The Official Romance Thread

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Sorry, but no.

 

Yes. Truth hurts.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Hiro I wanted to respond to this because you asked a good question earlier

 

Firstly you are 100 % correct that I am a feminist and  as you know I take issues of SJ very seriously, in fact I take them more seriously than Romance. But there is no contradiction here.

 

The sexualisation of a person in game is not necessarily a bad thing. My definition of that means that there is sexual dimension to there character. This could be there appearance or how they conduct themselves. Isabella is a good example of this type of personality and she also happened to be my Romance choice, ahhhh....those Pirate boots

But a person who is sexualised also needs to have other attributes that make them relevant or important. They need to be defined around something else apart from there sexuality. And that's important, so Isabella wasn't just a hottie. She was a important contributor in combat and had an interesting personality

 

But the objectification of a person is where that person has no other purpose but to be an object and this is normally around there looks, so for example if Isabella only looked like she did and had no other valuable combat skills or had no interesting dialogue choices. This is a negative

 

So you can see the difference, the sexualisation of something is not always a bad thing but the objectification of something is

 

 

However, you have said you need the 'looks' and sexualisation of female NPCs to even start a romance. You could choose any other NPC to fill your party but you choose Isabela because of her looks as well. Even if there was another NPC that could fill the role combat wise and/or have an interesting personality, it was the looks that you chose first and seems anything else was secondary and a bonus in your eyes. The main thing for you was her looks, then personality, then combat prowess. It was the sexualisation of the female NPC that you choose and then you worked your party around her? eg. Well I don't need this NPC because Isabela can do this already and she's in my party. So you've already objectified her in this case as well.

 

And there's more to objectification than just 'looks'. As a feminist you would know this, so it's disingenuous to say objectification is only about one thing.

 

I find it very hard to understand why you're taking this stance as a feminist with your justification of sexualisation of female NPCs because you want to romance the 'hottie' in a video game when it seems to go against everything about what I've read on feminists views on this topic. Perhaps some links would help because I have many links where it seems to back me up on this.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Darji]

 

Hiro I wanted to respond to this because you asked a good question earlier

 

Firstly you are 100 % correct that I am a feminist and  as you know I take issues of SJ very seriously, in fact I take them more seriously than Romance. But there is no contradiction here.

 

The sexualisation of a person in game is not necessarily a bad thing. My definition of that means that there is sexual dimension to there character. This could be there appearance or how they conduct themselves. Isabella is a good example of this type of personality and she also happened to be my Romance choice, ahhhh....those Pirate boots

But a person who is sexualised also needs to have other attributes that make them relevant or important. They need to be defined around something else apart from there sexuality. And that's important, so Isabella wasn't just a hottie. She was a important contributor in combat and had an interesting personality

 

But the objectification of a person is where that person has no other purpose but to be an object and this is normally around there looks, so for example if Isabella only looked like she did and had no other valuable combat skills or had no interesting dialogue choices. This is a negative

 

So you can see the difference, the sexualisation of something is not always a bad thing but the objectification of something is

 

 

However, you have said you need the 'looks' and sexualisation of female NPCs to even start a romance. You could choose any other NPC to fill your party but you choose Isabela because of her looks as well. Even if there was another NPC that could fill the role combat wise and/or have an interesting personality, it was the looks that you chose first and seems anything else was secondary and a bonus in your eyes. The main thing for you was her looks, then personality, then combat prowess. It was the sexualisation of the female NPC that you choose and then you worked your party around her? eg. Well I don't need this NPC because Isabela can do this already and she's in my party.

 

And there's more to objectification than just 'looks'. As a feminist you would know this so it's disingenuous to say objectification is only about one thing.

 

It's very weird you're taking this stance as a feminist with your justification of sexualisation of female NPCs because you want to romance the 'hottie' in a video game when it seems to go against everything about what I've read on feminists views on this topic. Perhaps some links would help because I have many links where it seems to back me up on this.

 

There are many types of feminists out there.  For example pro sex and anti sex Feminists.  There is nothing wrong with choosing a person because of their appearance. That is the first thing you see in the real world as well.  The first thing you see is their appearance.  This is how we humans work and you can nothing do about it.  

[BruceVC]

 

Hiro I wanted to respond to this because you asked a good question earlier

 

Firstly you are 100 % correct that I am a feminist and  as you know I take issues of SJ very seriously, in fact I take them more seriously than Romance. But there is no contradiction here.

