Discussion with Obsidian and Community

[Osvir]

So! I love to talk about ideas, discuss ideas, improve upon ideas. Find those cool looking features, visionary, dreaming and so forth. But I like to limit myself as well with "restrictions" on what I believe is "capable" or plausible. Something along the lines of realistic Fantasy, Steampunk, Future and the like. Ideas that rings of "authenticity" (an easier word for you who do not comprehend: "Dat is legit" is another form of "authenticity").

 

I want this thread to not really be suggestions of what Project: Eternity should be like but rather more a thread on what you like and would want. Perhaps stories of how you beat that dragon, and how you envisioned it. What things you saw in Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, something that you felt could be improved upon in a lore authentic way, that it is pretty much the same thing spiritually but mechanically it is beneficial to your own "time" and "experience". Perhaps even beneficial to your characters in terms of experience, roleplay, banter, story and so forth.

 

Some general cRPG elements I would like to see.

 

 

The Pack and the Mule

 

This section covers Inventory, Looting and Campsite variations.

 

* "Your Inventory is Full"

You practically have no inventory space at all, and can only carry a certain amount of things. Scenario; Rolf had been wandering around this dungeon floor for hours now ("It's only the first level Narrator!" - Rolf), carrying everything he could on his back. He was stuffed! Scrolls had been tucked in between his belt and in his big leather boots he had carefully stashed an excessive amount of throwing knives. Why not? With every step he took he panted, as a big brown Santa Clause backpack weighed him down. Spears, Halberds and staff's were pointing out.

 

"Hey Rolf!" echoed in the distance, his companions were back! Helga, Jacob and Tim. Rolf almost cried, he was glad to see them. Well just a little bit, because they were carrying more stuff for him to carry.

 

What I try to explain in this scenario is that, I feel that it isn't authentic that your character would be able to carry so much as they do at some times. I kind of want a more limited inventory that let's me keep focusing on looting a little bit less without loosing benefits of it. More on this in "* Loot'n n' Plunder'in". I want a tactical approach to the Inventory management and control, "Do I keep this armor, or pick up the one I just found... one having each an advantage as well as a disadvantage.. hmm". To mirror yourself, how much are you able to carry, and fight at the same time mind you.

 

Introducing Pack Mule, an old weary Mule, grey in color and slightly beardy and skinny. Rolf. Jokes aside, the Pack Mule would be Quest related, in-game story/side-story much like how the car in FallOut 2 is purely optional. However it would be very beneficial to have it with you, of course. There is also the question of being able to hire/buy a slave to carry some of the excessive gear you are holding on to.

 

No matter how harsh it may sound with the slave, I only wish to portray an authentic situation in an authentic display of another world set in another Era.

 

I can also think of here where having a Mage becomes even more useful, as there could be a skill (even from the start) which allows him to send a couple of items into another dimension and allow you to carry even more inventory. However, random as it is, on early levels some items would perhaps be lost for eternity, other items could re-appear at any point. Later levels the randomness would be less and more in control, as the Mage could perhaps even use items from this dimension (Teleporting in an Acid Potion that you place on the enemy, so that it falls and crashes in pieces on top of them? F- yes. A sudden spear, appearing from nowhere, backstabbing the enemy? F- yes. Your Mage is no longer an encumbrance to your party).

 

With this "vision" in mind, the Mage would in turn be the one who could carry the most inventory.

 

Tactical Management: As a warrior in the party. So now you are level 2, traveling through the world, you can barely carry much, a couple of potions, two main weapons. A set piece of armor, helmet and so on. You have a couple of spears on your back, either for throwing or for taking to town to sell. A wolf pelt hangs around your right shoulder, tightly knit around your chest. There was an old man who was looking for wolf pelt's for this coming winter.

 

With a limited inventory you wouldn't be hoarding so you can sell and then get more gear. Again I am talking about authenticity "How much can I carry?" versus "How much can I carry in the game?". I want a game which doesn't allow for that to happen, but as a challenge and as an improvement. You are not meant to leave the dungeon midway through it, for whatever reason, and return a couple of days later. Although it all depends on the dungeon, which is its own couple of novels by itself.

 

* "Loot'n n' Plunder'in"

I would love to see an interface of looting, a "zooming glass" way of doing it. L.A. Noire styled inspection, but simpler (instead of the full 3D search, perhaps simply a JPEG file would suffice). In this looting interface you could search pockets, remove armor, inspect etc. Easy, user-friendly, fast. Why? Really it doesn't matter much about the interface, I think I am more after the different options you have to inspect the situation. Practically a "Search" function when looting.

