Design Challenge: "New Game+" or "True Route"

[Cryticus]

@Razsius

 

Drakengard kinda did what you were saying and that was what I was referencing with Gigant babies, I underestand what do you mean but I still find it a bad idea from financial point of view, and writing point of view, In order to make such big new game plus that changes so many things and isn't just form of character transfer, Obsidian would need money ,and that money would come from the main game , basicly it goes down to do you want a short story, plus possibility of having it replayed as sort of 1/2 new story or do you want a one long story, and I prefer second option, to this.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Cryticus

[moridin84]

There is a Japanese "visual novel" called Fate/Stay Night. The story is essentially about the main character getting involved in a 7 person battle royal for a prize. This game has three routes, you unlock the second route by completing the first and the third by completing the second. Participants who gets knocked off early in one route would survive much longer in another, this resulted in each route being dramatically different. 

 

I believe that is the concept behind NewGame+ system that the original poster was suggesting.

 

Personally I don't think it "fits" within a player driven RPG. In an RPG the differences between one playthrough and another are determined by the players actions. Creating a single world which is dramatically affected by player choices would be simpler than creating an alternative "NewGame+" world.

 

It would be interesting to see something like this in an RPG but I think it would be really dangerous to do, plus it doesn't fit with the "old school RPG" mentality that this game is being designed with. If we ever see an RPG like this it would probably be in an indie game. 

[Fearabbit]

Razsius, I really like your story ideas so far. The one about an archeological expedition down the Endless Paths was great and this idea is pretty cool as well - making defeat something you can live with because it still serves your soul in its next life.

 

I generally really like that, but I agree with moridin84, that would work a lot better in a small indie game. You know, one of those games that heavily rely on one creative feature, like Braid or Fez. Here it would be the reincarnation of your soul in a different character, seeing the world through these new eyes, and maybe failing again. P:E, on the other hand, should focus on having a good and satisfying story, instead of having two. Not to mention that implementing all the changes you suggested for the second playthrough would be a scripting nightmare.

 

Other than that, getting to feel like there's a lot going on that you have no clue about would be an awesome change of pace. I would also appreciate it if the motivations of my main enemy weren't spoonfed to me. Just imagine a story where part of your journey is finding out what kind of enemy you're fighting against - maybe even with the possibility of collecting completely wrong information.

[AGX-17]

New game + modes are only really valid when you have multiple endings. The earliest instance I know of it is in Chrono Trigger, where the purpose was to allow you to find and achieve a plethora of new endings without the tedium of regular combat/levelling and to defeat enemies who would have been undefeatable in normal play.

 

Honestly, I'd like to see a game (any game, not necessarily P:E,) where a New Game + type mode allows the player character to retain all memory and knowledge of the first playthrough, allowing them to dramatically alter events and discover/"create" an entire new storyline by altering or averting key events, as well as affecting interaction with NPCs and companions. Kind of Groundhog Day-ish, but without repeating the same day over and over until you get it "right" and become a better person, etc.

Edited January 19, 2013 by AGX-17

[Razsius]

Hmm well im not sure. I think i understand what you mean right now but i think i would rather have them focus on the main story making it have more cause and effect and overall higher quality.

 

If they make it in a good way then the story will explain itself by lore, npc information and simply just looking at the world.

 

That's very single layer though.  I will admit it's something I, as well as plenty of others, are very used to in our story telling.  Rarely are stories happening concurrently and it's even rarer that we don't fundamentally understand every character in the story (usually because we take their perspective at some point).  It's even somewhat rare to have good foreshadowing.  The problem is when you run into a story that is effectively one that is multi-layered you quickly realize it's much better because it resembles the very world we live in.

 

I've studied quite a bit about the Crusaders as research for something i've wanted to do for a very, very long time.  Within the "dusty old historical texts" i've had to peruse I stumbled across many interesting things that I had never known before but one of them stood out to me.  The creation of the indulgence which would later be implemented for centuries after... started here during the Crusaders.  It altered how church was viewed for much of it's existence on the planet, it created false hope for so many people, it created oppression and stifled growth and it was the one act that would eventually spur internal rebellion within the church and forever change history.  Yet, you would never simply guess the reason why it was brought about.  The answer would shock you.

 

Our world is horribly complex and if PE had a little more of that I certainly wouldn't complain.

 

 

@Razsius

 

Drakengard kinda did what you were saying and that was what I was referencing with Gigant babies, I underestand what do you mean but I still find it a bad idea from financial point of view, and writing point of view, In order to make such big new game plus that changes so many things and isn't just form of character transfer, Obsidian would need money ,and that money would come from the main game , basicly it goes down to do you want a short story, plus possibility of having it replayed as sort of 1/2 new story or do you want a one long story, and I prefer second option, to this.

 

You certainly have a point about money.  Obsidian only has so much of it which is why I left my "Yes" option as more of a "if they could fit it in" option.

 

 

There is a Japanese "visual novel" called Fate/Stay Night. The story is essentially about the main character getting involved in a 7 person battle royal for a prize. This game has three routes, you unlock the second route by completing the first and the third by completing the second. Participants who gets knocked off early in one route would survive much longer in another, this resulted in each route being dramatically different. 

 

I believe that is the concept behind NewGame+ system that the original poster was suggesting.

 

Personally I don't think it "fits" within a player driven RPG. In an RPG the differences between one playthrough and another are determined by the players actions. Creating a single world which is dramatically affected by player choices would be simpler than creating an alternative "NewGame+" world.

 

It would be interesting to see something like this in an RPG but I think it would be really dangerous to do, plus it doesn't fit with the "old school RPG" mentality that this game is being designed with. If we ever see an RPG like this it would probably be in an indie game. 

 

You've kind of got the general idea with the Fate/Stay Night reference.  There would be "carry over" of your character though.  It'd be like if Unlimited Blade Works was basically "Heavens Feel Part 1".  Probably the best thing about the routes was that as you got to each subsequent route you learned more of the back story to the Fate/Stay world.  Heavens Feel felt the most complete by far of all 3 of the routes.

 

You make some good points at the same time though Obsidian pretty much has full control of their game without any publisher intervention.  Might be the time to try a few new things.  It doesn't have to be my idea though.

 

@Fearabbit

 

Razsius, I really like your story ideas so far. The one about an archeological expedition down the Endless Paths was great and this idea is pretty cool as well - making defeat something you can live with because it still serves your soul in its next life.

 

Thanks, it's nice to know people actually notice this stuff.  There's actually quite a bit more to that archeological expedition btw.  At times though it does feel like I could be spending my time somewhat fruitlessly *kicks xp pool idea off a nearby 50 floor building*.

 

.../sigh

 

Other than that, getting to feel like there's a lot going on that you have no clue about would be an awesome change of pace. I would also appreciate it if the motivations of my main enemy weren't spoonfed to me. Just imagine a story where part of your journey is finding out what kind of enemy you're fighting against - maybe even with the possibility of collecting completely wrong information.

 

For every good world built lies a story that is unsaid.  The best worlds with "history" use that to their advantage.  A masterpiece world is one that lets you in on it's secrets... and blows your mind in the process.  I love great storytelling I really do.  Once you taste a masterpiece you always want something a little more.  It's like a drug and it never goes away.  The only thing i'm really wondering right now is... can the developers of Obsidian Entertainment build a masterpiece?