About player walking/running animations

[Jfk003]

(I am not taking part in the Beta - I should mention it directly)

 

Hi there,

I was reading the boards and keeping an eye on a game that, after all, I backed on KS, and was quite surprised to see that nobody really mentioned walking and running animations.

 

Now, granted, gameplay is king and ultimately more important, but looking at various videos of PoE, like this one:

 

... and then seeing the absolutely amazing Torment one:

 

...I am under the impression that, in PoE, the walking/running animations are very stiff and robotic. In Torment, for instance, it seems to me that the players adjust their pace at the end of the run, and overall it just looks way smoother. Could be the cloaks that the characters are wearing in the Torment video that give this vibe, who knows. Still, the legs move organically, it just "flows".

 

But here in PoE, while I love the graphics, once I see the game "run" (no pun intended), I am quite annoyed by the animations of the player characters. They suddenly run like chickens, then brutally stop. Then move again. Robots, really.

Surely there has to be a way to make them smoother ? It's a detail that, for me at least, seems to break the immersion.

 

At the same time, I might be the only one to have noticed it, but let me put it this way: since the game is a Ferrari in the world of RPGs, why would you let it run with square tires while everything else is brillant ?

 

It gives that "feel" of old things; not old in the sense "yay infinity engine is good more of that", but in the sense "they improved everything but not this, crap".

When I play, I play for the gameplay, but I also play for the adventure, the travels and all. The scenery. The guys running through that scenery. There is nothing you wil see more during your gameplay experience than these animations (and UI, granted).

Fun fact, showed the video to a non-gamer, he wasn't attracted...because of the animations. He thought it was from the 90s. Which it is, in spirit, but visually it should not. To me that's very much a game of 2014/15, but these animations, man...these are pure 90, sadly.

 

What do you feel about that?

Edited November 28, 2014 by Jfk003

[IndiraLightfoot]

When the beta came out, I immediately pointed out that the party members all move robotically - they start, walk and stop abruptly, and in sync. I wouldn't go as far as immersion-breaking, but I certainly agree with the gist of your point. I am too impressed with the animations shown in that T:ToN glimpse, and I am very glad that I backed it too.

[Jfk003]

the party members all move robotically - they start, walk and stop abruptly, and in sync.

 

Yes, I forgot to mention that they even stop in sync. It's crazy by 2014 standards. But then I agree that many players won't be all to disturbed by that, but to me, it looses a bit of its organic side, we are closer to an Excel sheet with nice backgrounds, in a way. Ok I'm exagerating a bit but you get my point, for me it breaks it somehow.

 

What's more, the Torment team uses the same engine and they show that yes, it *is* possible to do good animations. I think graphically, it's an added value that makes as much sense as water movement and such. It gives life to the game, I think that the key word.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Torment isn't a real-time game. Adjusting movement speed that way in PoE could become quite problematic for combat, stealth and other aspects of gameplay.

 

I also don't see what's supposed to be significant about a non-gamer not liking this game.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Quetzalcoatl

[Jfk003]

Torment isn't a real-time game. Adjusting movement speed that way in PoE could become quite problematic for combat, stealth and other aspects of gameplay.

 

I also don't see what's supposed to be significant about a non-gamer not liking this game.

 

Frankly, I don't consider PoE to be real time either. It is not Diablo, agreed, and most of us will press space to pause all the time anyway. I don't think it's the point.

 

As for the non-gamer, well I should have mentionned that he plays fifa only - maybe gta. That doesn't make him a gamer to me, and he might not be the target audience, but if I follow your train of thought, basically, we should just forget all bells and whistles because "us infinity engine player know stuff and don't need that crap". The significant thing is that everything is done to appeal to a large base, and animations stick out like a sore thumb. And again, Torment does it with the same engine.

 

When all the geeks and freaks (I include myself in that, it is not negative by any mean) have bought the game, is it not important to broaden your audience ?

[Sheikh]

Menial quests make me feel uneasy   I would not feel very important doing these menial qeusts, hope I can avoid them in the game.

 

Why would an ogre need to steal pigs? He could just crush the owner and take them.

 

 

The significant thing is that everything is done to appeal to a large base

No, its done to appeal to the players who will play anyway, not to get more players.

 

When all the geeks and freaks (I include myself in that, it is not negative by any mean) have bought the game, is it not important to broaden your audience ?

 

 

Thats up to Obsidian not you. Its purely their choice and down to their opinion of how to approach this.

 

My opinion is that, no. You can appeal to a large audience just by making a great game, you dont need to artificially compensate for the lacklusterliness of the game by making graphics shinier or animations smoother.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Sheikh

[Lysen]

Can you even walk in beta? I think walking is disabled, you can only run or stealth.

[Falkon Swiftblade]

what's bonkers is I'm fairly certain their animation team rigged their models and animated them in maya too, when unity comes with software that basically does it all for you in minutes. Where as their older methodology takes days or weeks per rig. I feel bad for saying it, but they could have spent $200-500 for an animation software that already has most animations already done and the stock animations would have looked better than anything I've seen since this was first shown. 

[Quetzalcoatl]

 

Torment isn't a real-time game. Adjusting movement speed that way in PoE could become quite problematic for combat, stealth and other aspects of gameplay.

