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What of the Ancient Sith lords


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I think you're being a bit harsh on Bioware for not revealing how Malak lost his jaw. I saw Star Wars in 1977 and will only find out the reason that Darth Vader is more machine than man in May 2005.

 

Now, I'm sure that there is a book or comic somewhere that already explains that and thats fair enough but it isn't explained in the movies until next year.

 

On that note, perhaps someone will write a book or comic that explains the loss of Malak's jaw.

 

For all I know there may already be one.

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Please read ALL before replying to one section. :)

 

Yet Taris doesn't center around the doctor like Korriban does with the Sith tombs.

Korriban doesn't center around the Sith tombs anymore than Taris centers around Davik. Korriban's focus is first and foremost on the Sith Academy. The Sith tombs are just an interesting place one of which is used in testing conducted by the Academy and that is currently undergoing study by them. The Sith tombs are not a major part of the main story or Korriban by any stretch of the imagination just because dead Sith Lords are kewl.

 

The majority of my time on Korriban was spent exploring those tombs for loot and prestige.

The fact you spent a lot of time somewhere does not make it important. I spent a lot of time in the upper city cantina on Taris which didn't have a single main plot related thing going on. (Since the quest for the Sith uniform can be done without getting invited to the party.) That was just my choice. Your choice was to explore every inch of the tombs because their kewl. Thats fine. But there were other ways to get enough prestige and nothing main quest related went on while exploring the tombs.

 

The fact remains that Bioware dropped the ball when it came to fleshing out the Sith Lords backgrounds on Korriban.

There was no ball to drop. KOTOR wasn't The Dead Sith Lords on Korriban. The ball was dropped in not fleshing out Revan and Malak more. Might being able to have used the tablet or holocron to learn some interesting background on Korriban on the Sith have been kewl? Sure.

 

The only reason I knew who Marka Ragnos (Who's name bioware actually misspelled in the game) and Naga Sadow was is because I had read the comics. If I hadn't I wouldn't have gotten any information on them from the Korriban section of the game because it just isn't there.

....So what's your point? We don't need to know any more about them in KOTOR. It's just a tomb of a dead Sith Lord. Nothing more needs knowing about them. Your problem now is that you weren't given background info on the tombs themselves? Maybe you wanted to ask Uthar for a history lesson? Of course their knowledge of the history of the Sith has pretty much been lost with the death of Kun and extinction of the Massassi. So he probably couldn't have told you much more than Ajunta does.

 

Personally I can somewhat excuse that because most Star Wars fans will know who Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow are.

Many SW fans do not know EU and many people that don't even really know SW played KOTOR so your being willing to excuse Ragnos and Sadow's lack of information is silly. My best friend is a SW fan but doesn't know a shred of the EU. When he played the game it didn't bother him in the slightest that he didn't know exactly what Marka Ragnos did or Naga Sadow did. It doesn't matter. They were Sith Lords they got buried on Korriban. Ragnos made as much sense to him as Ajunta did. It only bothers you because you think because two Sith Lords are nearby these two characters you know really well they should have as much detail but they didn't need it and so they didn't receive it. Let's keep in mind MOST Sith were buried on Korriban. They aren't all going to get comic book series about them. Played Jedi Academy? That had them trying to ressurect Ragnos with no information on him at all other than him being the First Great Sith Lord. And he was a big part of the main story. Come to think of it his tomb looked a LOT different....Darn Bioware dropped the ball again and got his tomb wrong! :p

 

However what gets me is Bioware made up two new Sith Lords and buried them right next to two of the greatest Sith of all time without any attempt to explain to the player their significance or role in Sith history.

 

They made up two living Sith Lords also that had some serious indiscrepancies with the EU. Like the Darth title. They had also never been mentioned before despite having a major role in galactic history. Namely wiping out the Mandalorians in the wars. Your "outrage" over something so minor is odd given your silence on something almost exactly the same as what you complain about(important Sith Lords with little backstory and major importance in the SW universe) but 10x worse.

 

You keep assuming they DID something major. Why do you assume this? Proximity to Ragnos and Sadow? Because Ajunta is said to have a powerful sword? I got news for you. It wasn't a very good sword. Neither was Sadow's sword. There were much better weapons and much better swords to use. Sometimes legends have a way of exaggerating things. Especially when you have someone as powerful as say Sadow. He probably could have used a stick and people would have wondered if it wasn't some uber powerful force imbued stick torn from a tree grown by him and infused with all the power of the dark side he ripped from it in a dark rage etc. ;) Perhaps they were there for other reasons. Maybe Ajunta was there JUST because he was one of the first Dark Jedi. How can you be one of the first to discover and harness the power of the dark side and NOT be famous? Even if he didn't destroy entire worlds or anything he can still be revered. Maybe Tulak was just a very wealthy influential Sith (like say Kressh) even though he wasn't an amazingly powerful force user like Sadow.

 

Sure the Valley of kings had a lot of tombs but there were only three great pyramids and as we all know they were tombs for Menefre, Khafra, and Khufu. The tombs of Naga Sadow, Marka Ragnos, Tulak Hord, and Ajunta Pall are the great pyramids of Korriban and there should be some kind of back story to go with each of these Sith.

