Experience from combat or not - an immersion perspective

[Sarex]

Attempting to apply realism to this process never really makes sense. The idea that "gaining experience by using your skills makes sense" leads to The Elder Scrolls type XP systems where people stand in one place and swing their sword at the air 1,000 times to max out their sword skills. The XP system is an arbitration of your characters' progress.

 

The idea that using skills or killing should give you XP isn't any more realistic than the quest XP system because the XP you gain from killing a goblin with a sword can be applied to making you better at using a bow or summoning spells when you level up, and along the same line the XP gained from unlocking a door can be used to make you better at using a sword. So, how is it realistic that killing goblins with swords makes you better at summoning spells or unlocking doors makes you better at killing goblins with swords?

 

But then again that boobplate physics totally ruining our immersion...

[GrinningReaper659]

 

Attempting to apply realism to this process never really makes sense. The idea that "gaining experience by using your skills makes sense" leads to The Elder Scrolls type XP systems where people stand in one place and swing their sword at the air 1,000 times to max out their sword skills. The XP system is an arbitration of your characters' progress.

 

The idea that using skills or killing should give you XP isn't any more realistic than the quest XP system because the XP you gain from killing a goblin with a sword can be applied to making you better at using a bow or summoning spells when you level up, and along the same line the XP gained from unlocking a door can be used to make you better at using a sword. So, how is it realistic that killing goblins with swords makes you better at summoning spells or unlocking doors makes you better at killing goblins with swords?

 

But then again that boobplate physics totally ruining our immersion...

 

 

Well, joking aside, I'm not really a fan of the boobplate. It doesn't ruin my immersion but I'd say this is a case of the difference between trying to attain realism vs. internal consistency. The boobplate often violates the internal consistency, which doesn't have anything to do with realism.

 

If the male warriors are decked out in full plate and packing steel while the female warriors have decided to don their ever so lovely chainmail bikinis (not the same as boobplate I know, but the same principle applies), then you've got a bit of a consistency issue that may or may not be a problem depending on the tone of the game.

[Sarex]

Well, joking aside, I'm not really a fan of the boobplate. It doesn't ruin my immersion but I'd say this is a case of the difference between trying to attain realism vs. internal consistency. The boobplate often violates the internal consistency, which doesn't have anything to do with realism.

 

If the male warriors are decked out in full plate and packing steel while the female warriors have decided to don their ever so lovely chainmail bikinis (not the same as boobplate I know, but the same principle applies), then you've got a bit of a consistency issue that may or may not be a problem depending on the tone of the game.

 

This was a discussion I already participated in, with arguably the biggest troll on this forum (not Volo), and it went down the exact same path you have taken it. The gist of it is that there are bigger consistency issues than that in the game.

 

In the end it's not about realism or consistency, it's just about what is popular to whine about at the present time.

[Sheikh]

Attempting to apply realism to this process never really makes sense. The idea that "gaining experience by using your skills makes sense" leads to The Elder Scrolls type XP systems where people stand in one place and swing their sword at the air 1,000 times to max out their sword skills. 

Not neccessarily. Elder scrolls is just a horrible execution of this. Give me salary like lead designer of Obsidian and I will give you a system that works  .

Edited November 30, 2014 by Sheikh

[Marcvs Caesar]

 

 

 

What if all the options in a quest go against your role-playing style and therefore you have to reject said quest? You won't get experience if you reject a quest right?

Then you dont do the quest. Or you pretend yuor character has some side motive for doing the quest and is really upset that he has to do it, but does it anyway. One of the options of roleplaying in this situation is that if the character does not want to do the quest, he just goes back to menial jobs instead of adventuring, Which means you quit the game and play another character or just do something else and leave the computer.

 

If the game does not give you enough options t realize the roleplaying of your character well, the game is at fault, not you or your characters you made up.

 

My point was that you will be punished for role-playing in a situation like that when it shouldn't be the case. Realistically speaking you improve your skills through practice not by finishing a quest line. Gaining experience by using your skills makes sense, gaining experience because you "finished a questline" does not make any sense.

 

 

Attempting to apply realism to this process never really makes sense. The idea that "gaining experience by using your skills makes sense" leads to The Elder Scrolls type XP systems where people stand in one place and swing their sword at the air 1,000 times to max out their sword skills. The XP system is an arbitration of your characters' progress.

 

The idea that using skills or killing should give you XP isn't any more realistic than the quest XP system because the XP you gain from killing a goblin with a sword can be applied to making you better at using a bow or summoning spells when you level up, and along the same line the XP gained from unlocking a door can be used to make you better at using a sword. So, how is it realistic that killing goblins with swords makes you better at summoning spells or unlocking doors makes you better at killing goblins with swords?

 

If people want to "stand in one place and swing their sword at the air 1,000 times to max out their sword skills" that's their problem, those of us that understand how RPGs work however probably wouldn't do that. I consider Skyrim's skill system to be the best one I've seen so far. Imperfect? Yes, especially the perk system, but aside from that it is the best I've seen so far.

 

I just pointed out the problem, I wasn't defending the gaining of experience from combat. Gaining experience from just one way, particularly only from finishing questlines, is flawed. Why not make it like BG2 and do both combat and quest experience?

Edited December 1, 2014 by Marcvs Caesar

[Lephys]

My point was that you will be punished for role-playing in a situation like that when it shouldn't be the case. Realistically speaking you improve your skills through practice not by finishing a quest line. Gaining experience by using your skills makes sense, gaining experience because you "finished a questline" does not make any sense.

Ideally, it's not so simple. Instead of "not-doing" the quest, you simply find out about some situation, and you handle it completely differently.

 

"Oh, please rescue my daughter!"

 

Okay, so you go on your merry way, and you encounter dude's daughter. You "rescue" her, maybe, then hold her ransom yourself. Or dispatch of the kidnappers, and pretend you were unable to rescue her, and make the guy think the only option is to pay the ransom to "them." And you agree to deliver it to them, taking it for yourself.

 

That's not the absolute greatest example, because it doesn't really illustrate how you could "not-do" something to some actual significance. But, the point is, there are a lot of ways to make "not-do-that" an actual "quest" choice. A quest doesn't have to be so simple that it's just "do this one thing and get XP, or do ANYTHING but that one thing and 'miss out' on the quest."