Attribute gains

[Namutree]

I liked in IWD2 that you could get an attribute bonus every four levels. I hope something like that comes to poe. The stagnant attributes in Bg were regrettable.

[Leferd]

I'm not sure if we have any verified official information on this. If implemented, I would much a prefer a conservative progression of maybe 1pt every 4 or 5 levels.

[Namutree]

I'm not sure if we have any verified official information on this. If implemented, I would much a prefer a conservative progression of maybe 1pt every 4 or 5 levels.

Yeah, that is what I had in mind. It makes that 4th/5th level seem special. Also, the value of one attribute point in poe is probably less than in AD&D.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I think it would make sense if it was every 3 or 4 levels. The level cap is 12 so you could fit 3 or 4 points by the end of the level cap. Not sure if every three levels is too much. But it would be good to have another point by level 12.

[Namutree]

I think it would make sense if it was every 3 or 4 levels. The level cap is 12 so you could fit 3 or 4 points by the end of the level cap. Not sure if every three levels is too much. But it would be good to have another point by level 12.

Whether or not three level is too much largely depends on how important a single attribute point is. For example, if 30 points in any given attribute were normal; 1 point per 3 levels would hardly even make a difference.

[Leferd]

Every four levels sounds about right. This is assuming that each attribute point actually has a measurably impact on the character.

[Quetzalcoatl]

I was kinda hoping for no attribute points beyond character creation. I've always liked it that way. 

[Leferd]

I was kinda hoping for no attribute points beyond character creation. I've always liked it that way.

 

I don't get that. People get stronger, faster, sturdier, and wiser everyday. Comes with practice, repetition, and experience. On the opposite, you can also lose them through atrophy. Adventuring should at the least, make a person tougher.

[Gromnir]

I'm not sure if we have any verified official information on this. If implemented, I would much a prefer a conservative progression of maybe 1pt every 4 or 5 levels.

you know, that is what cheeses us off 'bout poe development. we saw interview where we got developers saying that 'cause this is kickstarter, the fans know everything 'cept story. not true. we don't know genuine how combat works and we ain't seen character generation and leveling.  we don't know functional advantages o' different races. sure, we has been told the special powers o' each class, but guess what, if you tell us that d&d rogues get uncanny dodge and backstab and more skill points without giving context o' d20 system, such stuff is largely meaningless.  this game is near to being released as beta (a kinda faux beta if obsidian is serious 'bout a 2014 release) and we still don't know how poe works.

 

...

 

is not so much that we don't know how poe mechanics will function so much as is bothersome when developers pretend like we know everything. guess what, we don't. am still guessing if we get attributes boost or how all those derived stats is generated on the one freaking screenie o' a character sheet we has seen. for a game we know everything about but story, we is feeling left much in the dark 'bout how poe actual plays.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Leferd]

 

I'm not sure if we have any verified official information on this. If implemented, I would much a prefer a conservative progression of maybe 1pt every 4 or 5 levels.

 

you know, that is what cheeses us off 'bout poe development. we saw interview where we got developers saying that 'cause this is kickstarter, the fans know everything 'cept story. not true. we don't know genuine how combat works and we ain't seen character generation and leveling.  we don't know functional advantages o' different races. sure, we has been told the special powers o' each class, but guess what, if you tell us that d&d rogues get uncanny dodge and backstab and more skill points without giving context o' d20 system, such stuff is largely meaningless.  this game is near to being released as beta (a kinda faux beta if obsidian is serious 'bout a 2014 release) and we still don't know how poe works.

 

...

 

is not so much that we don't know how poe mechanics will function so much as is bothersome when developers pretend like we know everything. guess what, we don't. am still guessing if we get attributes boost or how all those derived stats is generated on the one freaking screenie o' a character sheet we has seen. for a game we know everything about but story, we is feeling left much in the dark 'bout how poe actual plays.

 

HA! Good Fun!

This is true. Since we know that Obsidian purportedly reads most of these threads, maybe we can get an answer on this particular point from Josh, Adam, or Brandon et al - if even only for the "still under revision/subject to balancing" reply.

[Namutree]

I was kinda hoping for no attribute points beyond character creation. I've always liked it that way.

Care to elaborate why? I am genuinely curious.