 

The sexualisation of a person in game is not necessarily a bad thing. My definition of that means that there is sexual dimension to there character. This could be there appearance or how they conduct themselves. Isabella is a good example of this type of personality and she also happened to be my Romance choice, ahhhh....those Pirate boots

But a person who is sexualised also needs to have other attributes that make them relevant or important. They need to be defined around something else apart from there sexuality. And that's important, so Isabella wasn't just a hottie. She was a important contributor in combat and had an interesting personality

 

But the objectification of a person is where that person has no other purpose but to be an object and this is normally around there looks, so for example if Isabella only looked like she did and had no other valuable combat skills or had no interesting dialogue choices. This is a negative

 

So you can see the difference, the sexualisation of something is not always a bad thing but the objectification of something is

 

 

However, you have said you need the 'looks' and sexualisation of female NPCs to even start a romance. You could choose any other NPC to fill your party but you choose Isabela because of her looks as well. Even if there was another NPC that could fill the role combat wise and/or have an interesting personality, it was the looks that you chose first and seems anything else was secondary and a bonus in your eyes. The main thing for you was her looks, then personality, then combat prowess. It was the sexualisation of the female NPC that you choose and then you worked your party around her? eg. Well I don't need this NPC because Isabela can do this already and she's in my party. So you've already objectified her in this case as well.

 

And there's more to objectification than just 'looks'. As a feminist you would know this, so it's disingenuous to say objectification is only about one thing.

 

I find it very hard to understand why you're taking this stance as a feminist with your justification of sexualisation of female NPCs because you want to romance the 'hottie' in a video game when it seems to go against everything about what I've read on feminists views on this topic. Perhaps some links would help because I have many links where it seems to back me up on this.

 

 

You seem to be missing something important, part of a Romance option is obviously the aesthetics . Whats wrong with that? But its not the only thing. Its like going to a Pizza take-away and saying to people "you guys are only eating Pizza because you like the taste"....Duh ??

 

Obviously, that's why they are eating the Pizza. So in the Isabella example I chose Isabella not just because of her looks but also I enjoyed her personality and her contribution in combat, its the same reason I chose Viconia and Romanced Viconia. So the appearance of the person is not the only reason. I could identify with all the Romance choices I made and I respected them as party members for a number of reasons. This is not the same as objectifying someone, I am surprised you can't seem to grasp this?

[Lephys]

Clearly, if you don't completely disregard physical attraction, you're objectifying someone. People who are naturally beautiful should be ashamed that they even exist, and/or purposely go have plastic surgery to look less attractive.

 

You don't have to think someone's an object or de-value humanity just to appreciate someone's perceivable traits.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

You seem to be missing something important, part of a Romance option is obviously the aesthetics . Whats wrong with that? But its not the only thing. Its like going to a Pizza take-away and saying to people "you guys are only eating Pizza because you like the taste"....Duh ??

 

Obviously, that's why they are eating the Pizza. So in the Isabella example I chose Isabella not just because of her looks but also I enjoyed her personality and her contribution in combat, its the same reason I chose Viconia and Romanced Viconia. So the appearance of the person is not the only reason. I could identify with all the Romance choices I made and I respected them as party members for a number of reasons. This is not the same as objectifying someone, I am surprised you can't seem to grasp this?

 

There is a difference between female NPCs in video games and sexualised female NPCs in video games. You would know this. And you can have female NPCs with attractive qualities without them being sexualised. Why wouldn't you want to have female NPCs without them being sexualised? As a feminist, I would think that's what you'd be campaigning for just like the many websites I've seen with young girls, women and feminists do want. You're the polar opposite to all those girls, women and feminists and actually want sexualised female NPCs in games.

 

And as you've stated many times, you go on looks to romance before anything else. And if the character can do other stuff, then that's a bonus for you. But your primary is always looks first. When you're going by looks first, then everything else is secondary.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Clearly, if you don't completely disregard physical attraction, you're objectifying someone. People who are naturally beautiful should be ashamed that they even exist, and/or purposely go have plastic surgery to look less attractive.

 

You don't have to think someone's an object or de-value humanity just to appreciate someone's perceivable traits.

 

No one has said this. So another worthless post by Lephys.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

There are many types of feminists out there.  For example pro sex and anti sex Feminists.  There is nothing wrong with choosing a person because of their appearance. That is the first thing you see in the real world as well.  The first thing you see is their appearance.  This is how we humans work and you can nothing do about it.  

