit from focusing much more on conditions of the fight, than on sequences of completely-standalone actions and choices in battle. Maybe that's why I like the idea of engagement so much, as well as why it doesn't fit as well as it could into the current state of the game.

 

Maybe I'm crazy, but I excitedly imagine two melee characters clashing with sword and shield, trading blows, frequently parrying, interrupting each other, etc, gaining ground, losing footing, all that. Then, you've got an intuitive momentum to your combat. From a player standpoint, it allows you to lead combatants around the battlefield (unless they want to stop following and allow you to get away) or drive them back into walls (potentially -- you'd have to control the factors in such a way to achieve it, not just use your 'Push them back into the walls' ability), among other things. Clean hits would actually be decently rare on both sides, at first at least. Until you got someone to lose footing, or otherwise gained some sort of advantage. When the advantage belonged to your foe, you'd have to focus on turning that around, or at least taking their advantage away.

 

*shrug*. I can understand why a project like PoE might not do such a huge amount of animation work, etc., just for such a system. But, ideally, it would be great to see that type of concept attempted for a real-time game.

[Silent Winter]

You also get it backwards whats a twitch game. of course there are versions of it and some had done it badly, by taking control away from the player too much in fact, but generally speaking the player has more control over his avatar or character moves in twitch action games. its only natural, right?

that's kinda what I meant.  In a twitch game, you'd find lengthy animations, that stop you controlling the character, annoying - in PoE, you can't perform an action right at that moment anyway, so it's not 'taking control away'

[Surface Reflection]

 

You also get it backwards whats a twitch game. of course there are versions of it and some had done it badly, by taking control away from the player too much in fact, but generally speaking the player has more control over his avatar or character moves in twitch action games. its only natural, right?

that's kinda what I meant.  In a twitch game, you'd find lengthy animations, that stop you controlling the character, annoying - in PoE, you can't perform an action right at that moment anyway, so it's not 'taking control away'

 

 

Oh, I understood you wrong then. ;P sorry.

Yeah, we think the same really. Often when playing an rpg your character is busy doing something in combat already. Executing some order you gave. Its not an "animation that is taking control away" from anyone but just your character performing some feat or doing something. That you told him to do.

 

Then, adding more of that practically means your characters and enemies would have more to do.

Especially if its reflecting the mechanics and not being there just for show.

 

 

I do very much agree that the visual translation of real-time action greatly supports the pace of real-time combat. Even if it's purely aesthetic, but especially if it goes beyond that a little.

 

As a basic example, I'll take a left swing, right swing, thrust "combo" animation and three, more frequent attacks with less damage per actual strike over 1 same attack every 3-times-as-long animation any day. Even if it's the exact same sequence of animations every time (not preferred, but acceptable.)

 

Yes... but what i would really like to see is fighters moving around instead of standing in place. Animals and creatures doing something else then running straight into the party... stuff like that. Not just different swings and attacks. More natural body moving during combat. For everyone. And that then could be used by Ai to plan better scenarios, to combine different ingredients.

 

 

In fact, I think real-time combat in these types of game, in general, could benefit from focusing much more on conditions of the fight, than on sequences of completely-standalone actions and choices in battle. Maybe that's why I like the idea of engagement so much, as well as why it doesn't fit as well as it could into the current state of the game.

 

*shrug*. I can understand why a project like PoE might not do such a huge amount of animation work, etc., just for such a system. But, ideally, it would be great to see that type of concept attempted for a real-time game.

 

yeah, maybe some day. there was a few kickstarters that were shooting for such very ambitious enhanced combat... maybe some of them will come to fruition.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Surface Reflection

[Luridis]

I'll just leave this here for you. No, it's not an argument thing.

 

[Nakia]

I am convinced that Orientals know how to do combat far better than Westerners.

[Luridis]

I linked it up to point out what it is... real time animations of the attacks, blocks, etc. And, hit or miss based on actual collision detection. The only western RPG I've seen do this, well that I have personal experience with is Legends of Aetherius, it was a Steam early access game that has since been abandoned by it's developers.

[Surface Reflection]

That has no relevance here since its completely different PoV and style of the game. Another reapeat of argument from absurdity.

if you cant do it like this single player action rpg game then nothing should be done at all - idiocy.

 

Still trying to implant the same strawman from pages ago about absurd idea that every attack has to be modelled visually.

That he himself invented.

 

In all that telepathy about figuring out what i really mean, like.

 

= On ignore, irrelevant.

[Quadrone]

I do very much agree that the visual translation of real-time action greatly supports the pace of real-time combat. Even if it's purely aesthetic, but especially if it goes beyond that a little.