 

With your limited inventory space you would not need to loot everything, and I feel that it should suffice to run through a dungeon and by simply hovering your mouse pointer over those who you slay you would get a message in the combat log stating if they carry things which could benefit your character or not. With this in mind "Search" would be more important to use as well.

 

How does it become important? Well if you don't put a couple of points in it, you won't get all gear you are looking for, likewise if you are putting points in it you will miss out on putting points on something else that could benefit the damage, health or more statistical bits of your character's strength's.

 

Tactical Search: Now you have this to think about as well as your inventory space. The higher Search you get, the easier you will spot and now "Hm, that is a nice looking sword, it is not jagged at all." whilst a low level Search would give you a "Nothing useful here" message. Of course you could still search the body and indeed find out that the sword this bandit was carrying was not worn out at all, whilst yours seriously needed the attention of a blacksmith.

 

With a limited inventory, and a broader Search: The World will be your Inventory and your character the Search. <- That's kind of spiritually cryptic. The Character is what is most important, in my opinion, above all else in the game.

 

 

Campsite

 

A living campsite, I am thinking about Suikoden highly when I think of adjusting a campsite. I really liked the campsite in Dragon Age: Origins as well, it was really nice. All I disliked about it was the loading screen and it was always the same area. What if I could set up a Tent anywhere? What if I could macro-manage it to place a guard, whilst the others rest? The Sims mechanic* where you can Fast Forward really fast (but only during Rest sequences) and midway pause in it and change guards so that they both get some rest.

 

Fatigue Thread:

<M.I.A can't find it, looked around for a little bit but got stuck in another thread instead>

 

One way to solve this is to have a mobile Camp (Pack Mule) that you can take with you, it is your stash basically and it can be stolen, attacked, lost, eaten. Where you can leave it outside caves, or if the Dungeon is large enough (entrance~) the Mule can through it. A slave, previously mention further up, could be hired/bought to carry your inventory between the Pack Mule/Camp and back to the character.

 

 

Magic A: "I put on my Wizard hat"

 

Magic has always been... magical to say the least. Mage's come in many different colors, and I like them all. But as I am comparing with Baldur's Gate I need to say I wish to see them improved upon. Still the same Mage's, but slightly more useful. An idea I have brought up before is the use of "Charges", the Soul seems to fit in here greatly somehow and I have a few thoughts on that too. I know I said this wouldn't be a discussion about Project: Eternity, but I like having the Soul (whatever it is) feature included into a game.

 

Lore: Being a Mage has never been a gift, neither has it ever been a curse. Though just so has it always been so. A Mage has a terribly large Soul, wouldn't you say? Almost abundant, indeed. He finds himself often in contemplation, as he practices Tai-Chi. To the unseen and unpracticed eye, he would be moving the fabrics of the world, and control his spiritual presence gallantly. This was something that all great Mage's one day practiced. For to be able to cast the forces of Magic, one needs to be in tune, One, with oneself.

 

A scholar has studied magic for his entire life, with a rather remarkably low Soul, lack of confidence he has fought and struggled his entire life to be able to cast a single Fireball from the tips of his fingers. Never will this poor Soul succeed, some are lucky, some are un-lucky, that is just the way of the Soul. It is mysterious, and no one can really tell what Magic is except what it itself is; Magic! There are speculations if Love is Magic, and many nod their head in understanding. Magic isn't definable, it simply is. Some can wield it, some shield it, some can deal with it. A part of the Soul has always been Magic.

 

Citing a famous Mage, Roalgd Demonshrinker, "Magic is a part of the Soul, just as the Soul is a part of Magic".

 

Mage's would differ, hence the title, each Mage is his own Mage in every way. Of course there are trends, but at the core of it, Magic is as unique as the Soul. There would be Wandslingers (quick, acrobatic Mage's, more attune to the element of "Wind"), Templar Mage's (sturdy, strong, protective "Earthern" Mage's), Wizards (More traditional, wise-guy, classical BG/IWD Mage), Battlemage's (Not simply Battle Cleric's or Paladin's but Mage's that participate close up, battling Evil with flaming fists, Close-Range Magic, more attune to the element of "Fire"). Cleric's are a given, and are sort of Magical in themselves, with the ability to call upon the gentle aspects of Magic, hence attune to the element of "Water".

