Attacking while prone or crouched: How about at least letting us fire ranged weapons?

[Infinitron]

In the latest Reddit Q&A, Tim Cain says:

 

while we will support prone positions, you won't be able to attack while prone because the animations involved are too different from attacks while standing that we would have to make every animation twice, once for standing and once for prone.

 

Seems like this is mainly a problem with melee attacks, since they require complex animations for actual physical contact between different character models.

 

It doesn't sound like it would be too complex to let us fire bows and guns while prone/crouched, since the animations for that should be completely autonomous.

 

Plus, firing while prone/crouched could grant the character a sharpshooting attack bonus, or something like that.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Infinitron

[Gorgon]

More animation sets is not a bad thing. Of course I have no idea what they cost to produce.

[Shadenuat]

You can't fire bow when prone, it's retarded.

 

Gun... maybe. Crossbow too, if it's loaded.

 

Is't the whole point of that status is to leave opponent without actions anyway?

Edited October 6, 2012 by Shadenuat

[Infinitron]

I figure if they're going to implement stances, we might as well have full use of them.

 

To be honest, slashing somebody with a sword while prone never made sense anyway, so I'm not sure why Tim even had to bring it up.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Infinitron

[diablo169]

You should be able to shoot while crouched no questions asked. otherwise it seems utterly pointless to even put it in.

[Enoch]

You should be able to shoot while crouched no questions asked. otherwise it seems utterly pointless to even put it in.

 

Keep in mind that we ain't talking about 19th-Century breach-loading rifles here. A character could credibly get one shot off in prone position... and then they'd have to reload their weapon somehow. I don't see how one would reload a wheel-lock firearm or any but the smallest of crossbows while lying on the ground.

 

Also, the direction that a character could fire would have to be limited by the direction they faced when they laid down.

 

Altogether, that would make this enough of a "very rare special case" ability that I can understand it being a very low priority for Obsidz to put in the game. I'm guessing that "prone" is in the game because they want to support knockdown effects, rather than because they envision anybody using it deliberately.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Enoch

[diablo169]

I said crouched not prone (as in on one knee), i'm not expecting to fire medival ranged weapons while lying flat on the ground. Kneeling while drawing back a bow is perfectly acceptable though.

[Infinitron]

I'm guessing that "prone" is in the game because they want to support knockdown effects, rather than because they envision anybody using it deliberately.

 

Yes, if that's the case then I agree with you that this mechanic would be out of place.

 

I wonder if an Obsidian developer could weigh in on this...?

Edited October 6, 2012 by Infinitron

[Shevek]

Enoch is most likely right. Prone probably just means you have been knocked to the ground.

[Hypevosa]

Prone is likely in to support knocking foes down and getting knocked down yourself rather than allowing attacks. Chances are your character will always get up on their own - the only reason in D&D getting up could be a problem and that you may want to attack while prone was because getting up ilicited an attack of opportunity from your opponent since you are vulnerable. I doubt they'll have AOOs here, you'll just lose your attack for that round instead.

[Rabain]

I'd agree with Hypevosa, I think prone is only in the game as a representation of your character on the ground but not dead or asleep. While it might be that in real life you could shoot a gun while prone, that might only apply in certain circumstances for example you have a gun ready to fire when knocked down. Most other times you will be trying to get back up as your opponent comes towards you instead of staying down in order to shoot.

 

Otherwise prone is just fine as an animation of your character on the ground.

[villain of the story]

But why would Tim Cain specifically mention prone position in the first place with regard to attacks, knock downs don't exactly count as a "position" but more like a result. I hopefully thought about stealth opportunities, covering from ranged attacks and crawling through spaces otherwise inaccessible.

 

As for rifles, it is a must. They could add penalty to reload while prone but the ability to shoot while crouched or prone is a tactical no-brainer.

 

As for melee weapons while prone, I liked this from the Kickstarter comments:

 

What would "a prone attack" be anyway? Maybe pulling an unaware NPC on the ankles from behind on the ground stab him on the ground while knocked down?

 

I said crouched not prone (as in on one knee), i'm not expecting to fire medival ranged weapons while lying flat on the ground. Kneeling while drawing back a bow is perfectly acceptable though.

 

Though it's not an optimal stance to use a bow. Bows are best used standing for best draw strength and accuracy. But it would be cool if, for instance, you could shoot arrows while sneaking crouched with a reasonable amount of accuracy penalty.

Edited October 6, 2012 by villain of the story

[Hypevosa]

But why would Tim Cain specifically mention prone position in the first place with regard to attacks, knock downs don't exactly count as a "position" but more like a result. I hopefully thought about stealth opportunities, covering from ranged attacks and crawling through spaces otherwise inaccessible.

 

As for rifles, it is a must. They could add penalty to reload while prone but the ability to shoot while crouched or prone is a tactical no-brainer.

 

As for melee weapons while prone, I liked this from the Kickstarter comments:

 

What would "a prone attack" be anyway? Maybe pulling an unaware NPC on the ankles from behind on the ground stab him on the ground while knocked down?

 

I said crouched not prone (as in on one knee), i'm not expecting to fire medival ranged weapons while lying flat on the ground. Kneeling while drawing back a bow is perfectly acceptable though.

 

Though it's not an optimal stance to use a bow. Bows are best used standing for best draw strength and accuracy. But it would be cool if, for instance, you could shoot arrows while sneaking crouched with a reasonable amount of accuracy penalty.

 

Actually, having actually practiced with a bare bow in unusual circumstances, I can safely say that there's no reason for an accuracy penalty while crouching as you can cant the bow and still hold it very steady while crouched or at least hunched over. As your draw distance is decreased though, your "range increment" would suffer though (a -2 to attack for every increment beyond the first the opponent is away from you in D&D), so a further away enemy would be more likely able to dodge. If your bow had a strength modifier to its damage, you'd lose 1 point of damage for that as well.

 

The only reason I can really think you'd want to crouch while using a bow though would be to keep yourself hidden, or at least make yourself a smaller target for another ranged combatant.