 

So the first thing you see in the real world is women in bikinis walking around the city? Where is that city because I want to get on the next plane and fly there.

[Darji]

 

There are many types of feminists out there.  For example pro sex and anti sex Feminists.  There is nothing wrong with choosing a person because of their appearance. That is the first thing you see in the real world as well.  The first thing you see is their appearance.  This is how we humans work and you can nothing do about it.  

 

So the first thing you see in the real world is women in bikinis walking around the city? Where is that city because I want to get on the next plane and fly there.

 

When you first see Isabella she is not wearing a Bikini. She is wearing a totally normal but sexy revealing outfit. Nothing else. Yes she shows her cleavage but again there is nothing wrong with that. She is a rogue like character and she knows how she can use her body to her advantage. She is using this outfit to get mans attention and then steals from them. Basically she is using men as objects to get money out of them. 

 

Also since this is an RPG you know exactly what kind of character or class Isabella is as well.  

Edited July 24, 2014 by Darji

[BruceVC]

 

You seem to be missing something important, part of a Romance option is obviously the aesthetics . Whats wrong with that? But its not the only thing. Its like going to a Pizza take-away and saying to people "you guys are only eating Pizza because you like the taste"....Duh ??

 

Obviously, that's why they are eating the Pizza. So in the Isabella example I chose Isabella not just because of her looks but also I enjoyed her personality and her contribution in combat, its the same reason I chose Viconia and Romanced Viconia. So the appearance of the person is not the only reason. I could identify with all the Romance choices I made and I respected them as party members for a number of reasons. This is not the same as objectifying someone, I am surprised you can't seem to grasp this?

 

There is a difference between female NPCs in video games and sexualised female NPCs in video games. You would know this. And you can have female NPCs with attractive qualities without them being sexualised. Why wouldn't you want to have female NPCs without them being sexualised? As a feminist, I would think that's what you'd be campaigning for just like the many websites I've seen with young girls, women and feminists do want. You're the polar opposite to all those girls, women and feminists and actually want sexualised female NPCs in games.

 

And as you've stated many times, you go on looks to romance before anything else. And if the character can do other stuff, then that's a bonus for you. But your primary is always looks first. When you're going by looks first, then everything else is secondary.

 

 

You are absolutely correct, you can have attractive qualities without them being sexualised in a game. But I am not a developer, I don't create the Romance options. I merely base my interaction with my party members on what is available from a NPC perspective. And as others have mentioned the consideration of sexualisation is a fact in marketing of most products  and a reality of life. We can't and won't be able to change this.

 

Let me give you an example, I go to bars regularly with friends probably every second week. At these bars they have shooters girls who come you table and sell you shooters. These girls are all attractive ladies, there are no overweight or unattractive ladies who do this. Now you can see this as a negative and say " this is wrong, this is clearly selling shooters  by demonstrating the sexualisation of the shooter girls and manipulating men to buy shooter because the girls are hot". But the companies that own these services will tell you that the reality is customers generally only buy shooters from girls that appear to be attractive. But that's not all the girls do, they are witty and enjoy a conversation with someone who doesn't just objectify them. I often end up chatting to shooter girls but also supporting them by buying whatever they are selling. Is this wrong? Who are we to judge the fact that just because  these shooter girls are attractive they able to sell more shooters. This is something that absolutely benefits them and they have no issue with

 

 

So once again the fact that certain NPC are attractive or sexualised is not the only reason I Romance them, so I wouldn't have chosen Isabella to be in my party if she wasn't as effective in combat. I hope this clears this up

[Hiro Protagonist II]

When you first see Isabella she is not wearing a Bikini. She is wearing a totally normal but sexy revealing outfit. Nothing else. Yes she shows her cleavage but again there is nothing wrong with that. She is a rogue like character and she knows how she can use her body to her advantage. She is using this outfit to get mans attention and then steals from them. Basically she is using men as objects to get money out of them. 

 

Also since this is an RPG you know exactly what kind of character or class Isabella is as well.  

 

I've never played DA 2 and never finished DA:O so no I don't know anything about her. So anything you're saying about her I have no knowledge of.

[BruceVC]

 

 

There are many types of feminists out there.  For example pro sex and anti sex Feminists.  There is nothing wrong with choosing a person because of their appearance. That is the first thing you see in the real world as well.  The first thing you see is their appearance.  This is how we humans work and you can nothing do about it.  