 

I also don't see what's supposed to be significant about a non-gamer not liking this game.

 

Frankly, I don't consider PoE to be real time either. It is not Diablo, agreed, and most of us will press space to pause all the time anyway. I don't think it's the point.

I have no idea how this follows from what I said. It literally has nothing to do with what I said, or what's being discussed - who said anything about Diablo? Like I said, PoE is a game with real-time combat. Yes, you can pause, but nothing happens unless you stop pausing. Responsiveness is important for a real-time game. If characters start arbitrarily changing their movement speeds, this would seriously mess up combat or other portions of the game that involve movement, like stealth.

 

I also have to disagree with T:ToN's movement animations looking better. While the characters adjusting their movement speed dynamically does look incredibly impressive, I find the walking/running animations themselves to look inferior to PoE's. They look a bit floaty and inaccurate, as if the characters are gliding or slightly hovering over the ground. Though I suppose that would be pretty normal in the Numenera setting.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Quetzalcoatl

[Bryy]

 you dont need to artificially compensate for the lacklusterliness of the game by making graphics shinier or animations smoother.

 

... what?

 

What is this?

 

"You don't need to make the game better by fixing up graphics and animation"?

[Sheikh]

Regarding walking animations, they are obviously far better in toremtn but I honestly dont care too much.

... what?

 

What is this?

 

"You don't need to make the game better by fixing up graphics and animation"?

 

Yeah. Graphics make almost no difference as long as they portray what is in the game functionally.

[Bryy]

Yup, and if you have graphical screw ups (artifacts), it makes for a messy, sloppy game.

[Sheikh]

Yup, and if you have graphical screw ups (artifacts), it makes for a messy, sloppy game.

 

Yeah but you dont need good quality graphics to not have artifacts.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Sheikh

[Bryy]

 

Yup, and if you have graphical screw ups (artifacts), it makes for a messy, sloppy game.

 

Yeah but you dont need good quality graphics to not have artifacts.

 

Nobody is arguing that every game needs photorealistic graphics an explosions.

 

You're creating artifical drama where there is none.

[Sheikh]

Possible. But I will continue to do so, if I feel there is a need to, for preventative purposes or to overcompensate.

[Lephys]

This kinda depends on what exactly is meant by "quality" by both of you. It could be referring to the actual realistic fidelity/tech-level of the graphics (like PS4 versus NES), or it could be referring to the execution of whatever level of graphics you're dealing with, OR both, even.

 

It seems like Sheikh might be trying to say that you don't need high-level graphics to have quality graphics (as is evident with the recent influx of pixel-art indie games and such). I could be mistaken, though.

[Sheikh]

Im trying to say I dont really give a **** about graphics as long as they represent whats happening in the game well enough to keep me occupied with its gameplay.

 

What that means in practice is meaningless because everyone has their own level and opinion regarding what is needed to do that and I believe they just go by that and the end. Peace.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Sheikh

[Jfk003]

I didn't want to derail the conversation, maybe by mentioning Diablo and gamers and stuff, I did redirect the whole topic in an unfortunate direction.

 

My point was and still is that we could enjoy better walking and running animations, that's all. I am certainly not saying this has to be done, just putting a suggestion out there.
As for priorities, it is not for me to say. I was expressing an opinion.

 

There is no other pretention for this topic really. If the devs care, good, if not, well I have been expressing a point.

I hope they evaluate the need of such an improvement, and wish them luck for the release in any case.

[Sheikh]

They dont care and they cant do it, they got like 300 000 left and the combat needs fixing alot.

[Jfk003]

They dont care and they cant do it, they got like 300 000 left and the combat needs fixing alot.

No offense, but it's not your call, and it's not mine either.

 

They will have to see, I'm just putting that out there. But I didn't know they had 300k left.

 

Anyway if I'm the only one to find it disturbing then surely they shouldn't bother. I just thought it is worth mentioning, is all.

[Sheikh]

I didnt call anything at all.

 

You are the one who is calling and who still feels the devs have to do what you want them to do.

[Jfk003]

I didnt call anything at all.

 

You are the one who is calling and who still feels the devs have to do what you want them to do.

Did I say that really ?

 

But if you consider I am ordering the devs to do things, when in fact I'm just pointing a potentiel problem, I'm giving up, I can't help you understand english.

[Sheikh]

 

I didnt call anything at all.

 

You are the one who is calling and who still feels the devs have to do what you want them to do.

Did I say that really ?

 

But if you consider I am ordering the devs to do things, when in fact I'm just pointing a potentiel problem, I'm giving up, I can't help you understand english.

 

Yeah you implied that and still are.

 

Your second sentence is you protecting yourself over it. Means you have reason to protect yourself, which means it was true.

[Jfk003]

God, the guys on kickstarter weren't liying when they said the forums were toxic at times.

Anyway good luck to the devs with the filtering of things in there.

[Sheikh]

Yeah JFK, you dont like it so lets label it toxic and moderate it to pieces so perhaps it would be a bit more to your liking.

 

Or you can just either go away or deal with it. Nobody forces you to read or post anything on here and neither does anyone force me to. Thats freedom and it works.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Sheikh