Statistics of Weapons -- what should they model?

[general_azure]

 

 

When you add a spike, you aren't really doing blunt damage anymore, but piercing...or should I say, you're doing primarily piercing, since blunt is a constant companion.

 

And all that mass at the tip of maces/hammers and such also makes them more sluggish and difficult to recover.

 

 

True, concentrating the weight of your weapon at the tip makes them rather unbalanced. Such specialized equipment gotta have drawbacks after all.

 

And I really think this labeling into slash/pierce/blunt is rather misleading outside of highly abstracted gameplay mechanics.... you can pierce both with a stabbing weapon like a dagger or the pointy spike on your polearm, yet it's a totally different kind of attack. And when exactly would slash (cutting would be a better name imho) and pierce turn into blunt? When the target's armor does not rupture? The distinction is rather fluid, I guess.

[Diagoras]

 

it doesn't directly state that plate is harder to make, but it does hint at it.  if you think about it with mail, you are forging links, which are then assembled and riveted (most likely) into a shape, thus you don't need experienced armorers except to make the links.  with plate, you need to make several form fitting sheets of metal, which is not as simple as just making the same link over and over (oversimplification of forging components for mail).

 

The point is, if you need to make 10,000 suits of chain you need to massively scale people capable of forging the links. If you need to make 10,000 breastplates, you mainly need to scale the amount of steel you're using,  the facilities you need, and the hammerers - but that is capital and unskilled labor. The actual skilled labor scales much slower.

 

 

well for just the medieval period, and europe itself does narrow it considerably, though any knight sought out and fought other knights, and did in fact operate in small units when needed.

 

Really? While cavalry did engage each other on the flanks (to establish enough superiority to then engage in flank attacks on infantry units), I didn't know that knights sought each other out on the battlefield. I always assumed that was a Hollywood invention.

 

 

pretty much weapons that needed room to use was mainly a small unit weapon.  a formation of pikes was very different than a group of men with 2 handed swords.  with pikes you could have men beside you and behind you helping out, but with great swords people to the side of you would limit your ability to swing and fight, and those behind you could really help out.

 

My understanding of the use of the zweihander was they were explicitly meant to be used in and against pike formations. When a push-of-pike erupted, the zweihanders were sent in on the flanks to cut into the opposing pike formation and destroy its cohesion so that your pikemen could overcome the enemy's.

[jamoecw]

 

The point is, if you need to make 10,000 suits of chain you need to massively scale people capable of forging the links. If you need to make 10,000 breastplates, you mainly need to scale the amount of steel you're using,  the facilities you need, and the hammerers - but that is capital and unskilled labor. The actual skilled labor scales much slower.

 

The point is, if you need to make 10,000 suits of chain you need to massively scale people capable of forging the links. If you need to make 10,000 breastplates, you mainly need to scale the amount of steel you're using,  the facilities you need, and the hammerers - but that is capital and unskilled labor. The actual skilled labor scales much slower

notice that with the plate that there are lots of little impressions where he hit the armor, now think about the times each chain was hit and how much area they take up, at the very least the time needed to rivet a shirt of chain would be the same needed to shape the same amount of area, which doesn't take into account riveting pieces together or attaching straps and such, not to mention that the pieces overlap.  the reason i say that the plate requires skilled labor over the chain is that riveting chain together is the same for every link, while with plate each hit is slightly different from the last in order to get the right shape.  i have heard the argument that wire was harder to make than sheets for making armor, but germany had made a machine for making wire, and that wire wasn't uncommon.

http://www.dargonzine.org/dpww/docs/blacksmithy_whitepaper.pdf

 

 

Really? While cavalry did engage each other on the flanks (to establish enough superiority to then engage in flank attacks on infantry units), I didn't know that knights sought each other out on the battlefield. I always assumed that was a Hollywood invention.

http://www.knightsandarmor.com/life.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tournament_(medieval)

taking knights captive was a profitable thing to do, and as such was sought out during battle.  such important tasks were not left up to the peasant forces in an early medieval army, as they wouldn't know a knight from a master at arms.

 

 

My understanding of the use of the zweihander was they were explicitly meant to be used in and against pike formations. When a push-of-pike erupted, the zweihanders were sent in on the flanks to cut into the opposing pike formation and destroy its cohesion so that your pikemen could overcome the enemy's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landsknecht

the swiss had determined the weapon not suitable for use with pike formations, as it needed too much room.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pier_Gerlofs_Donia

medieval great swords are known to cleave through people when fighting, and thus were favored for when fighting multiple opponents, just like their celtic counterparts.

 

alexander the great used pike formations just like later medieval armies.  greeks and chinese were famous for their crossbows.  roman, persian, and chinese cavalry used long swords to a large extent. these are iconic medieval weapons, which had counterparts in other eras/regions.  these other eras and regions had a more defined use for small units, and weapons were developed for them.  bows, crossbows, pole weapons, and short thrusting weapons are typically the choice weapons for tight formations throughout history.

[TrashMan]

I'd like to point out that plate armor has to be custom-made and fitted.

 

Quality plate DEFINATELY requires more skilled labor.

[Sedrefilos]

The weapons info screen should have the following information, imho:

 

Size: the exact length of the weapon in mm and weight in mgr.

 

Materials: each of the materials that is made of.

 

Creation procedure: all the steps that were taken to make the item.

 

Creator name: the name of it's craftsman.

 

Historical background: the fictional historical background of the weapon type and (if it is a magical weapon) the background of the exact weapon.

 

How to use: how can one use this weapon. How to hold it, swing it etc

 

All other info is minor. They can add whatever else they can think about, but I stongly believe the above should be the core info.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Sedrefilos