The skills that we have in PoE are currently woefully out of balance. Some skills are more important to have and are useful OUTSIDE OF CONVERSATION NODES, which I consider to be separate things.

 

The thing about skills is that they sort of play as "sandbox mechanics" in that there is really no specific location or condition to utilize or play them, whereas utilizing skills and other elements in conversation nodes is more of a scripted environment, so it is important to consider these two scenarios separately. So, going back to the skills, I believe that they are woefully out of balance.

 

The five skills we have stealth, mechanics, athletics, lore, and survival have varying usefulness outside of scripted environments.

 

As I've said before, the lore skill is by far the more useless of these skills because of the meta-gaming element and noob-trap aspects to it (only noobs pick it and it's a trap skill). The XP "bonuses" to the bestiary/Pokedex - which feels shoe-horned in - non-withstanding, this skill really has no place in the game (again outside of conversation nodes). Furthermore, there really is no "each character gets value out of the skill" aspect to lore. This skill needs serious reworking!

 

Athletics seems very esoteric and currently is a little unclear as to how "fatigue points" are calculated and so plays as a random fatigue generator (lack of information to the player as to what/how fatigue is calculated, might as well make it random).

 

Mechanics, stealth, and survival are much better in terms of having both individual value as well as "sandbox mechanics" playing styles. They work as tools (though survival less so, sort of plays as a passive ability almost) that the player can use to solve problems, etc.

 

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The solution: I've been thinking about survival, lore, and athletics and ways to "balance them" without having to use out-of-place mechanics like XP bonuses, etc. One way to do this would be to consider having a random encounter mechanic where the chance of having a random encounter is based on LORE and survival (more emphasis on LORE). While the total survival pool would determine the chance of a random encounter, each character's individual LORE skill would determine the difficulty and number of enemies (totalling a cumulative number of monsters). This way each character is required to consider lore as a viable skill to purchase. The reasoning behind it would be that as characters know more about the different monsters and their habitats (lore skill) they are better prepared to tackle them individually or or by-pass them completely.

 

The other mechanic would be a more granular camping supplies (thinking like a camping supplies bar). The speed at which campiung supplies are then utilized would be based on each character's individual skill in X or Y skill. I haven't really fleshed out this idea yet, but it is another mechanic to consider when trying to balance the skills as they currently stand.

Interesting post.

 

I must say that athletics is a bit dorky and superfluous.

When you venture up that cliff, trying to reach that egg, I'd much rather have the attributes decide my success, not some convoluted athletics-skill.

For instance, check my character's dex, con and will power, instead.

Interesting post.

 

I must say that athletics is a bit dorky and superfluous.

When you venture up that cliff, trying to reach that egg, I'd much rather have the attributes decide my success, not some convoluted athletics-skill.

For instance, check my character's dex, con and will power, instead.

Agreed. Well, sort of. I think that Might/Dex/Con should factor in somehow. Maybe there's a best outcome if you've got the Might and Dex as well, but still a good outcome if you've just got high Athletics? Dunno. But, Con should definitely determine your stamina/fatigue. Maybe Athletics could, for example, determine how fast you can run, but constitution would determine how long you can go without getting winded. *shrug*

 

Maybe stats should apply modifiers to skills, too? That might work. High Might, Dex, and Con? Maybe you start at 2 Athletics (not including class modifier) instead of 0. Etc. Then, you can just set your DC values for Athletics checks with that in mind. "The highest someone could have at this point would be 6, so let's make 6 the hardest possible outcome, and maybe 3 is a pretty decent one. Less than 3 and you fail or suffer a negative effect." Something like that.

 

At the very least, Athletics needs to have a specific purpose, and not just a "I'll decide random things that sort of pertain to athletics!"

 

Also, I wouldn't be against random encounters, if they were done in an interesting fashion. Maybe if you've got high Survival/Stealth, for example, you get to "place" your party members on the battlefield before combat actually starts? To represent the fact that you actually had time to prepare for the encounter before you were set upon by foes. *shrug*. Stuff like that. If it's juts going to be "You have to fight some doods again... you have to fight some doods again... you have to fight some doods again...", then I wouldn't want it.

 

I think Lore and Survival factoring into the frequency/makeup of your encounters is a good idea. However, you don't want to harshly punish people with all the most frequent, hardcore random encounters just because they don't have stupid amounts of Lore and Survival. Also, without arbitrary kill XP, there'd need to be some other driving incentive (with varying amounts of frequency, that is) for these random encounters. Loot is a good example. Just a "sometimes, this isn't just ALL bad", rather than "every combat encounter is a punishment/waste of your time, at the very least." But then, you don't want them to just become the optimal way to constantly slay stuff and gain infinite goodies. I'm not worried about people deciding that they like getting something beneficial from random encounters, and going out of their way to do it. I'm just worried about making that something that inherently makes the choice not to do it a silly one.

I'm all for random encounters, gives you something to do other than going after silly quests. Perhaps an XP reward for getting past an encounter, like talking out of a situation or just beating the crap out of some bandits will give you XP once you leave the encounter area.

 

I kinda dislike the skills all together. There's too few and only mechanics and stealth seem to have a good use.

The few skill systems I've enjoyed were Fallout, Darklands' and Jagged Alliance 2 for their richness and progression, especially the latter two.

 

 

What I'd like to see is companion skills to be used in conversations, like in NWN2:SoZ.

What I'd like to see is companion skills to be used in conversations,

 

I'd like to see this too. WL2 does the same with companions being allowed to interject and use their dialogue skills as well. Can't see it happening though as the decision has been made to have all dialogue go off your main character.

 

What I'd like to see is companion skills to be used in conversations,

 

I'd like to see this too. WL2 does the same with companions being allowed to interject and use their dialogue skills as well. Can't see it happening though as the decision has been made to have all dialogue go off your main character.

 

And that decision was good. Otherwise, the attribute/skill checks are almost pointless, you are better off not having them at all. How fast do we get the "ass" skills high enough to pass any check?

The best way would be some mix of Baldur's Gate and Fallout, meaning the following:

Each attribute gives points to one or more of the following:  stealth, mechanics, athletics, lore, and survival

On top of that these five skills can be further improved with talents and worn items.