 

So the first thing you see in the real world is women in bikinis walking around the city? Where is that city because I want to get on the next plane and fly there.

 

When you first see Isabella she is not wearing a Bikini. She is wearing a totally normal but sexy revealing outfit. Nothing else. Yes she shows her cleavage but again there is nothing wrong with that. She is a rogue like character and she knows how she can use her body to her advantage. She is using this outfit to get mans attention and then steals from them. Basically she is using men as objects to get money out of them. 

 

Also since this is an RPG you know exactly what kind of character or class Isabella is as well.  

 

 

I agree, for me there was also much more to Isabella than just her looks. She had an interesting history and personality

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I agree, for me there was also much more to Isabella than just her looks. She had an interesting history and personality

 

And looks is always the first thing you need as you've stated before.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

You are absolutely correct, you can have attractive qualities without them being sexualised in a game. But I am not a developer, I don't create the Romance options. I merely base my interaction with my party members on what is available from a NPC perspective. And as others have mentioned the consideration of sexualisation is a fact in marketing of most products  and a reality of life. We can't and won't be able to change this.

 

Let me give you an example, I go to bars regularly with friends probably every second week. At these bars they have shooters girls who come you table and sell you shooters. These girls are all attractive ladies, there are no overweight or unattractive ladies who do this. Now you can see this as a negative and say " this is wrong, this is clearly selling shooters  by demonstrating the sexualisation of the shooter girls and manipulating men to buy shooter because the girls are hot". But the companies that own these services will tell you that the reality is customers generally only buy shooters from girls that appear to be attractive. But that's not all the girls do, they are witty and enjoy a conversation with someone who doesn't just objectify them. I often end up chatting to shooter girls but also supporting them by buying whatever they are selling. Is this wrong? Who are we to judge the fact that just because  these shooter girls are attractive they able to sell more shooters. This is something that absolutely benefits them and they have no issue with

 

 

So once again the fact that certain NPC are attractive or sexualised is not the only reason I Romance them, so I wouldn't have chosen Isabella to be in my party if she wasn't as effective in combat. I hope this clears this up

 

 

Worst cop out I've ever heard, especially from a feminist. Well we can't change anything, so let's just go with the flow.

[Darji]

 

I agree, for me there was also much more to Isabella than just her looks. She had an interesting history and personality

 

And looks is always the first thing you need as you've stated before.

 

Really?...  Ok let us say you are out on the street and you see a woman or man you are interested in. The first thing that makes you take notice of is her looks and appearance.  If that would not interest her you would not even talk to her. Or do you talk to every man or woman in the hope of having an interesting character on the outside? This is getting kind of stupid....

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Really?...  Ok let us say you are out on the street and you see a woman or man you are interested in. The first thing that makes you take notice of is her looks and appearance.  If that would not interest her you would not even talk to her. Or do you talk to every man or woman in the hope of having an interesting character on the outside? This is getting kind of stupid....

 

Pretty much all women I meet don't wear skimpy outfits and have their cleavage sticking out at me. Are you suggesting that's what happens in real life?

[Darji]

 

Really?...  Ok let us say you are out on the street and you see a woman or man you are interested in. The first thing that makes you take notice of is her looks and appearance.  If that would not interest her you would not even talk to her. Or do you talk to every man or woman in the hope of having an interesting character on the outside? This is getting kind of stupid....

 

Pretty much all women I meet don't wear skimpy outfits and have their cleavage sticking out at me. Are you suggesting that's what happens in real life?

 

 

This is Isabella

 

 

On many parties or clubs this is nothing compared to what women are wearing.

[Lephys]

When you first see Isabella she is not wearing a Bikini. She is wearing a totally normal but sexy revealing outfit. Nothing else. Yes she shows her cleavage but again there is nothing wrong with that. She is a rogue like character and she knows how she can use her body to her advantage. She is using this outfit to get mans attention and then steals from them. Basically she is using men as objects to get money out of them.

See, Darji... clearly, no woman in real life shows that much cleavage unless some Divine Developer has forcibly sexualized her into doing so, so that all the people playing Life can objectify her.

 

/sarcasm.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

This is Isabella

 

On many parties or clubs this is nothing compared to what women are wearing.