[Gromnir]

 

I was kinda hoping for no attribute points beyond character creation. I've always liked it that way.

Care to elaborate why? I am genuinely curious.

 

if you do not gain attributes past character generation, each o' those points is all the more precious. if you will never get more points, you needs be more careful in spending. in theory this should lead to more balanced characters being built, but it typical works out the opposite way with extreme min/max. there is also the issue with some systems (particularly class-based systems) where a character will eventually have one or two stats improved to relative superhero levels through ability inflation. hypothetical: a rhino has a str o' 20. the absolute best strength a starting human character may have is 18. ok, so maybe the rhino is a bit weak, but is not so outrageous that it makes folks fall over laughing. the thing is, by level 20, our human is likely to have a strength that far surpasses the rhino, and that ain't even talking 'bout magical boosting.  as is a Fantasy Game, such stuff doesn't actual bother us, but the aforementioned is  typical answers given for avoiding inflation o' abilities... and such notions does have merit.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited July 3, 2014 by Gromnir

[ManifestedISO]

Level 12 cap, I don't remember reading that.

[Namutree]

 

 

I was kinda hoping for no attribute points beyond character creation. I've always liked it that way.

Care to elaborate why? I am genuinely curious.

 

if you do not gain attributes past character generation, each o' those points is all the more precious. if you will never get more points, you needs be more careful in spending. in theory this should lead to more balanced characters being built, but it typical works out the opposite way with extreme min/max. there is also the issue with some systems (particularly class-based systems) where a character will eventually have one or two stats improved to relative superhero levels through ability inflation. hypothetical: a rhino has a str o' 20. the absolute best strength a starting human character may have is 18. ok, so maybe the rhino is a bit weak, but is not so outrageous that it makes folks fall over laughing. the thing is, by level 20, our human is likely to have a strength that far surpasses the rhino, and that ain't even talking 'bout magical boosting.  as is a Fantasy Game, such stuff doesn't actual bother us, but the aforementioned is  typical answers given for avoiding inflation o' abilities... and such notions does have merit.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

I see. I still want to improve my attributes, but I can understand that position. There are ways to avoid the situation of some one having an obscenely high attribute from exclusively raising it.

 

Make it so raising lower stats is more helpful than raising higher stats. After all, in poe all attributes are useful to everybody.

 

Another solution is put a limit on how often a specific attribute can be increased, for example:

My fighter increased STR at level 4, so on level 8 STR is not available. So instead I raise INT since it helps improve my abilities. Then at level 12, INT cannot be chosen because I raised it last time. STR however, is now available again. That could work.

[Gromnir]

personally, we do not mind attribute point boosting after the initial character generation. poe is a game, so for us we is thinking that giving players adequate customization leveling rewards is more important than any concerns we can imagine. there should be real rewards at every level, and player should also be having customization options 'pon leveling... or so we believe. poe appears to have fewer skills than a game such as wasteland 2, so opportunities to improve via skills will be similarly limited.  but again, we don't specific know what is the other leveling rewards. distributing ability points is one way for Gromnir to feel as if we is building Our character to suit Our needs. am guessing there will be other ways to improve and customize, but that is based mostly on conjecture 'cause obsidian ain't telling us specifics. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited July 3, 2014 by Gromnir

[Namutree]

personally, we do not mind attribute point boosting after the initial character generation. poe is a game, so for us we is thinking that giving players adequate customization leveling rewards is more important than any concerns we can imagine. there should be real rewards at every level, and player should also be having customization options 'pon leveling... or so we believe. poe appears to have fewer skills than a game such as wasteland 2, so opportunities to improve via skills will be similarly limited.  but again, we don't specific know what is the other leveling rewards. distributing ability points is one way for Gromnir to feel as if we is building Our character to suit Our needs. am guessing there will be other ways to improve and customize, but that is based mostly on conjecture 'cause obsidian ain't telling us specifics. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Gromnir, I approve of the way you type. "Tis most amusing.

[Leferd]

Level 12 cap, I don't remember reading that.

Don't remember when or where but Josh mentioned it.