I think the idea that these tombs are equivalent to the great pyramids of Egypt is ludicrous. Many extremely famous and important pharaohs were buried at the Valley of the Kings and not in pyramids. Which does not diminish what they did in the slightest. And who can argue which is most important? Is the most important pharaoh the one with the biggest pyramid?

 

For goodness sakes you don't think the VALLEY with the tombs of 4 Sith Lords in it wasn't influenced at all by the Valley of the Kings? It was the first thing I thought. Kewl a burial valley for the important Sith... reminds me of the Valley of the Kings.

 

Proximity also has nothing to do at all with importance. What you think Sith tombs were rearranged every time someone died in order of who they considered most important? Of course not. Who says Tulak Hord is on the same level as Ragnos or Sadow? Proximity does not imply equal importance. We also have to take into account that Bioware made their worlds nice and compact. So we may have a false sense of proximity. If they had made their worlds larger maybe they would have decided to place these burial sites 100's of miles from each other.

 

Also there are not a million famous Sith Lords for this time frame just waiting to be placed in those tombs. There's Ragnos, Sadow, Kressh, Kun and Nadd. (Maybe Ive missed one or two.) Of those I doubt Kressh is buried on Korriban, Kun is on Yavin, and Nadd is destroyed. So Bioware could have had two tombs or they could have added a few to add to the kewlness, create some new Sith Lords (easily done since so many are still completely unknown). And if you had the chance would you pass up getting to create a new Sith Lord? :)

 

This could have been easily addressed by having Sith engravings on the tomb walls which you could have read and mosaics depicting their rise and fall.

Ok first of all we did get some backstory on the tombs and Korriban. As much as we needed. Like why the Academy is there. How Revan found the tomb. (Star Map) Who the tombs hold. Old important Sith Lords. etc. Beyond that were getting into unnecessary detail. There are many sourcebooks, comics, novels etc. with a lot of information on Korriban and the Sith that would have filled a lot of those little datapads. :)

 

Second of all I think examining some drawings on a wall would have been 1. pretty stupid since the Sith were not a primitive race once the Dark Jedi came. They had technology. Why would they paint murals on a wall in a tomb to tell a story they would assume everyone would know? I just can't buy the Dark Jedi ever decorating their tombs with their life story. Not when one even has a frinkin' computer in it for goodness sakes. Not when you have Force ghosts and datapads etc. 2. There are much kewler ways to learn the rise and fall of the Sith. A holocron with some info or kewlest of all talking to a force ghost of one of those Sith Lords....hmmmm. I mean how much information do you want? They aren't going to put full copies of the ToTJ in there in datapads or whatever. And summaries of it would just confuse casual players even more since they'd be wondering what it had to do with anything(since they wouldn't realize there even is a comic book series with Ragnos and such) and if they should keep it etc.

 

Now you mentioned that we never got the background on Malak's jaw and I agree with you that was another case of Bioware dropping the ball. Did Malak lose it in a fight with a Jedi? Did he lose it when he and Revan were battling one another for the mantle of the Dark Lord just after they had first found the Star Forge? Did Malak just suffer from a case of poor hygiene? I guess we will never know. Personally I liked KOTOR a lot and me saying Bioware sucks is like me saying Primus sucks if you catch my drift. All in all KOTOR is one hell of an RPG with a great overall story. I just wish Bioware did some things better.

I agree. Nothing is perfect. Something can always be improved. Regardless I too still enjoyed KOTOR immensely.

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My take is that Taris and other locations need not have their history or character or whatever told to you. That truly is pointless, as it wouldn't affect the storyline one bit. I agree with you on that. However, Korriban was a location focused mainly on learning more about the Sith and their history/ways. Ajunta was a spirit that could talk to you. Evidently what he told you did make an impact on how you perceived the story. These are two major Sith lords that we know little about. I'm not asking for a life story, but simply whatever warranted them to gain the status to have tombs planted next to Naga Sadow and Marka Ragnos. Have some Sith historian tell us the news or have us dig up some artifact about that that shows us more about them. Perhaps more could have been indirectly revealed through side-quests. True, they were a minor part of the storyline, but a small amount of additional detail could easily flesh them out a bit more. The comparison with the doctor and such is slightly weak, as the doctor has nothing to do with the main quest or Star Wars history. Ajunta and Tulak were minor, but they actually fit the storyline and history. Ajunta had what the Sith considered one of the most powerful dark side weapons in all of history! Two Sith lords sitting next to Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow should have slightly better treatment than was shown. Again, we don't need a cinematic or novel written for both, but they were definitely intriguing. The fact that we have discussions on them shows that they could have been fleshed out a little more consistently. Last I checked, no one debated much on the doctor  ;)

 

Well in all technicality, Marka and NAga might not even be next to Ajunta and Tulak. For one the Valley of Dark Lords in KOTOR isn't the actual one that the EU has been showing for as long as it's been around. The actual Valley is located in a Canyon with hundreds if not thousands of tombs lined up and incerted into the canyon walls. Marka Ragnos tomb is in the image of himself. Not to mention that Naga Sadow's body isn't on Korriban but on Yavin, so his tomb is a Memorial. Which means that KOTOR just showed 4 tombs, but if continuity ever gets a hold of the Valley in KOTOR, Ajunta and Tulak might be way down the line from Marka and Sadow.

 

So lighten up.

KOTOR 2 must be completed

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