 

So you're taking the parties and clubs with skimpy dressed females as the standard of how women dress in all settings of real life and how they should be portrayed in all settings of video games? You ignore every other possible occasion where you meet females who aren't dressed with skimpy clothes but are still very attractive? Okay. 

[ManifestedISO]

Why is it so hard to spell a woman's name correctly. Maybe if you showed Isabela some polite respect, she would be less of an object. I believe Stun already pointed this out long ago. 

[BruceVC]

Why is it so hard to spell a woman's name correctly. Maybe if you showed Isabela some polite respect, she would be less of an object. I believe Stun already pointed this out long ago. 

 

Look at you, jumping into the conversation and reminding us we aren't spelling her name properly

 

But you right you do spell her name Isabela, my bad

[Darji]

 

 

This is Isabella

 

On many parties or clubs this is nothing compared to what women are wearing.

 

So you're taking the parties and clubs with skimpy dressed females as the standard of how women dress in all settings of real life and how they should be portrayed in all settings of video games? You ignore every other possible occasion where you meet females who aren't dressed with skimpy clothes but are still very attractive? Okay. 

 

In Summer in Germany even at my university i see more revealing outfits. Were do you life? Dubai? Iran? Also we met her at a TAVERN. A bar a club in todays language.  We do not meet her on the fields or at some marketplace selling groceries... Also I love how you try to judge people by what they are wearing. Who here is the sexist?...  If its her personality who are you to tell that this is wrong? This is how the character was written. If it were a shy and socially awkward character and then wears something like that. Than yeah you can totally argue that it is wrong. But with a personality liker her? Not really. A video game character does not represent the whole women in the whole world. It represents one character. 

 

As for the Name. I always think of her as a Spanish name and then it should be Isabella since I never saw the name Isabela in spanish XD

Edited July 24, 2014 by Darji

[PrimeJunta]

Really?... Ok let us say you are out on the street and you see a woman or man you are interested in. The first thing that makes you take notice of is her looks and appearance. If that would not interest her you would not even talk to her. Or do you talk to every man or woman in the hope of having an interesting character on the outside? This is getting kind of stupid....

Darji, word of advice. Hitting on women you see in the street (a) doesn't work and (b) is rude, and many if not most women consider it harassment. Don't do it. If you have any kind of social life, you'll get the chance to talk to lots of women in all kinds of contexts. You'll find out pretty quickly if you hit it off.

 

And, as I said earlier, IME appearance is only a fairly small component of that chemistry. Fixating on it, however, is a great way to close yourself off to people.

Edited July 24, 2014 by PrimeJunta

[Hiro Protagonist II]

In Summer in Germany even at my university i see more revealing outfits. Were do you life? Dubai? Iran? Also we met her at a TAVERN. A bar a club in todays language.  We do not meet her on the fields or at some marketplace selling groceries... Also I love how you try to judge people by what they are wearing. Who here is the sexist?...  If its her personality who are you to tell that this is wrong?

 

As for the Name. I always think of her as a Spanish name and then it should be Isabella since I never saw the name Isabela in spanish XD

 

LMAO.

 

Here's a clue if you didn't realise already and I'm pretty sure it's gone way over your head. I'm not a feminist and I said I wasn't taking a feminist stand. I already said I was pointing out the feminist stand to Bruce who admits he is a feminist.

 

Get it now?

[Darji]

 

Really?... Ok let us say you are out on the street and you see a woman or man you are interested in. The first thing that makes you take notice of is her looks and appearance. If that would not interest her you would not even talk to her. Or do you talk to every man or woman in the hope of having an interesting character on the outside? This is getting kind of stupid....

Darji, word of advice. Hitting on women you see in the street (a) doesn't work and (b) is rude, and many if not most women consider it harassment. Don't do it. If you have any kind of social life, you'll get the chance to talk to lots of women in all kinds of contexts. You'll find out pretty quickly if you hit it off.

 

And, as I said earlier, IME appearance is only a fairly small component of that chemistry. Fixating on it, however, is a great way to close yourself off to people.

 

First of all I am not hitting on anyone on the streets. Secondly going to someone and try to start a conversation is not rude. It would be rude if you would say:  "Hey Babe you look awesome lets have sex" If you just go and say hello and start a conversation it is not rude at all.  Third people are getting attracted to each other the first moment you see them. This is a scientific fact.  If you are not interested in a person or can sympathize with her you will most likely not talk to her/him at all.