[Leferd]

 

personally, we do not mind attribute point boosting after the initial character generation. poe is a game, so for us we is thinking that giving players adequate customization leveling rewards is more important than any concerns we can imagine. there should be real rewards at every level, and player should also be having customization options 'pon leveling... or so we believe. poe appears to have fewer skills than a game such as wasteland 2, so opportunities to improve via skills will be similarly limited. but again, we don't specific know what is the other leveling rewards. distributing ability points is one way for Gromnir to feel as if we is building Our character to suit Our needs. am guessing there will be other ways to improve and customize, but that is based mostly on conjecture 'cause obsidian ain't telling us specifics.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Gromnir, I approve of the way you type. "Tis most amusing.

Ha! That's rare. Edited July 3, 2014 by Leferd

[Sensuki]

You will be able to raise your attributes, just not often. No specific number has been quoted but yeah I wouldn't expect anything lower than every 4 or 5 levels (more likely 5).

[Leferd]

You will be able to raise your attributes, just not often. No specific number has been quoted but yeah I wouldn't expect anything lower than every 4 or 5 levels (more likely 5).

Good to know. Been following the game diligently but didn't remember this particular tidbit.

[curryinahurry]

An Update focusing on character building (creation and levelling) would be a nice thing at this point.  We have a lot of information about the classes at this point, but I am interested in what will be baked in and what will be elective (talents).  With regards to attributes, I think we are all assuming point buy, but PoE system is all bonus oriented (no negative stats in attributes), so what is a starting point?  

 

Adding points to attributes is going to be a bit odd in this system considering that bonuses aren't uniform.  One point of intelligence adds 5% to AoE & duration of buffs, while 1 point of Might adds 2% damage.  Not sure how that will work.

[Silent Winter]

 

You will be able to raise your attributes, just not often. No specific number has been quoted but yeah I wouldn't expect anything lower than every 4 or 5 levels (more likely 5).

Good to know. Been following the game diligently but didn't remember this particular tidbit.

 

Josh mentioned it in a thread some time ago but I don't think we have anything more specific than 'rare'

 

I honestly liked the BG way - mostly static but finding tomes could raise it.  3rd ed. had the point raise every few levels and that was ok too but it mostly meant just raising your key-stat and ignoring the others.  In PoE, with more stats being useful for each build, we'd have to see if it's better to raise one stat or balance it out (or whether both would be good but different options).

[Hiro Protagonist II]

 

I honestly liked the BG way - mostly static but finding tomes could raise it.  3rd ed. had the point raise every few levels and that was ok too but it mostly meant just raising your key-stat and ignoring the others.  In PoE, with more stats being useful for each build, we'd have to see if it's better to raise one stat or balance it out (or whether both would be good but different options).

 

4th edition has you raising 2 stats every four levels and all you ever did was raise your two primary stats and ignoring the rest, or at least putting the bare minimum in the others. Min-max ftw!

[Gromnir]

am honestly not knowing how important abilities is compared to skills and... whatever else is the per-level customization options.  is actual kinda bizarre how little we specific know given the late date. you can make a system in which skills is extreme important and abilities ain't. hell, you can craft a system that has abilities and skills and neither is particular important. if abilities raise is "rare," am gonna guess that abilities is important, otherwise there ain't much reason to limit the pool o' ability points. even so, that is only a guess based on an assumption o' developer rationality.

 

...

 

*shrug*

 

is so little to say 'cause is so little we know.

 

"Gromnir, I approve of the way you type. "Tis most amusing."

 

an innocuous seeming admission that will make you few friends.  the three folks who share your amusement meet every other leap year, in secret. we will send you details o' the 2020 meeting if you so desire.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Namutree]

 

 

You will be able to raise your attributes, just not often. No specific number has been quoted but yeah I wouldn't expect anything lower than every 4 or 5 levels (more likely 5).

Good to know. Been following the game diligently but didn't remember this particular tidbit.

 

Josh mentioned it in a thread some time ago but I don't think we have anything more specific than 'rare'

 

I honestly liked the BG way - mostly static but finding tomes could raise it.  3rd ed. had the point raise every few levels and that was ok too but it mostly meant just raising your key-stat and ignoring the others.  In PoE, with more stats being useful for each build, we'd have to see if it's better to raise one stat or balance it out (or whether both would be good but different options).

 

Both options being good in their own way would cool; I think raising at least two attributes ought to be optimal by a small amount though. Raising only the primary attribute seems too simple.