 

As a basic example, I'll take a left swing, right swing, thrust "combo" animation and three, more frequent attacks with less damage per actual strike over 1 same attack every 3-times-as-long animation any day. Even if it's the exact same sequence of animations every time (not preferred, but acceptable.)

 

In fact, I think real-time combat in these types of game, in general, could benefit from focusing much more on conditions of the fight, than on sequences of completely-standalone actions and choices in battle. Maybe that's why I like the idea of engagement so much, as well as why it doesn't fit as well as it could into the current state of the game.

 

Maybe I'm crazy, but I excitedly imagine two melee characters clashing with sword and shield, trading blows, frequently parrying, interrupting each other, etc, gaining ground, losing footing, all that. Then, you've got an intuitive momentum to your combat. From a player standpoint, it allows you to lead combatants around the battlefield (unless they want to stop following and allow you to get away) or drive them back into walls (potentially -- you'd have to control the factors in such a way to achieve it, not just use your 'Push them back into the walls' ability), among other things. Clean hits would actually be decently rare on both sides, at first at least. Until you got someone to lose footing, or otherwise gained some sort of advantage. When the advantage belonged to your foe, you'd have to focus on turning that around, or at least taking their advantage away.

 

*shrug*. I can understand why a project like PoE might not do such a huge amount of animation work, etc., just for such a system. But, ideally, it would be great to see that type of concept attempted for a real-time game.

 

Well, of course a complex set of various combat animations would be a treat over the basic 1-2-3 attacks we currently have, no question. Just as long as you understand that this was never an option for PoE. And I know you do, so I have to wonder why you'd even write a long post fantasizing about it.

 

And speaking honestly, im of the opinion such a big super talented and experienced team as PoE team is could do a lot in the months remaining, if they would really want to do it and put their minds and skills to it. 

 

Your opinions are fascinating. But it's still unlikely to happen for reasons already pointed out before.

I'd also like to point out that the PoE team is not "big" as only a fraction of Obsidian employees are working on PoE.

[Surface Reflection]

Im not sure why are you even posting anything if you have nothing to add except repeating that ... "its all pointless".

Or "i dont know what to say" as a reply to a post taking time and effort to explain things to you. How about just not saying anything if you have nothing to say?

 

who the hell cares what you think about anyone's opinion?

 

 

 

And I know you do, so I have to wonder why you'd even write a long post fantasizing about it.

 

Who the hell are you to judge why he wrote anything? Or criticize him for it?  He was on topic and clearly talked out of enthusiasm about the subject and presented one such advanced model, built on same principles, that could be used in some future game.

 

And you are such a cheap self serving sycophant that you go out of your way to try to berate another poster who is contributing to the topic by outright lying he was talking about PoE despite his clear words in the very quote you posted.

 

 

 

 

/

 

Anyway, in some other good news...

 

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69813-monk-fighting-style-in-392bb-impressions/

 

Looky, looky... new animations - which translates into special power strikes and types of moves in gameplay... = Monk awesome.

 

Seems they forgot they are not supposed to do that but just fix bugs for several months.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Surface Reflection

[Quadrone]

You are becoming hysterical.

While your angry tantrums are a joy to read I honestly tried to lower your expectations when I previously said: "Since PoE is feature complete right now I doubt Obsidian will implement several entirely new sets of animations anytime soon. Some smooting out, yes. Maybe even an additional attack animation or hit animation shared across all classes but no more."

Here's a post where Brandon Adler confirms this: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69201-update-on-the-update/?p=1549248

 

But sure, make all the "What if..." posts you like, I won't stop you.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Quadrone

[Surface Reflection]

You are becoming hysterical.

But sure, make all the "What if..." posts you like, I won't stop you.

 

Ive noticed that you tried to "help me with feeling disappointing" or some other such incredibly idiotic personal phantasmagorical notion. I laughed at how stupid and cheap you are, what intellectual worm. In rl i would have tricked you and fooled you into believing i am buying that, took you somewhere aside and then disfigured you. You stupid pretentious ****.

Thast how smart you really are.

 

Youre shining from a mile off.

 

Help me lowering expectations... ... how disgusting. how low... ughh..

Edited December 30, 2014 by Surface Reflection

[ISC]

More please, dont stop now! 

[Luridis]

You are becoming hysterical.

While your angry tantrums are a joy to read I honestly tried to lower your expectations when I previously said: "Since PoE is feature complete right now I doubt Obsidian will implement several entirely new sets of animations anytime soon. Some smooting out, yes. Maybe even an additional attack animation or hit animation shared across all classes but no more."

