The glamour of 2D combat

[bronzepoem]

 After IGN released the video, some of my friends complained about the model actions.They feel the combat actions are inflexible and unreal, even compare with NWN1.

 

  Of course it's nonsense and incomparable.But that make me think another question.What's the advantage of 2D game in the combat aspect?

 

  As we know when we play 3D games,the realistic models and combat actions make us enjoyable,that's a big advantage. But too realistic also is a weakness.I saw the E3 video of DA:I. It showed a rogue's ability which use chain to catch enemy far away.I think it must cost a lot to design such a complex action.But if in a 2D game, that should be much easier. Like that,in 3D games an action like knocking out the weapon from enemy's hands will be hard to design.But in 2D game we could to do that easily,like in Arcanum. A monk trip enemy down by leg,such action is just a special FX in 2D game, but in 3D game they need to design a lot of new model meshes.

 

  The combat in 2D game is much more abstract. Let's imagine more. For example, to design a top level ranger's ability: summon a griffin(or some flying creatures else） to catch an enemy， then throw it down, or just ride the griffin into the sky，then attack enemies on earth by arrow.A designer of 3D game must be crazy about such a  job.But in a 2D game, it just need an animation, and a shadow on earth.

 

  Although PoE is a 2D/3D game, but most of the combat abilities showed by special FX. So if those combat elements, which hardly showed in 3D game, can be add into PoE, and can be variable enough and balanced enough, the old-school combat will show its great glamour.

Edited July 26, 2014 by bronzepoem

[Monte Carlo]

Good question, but for me it's gameplay, gameplay, gameplay.

 

I'm not saying graphics are unimportant, I'd be a hypocrite. But you can mitigate rough edges with awesome tactix. Look at ToEE, which has easily the most tactical and carefully implemented table-top combat.

[IndiraLightfoot]

MC: Your 6,000th post! Congratz!! And yes, gameplay is paramount.

[Monte Carlo]

6001. My only excuse is I've been here since *checks profile* Feb 2004.

[Rosbjerg]

And WoT topics don't count so it's probably in 7k range...

 

The thing here is, it' all about the aesthethics. Most people won't mind playing primitive graphics as long as they are well presented and the gameplay is great. The indie wave is proof of that.

[archangel979]

I really hope combat animations are improved so that it all looks meatier. I know there is little chance of some kind of physics system, but at least lets see more blood and characters get some "I am hit" animations. 

Is there a plan of gory animations when the damage dealt is an overkill? Something like turning enemy into chunks like in BG (but hopefully better)?

 

Also I loved spell animations in IWD, I really hope we see some of those back. Finger of Death where you see a rose that dies above target head or Disentigrate where body slowly fades away until only selection circle is left and then it also goes away. Those were much better then what BG2 had. 

Also I liked the crazy spell animations of Planescape Torment. I would like to see at  least one of those made for PoE, if only for a less used spell just a homage to PS:T

[bronzepoem]

And WoT topics don't count so it's probably in 7k range...

 

The thing here is, it' all about the aesthethics. Most people won't mind playing primitive graphics as long as they are well presented and the gameplay is great. The indie wave is proof of that.

Yes，indeed I‘m talking about aesthethics， combat aesthethics，more accurately. 

In fact, the gameplay of combat deeply influenced by the aesthethics.

 

The thing here is, most elements about gameplay can be achieved by 3D game now. If we change PST or BG into the aurora engine like DAO，it will just become a better game.Nothing lose.(maybe except the magic in PST,that will be a enormous cost to design CG for those magics)

So the few elements  which hardly achieved by 3D engine, are worth to be considered seriously.

 

Besides, I'm not really worry about non-combat elements in PoE, Tim will deal with them like a piece of cake, with the great experience from Arcanum. So I may more care about the combat part.

[bronzepoem]

 

Is there a plan of gory animations when the damage dealt is an overkill? Something like turning enemy into chunks like in BG (but hopefully better)?

 

Also I liked the crazy spell animations of Planescape Torment. I would like to see at  least one of those made for PoE, if only for a less used spell just a homage to PS:T

Indeed!The animation overkill is a good design. Although that wound cost more in PoE because of the 3D model,but I still wish it could come back.

 

And the crazy spell in PS:T,yes, I love them too! Although the final damage was disappointed

 

In my opinion they are not only aesthethics issues, but gameplay. 

[Lephys]

Thing is... "graphics" is a little too all-encompassing to be useful. I mean, the Wii isn't a very powerful machine, but they made the Metroid Prime games (especially 3) look GORGEOUS! Now, they're still not super-crazy high-rez UNREAL 17 character models and stuff, with sneeze-particle simulation and dynamic eyeball reflection lighting. But, for the world the game's presenting, everything looks great. You don't really notice the lower technical architecture of the graphical elements, because its all doing its job.

 

Hmmm... best way I can say this is, I've played and seen many a game with simply amazing "graphics" (super hi-fidelity models and lighting and all that), but that doesn't really employ them well. I mean, the better the passive graphical quality, the more noticeable the tiniest little glitches/things become. If you have a 43-billion-polygon character model, and you don't have the most realistic animation known to man put in there, it's quite a noticeable disconnect. And, some games have used quite lower-end graphics and still made everything look pretty splendid. It's all about your approach, and the goal of the graphics relative to the given game's design.