Here's a post where Brandon Adler confirms this: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69201-update-on-the-update/?p=1549248

 

But sure, make all the "What if..." posts you like, I won't stop you.

 

He's not hysterical, I'm reasonably certain he suffers from a personality disorder. He goes off on people for posting anything he personally can't find relevance in. He's combative and loves to accuse others of the behavior he himself is clearly exhibiting. IMO anyone who lives with or around him is put into positions where they "can't do anything right" as far as he's concerned. There clearly appears to be an ego problem that is deep rooted, as anyone who's thinking isn't 100% aligned with his is "stupid".

 

You can't ever make peace with a person like this because their every move is specifically designed to prevent that as attacking other people is how they reflect their own superiority to themselves. That's why I posted something that showed well designed combat animations. Even though I do know it is an action game and not 100% aligned with what he was looking for, most people asking a similar question would have seen it and said, "Yea, like that only for the purpose I am talking about." Instead, he attacked... which highlights my point. You can't do anything correctly as far as he is concerned, no one can, they're all lesser creatures.

 

Prediction: I now get attacked and accused of all kinds of things, assuming I'm not on ignore, which I doubt because a person like this need to feed that beast of an ego. But of course, that may come through proxy as well.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Luridis

[Surface Reflection]

Better to make things crystal clear now then watch that pointless drivel for two more pages.

Flushed down the ignore pipe.

 

Seems just having a thread about an idea makes certain psychological profiles go into neurotic episodes. They just cant stand there being a thread they dont like.

And they get so whacked that after a few starting brainfarts they just go into full repeat mode, just to create enough garbage posts , because they really dont care why or what, its not like they have actual counter arguments or points, just dislike and they just want it all to stoooopp...

 

Ive been watching that same dumb behavior online for dozen years now,

so you might wanna imagine how slick and smart and stealthy such geniouses look to me.

[Luridis]

Now he's ignoring me, but several posts back he said he had done so already. And I quote... = On ignore, irrelevant. But, just as I said person feeds on conflict.

 

Seems just having a thread about an idea makes certain psychological profiles go into neurotic episodes. They just cant stand there being a thread they dont like.

 

That first bit is again, projection of his own condition on another. The second bit is a fabrication, as I never said anything about liking or disliking the thread. (Read: Diversion)

 

And they get so whacked that after a few starting brainfarts they just go into full repeat mode, just to create enough garbage posts , because they really dont care why or what, its not like they have actual counter arguments or points, just dislike and they just want it all to stoooopp...

 

Desperation breeds nonsensical statements that include vulgarity, or as near as he thinks he can get away with. It's not about care or not, he will twist it into whatever makes him appear to be correct. This is why I don't think he's 12, as was suggested. I see calculating behind his statements.

 

Ive been watching that same dumb behavior online for dozen years now,

so you might wanna imagine how slick and smart and stealthy such geniouses look to me.

 

Again, everyone who doesn't live up to his standards is dumb, stupid or insert whatever word works here. That last bit is yet another reinforcement of his ego, as everyone is below him.

 

This is a sad thing to see really... I'm not angry at all with him, I pity people like this because it's so rare that they can come out of this.

[Lephys]

Well, of course a complex set of various combat animations would be a treat over the basic 1-2-3 attacks we currently have, no question. Just as long as you understand that this was never an option for PoE. And I know you do, so I have to wonder why you'd even write a long post fantasizing about it.

I wouldn't say it was never an option. A less likely one, perhaps. And/or, it'd be less likely that they'd be able to do it as close to ideally as would be, well... ideal. But, as to why I'd write a "long" post about it? I'm pretty sure that's what discussion is for.

 

Imagine how far humanity would have come in anything if all we did was sit around nixing options to even discuss, much less attempt.

 

I don't want to live in the world where considering ideals alongside limitations is somehow frowned upon.

[Nakia]

 

Well, of course a complex set of various combat animations would be a treat over the basic 1-2-3 attacks we currently have, no question. Just as long as you understand that this was never an option for PoE. And I know you do, so I have to wonder why you'd even write a long post fantasizing about it.

I wouldn't say it was never an option. A less likely one, perhaps. And/or, it'd be less likely that they'd be able to do it as close to ideally as would be, well... ideal. But, as to why I'd write a "long" post about it? I'm pretty sure that's what discussion is for.

 

Imagine how far humanity would have come in anything if all we did was sit around nixing options to even discuss, much less attempt.

 

I don't want to live in the world where considering ideals alongside limitations is somehow frowned upon.

 

I agree we would still be sitting in caves freezing if people hadn't had ideas and shared them.