 

A "fallen" Mage, who has turned corrupted in the ways of Blood Magic, is always evil. There is no Jowan who can contain it, it is utterly and entirely Demonic.

 

Magic and Zen; a Mage needs to be clear minded and harmonious. Otherwise you can never become a Mage, achieving this potency in-game would be a great feature. When the Mage attains "Zen" he can, of course, fall into deeper and darker pits and become corrupted. An idea that a Mage has, could become an idea that sparks into reality. That is why it is so dangerous, and why Mage's often tend to become mad when they loose dear ones (Necromancy is common for many reasons). The power of the mind, the power to move mountains, when the Mage achieves Zen, (a.k.a. Mastery) it is a closely observed session wherein the Mage understand it.

 

The power flowing through the Universe of the Mage's entire being is often known to instill human Hubris.

 

Druids are also a variation of the Mage, however they attune themselves with the Mother Soul, as they call it (Earth). A Druid is most commonly an Elf (and in occasional cases a Gnome or rarely a Human). Druids watch over the lands and protect it, "Gardener's of the Tree Trunk". An Evil Druid is never heard of, only Grey one's with a deeper agenda.

 

 

Magic B: Spellbooks

 

Spell Books is an idea of being able to Write Magic to several different Spell Books that you can wield as an equipable item, where you could have 10 different Fire spells in one and 10 different Water spells in another. Switching Spell Books would be like switching from Axe to Sword on your Warrior mid-combat. The three aspects to of here is:

1, Spell Book; Fire

2, Spell Book; Water

3, Your Mana/Charges. 3/3 Level 1 Spells. Changing Spell Book does not affect the Charges.

 

Spell Levels: I remember fondly the different spell level Pages from BG and friends, having different charges for each level. So each level should be different charges, different Spell Levels are attainable at different Character Levels, perhaps even only attainable by Questing. In some ways I feel that "How does the Mage suddenly learn all these new spells, who taught him? Where is he hiding the "Manual of being a Mage; A Noober's Guide 2C?".

 

Spell Charges: Expendable and replenish-able over a longer period of time. Your character would have 1/1 Spell Level 1 Charges for your Level 1 Mage. At Level 4 your Mage would have 4/4 Spell Level 1 Charges and 2/2 Spell Level 2 Charges. To quickly run through all the levels:

 

1/1 Spell Level 1 Charges per Level (Level 4 Mage, 4/4 Spell Level 1 Charges)

Spell Level 2 Charges 1/2 of current Level (Level 8 Mage, 4/4 Spell Level 2 Charges)

Spell Level 3 Charges 1/3 of current Level (Level 12 Mage, 4/4 Spell Level 3 Charges

Spell Level 4 Charges 1/4 of current Level (Level 16 Mage, 4/4 Spell Level 4 Charges)

Spell Level 5 Charges 1/5 of current Level (Level 20 Mage, 4/4 Spell Level 5 Charges)

Spell Level 6 Charges 1/6 of current Level (Level 24 Mage, 4/4 Spell Level 6 Charges)

Spell Level 7 Charges 1/7 of current Level (Level 28 Mage, 4/4 Spell Level 7 Charges)

Spell Level 8 & 9: Only quest related. 1/1 Charges/

 

And they would cap at 9/9.

 

A Level 30 Mage would have:

Level 1: 9/9

Level 2: 9/9

Level 3: 9/9

Level 4: 7/7

Level 5: 6/6

Level 6: 5/5

Level 7: 4/4

Level 8: 1/1 (+1/+1 for Once a Game Quest)

Level 9: 1/1 (Can't boost/Need special means, items, rituals to cast, Cooldown takes several in-game days)

 

 

Magic C: Cooldown and Turn-Based, Resting

 

The discussion for several hours last night on how Cooldown will work or how it could best work. Some discussion on how it won't work at all, without arguments to why but simple self-proclaimed Fact that it simply won't. There are several methods to handle the cooldown (Turn-Based Cooldown or Time Based Cooldown).

 

Turn-Based Cooldown means that the Mage casts 1 Level 1 Spell and looses 1/ accordingly (Now down to 3/4 as he is Level 4). It would now pop up a number over that spell, let's for the sake of it say "3". You direct all of your party members each their turn and now you are back to the Mage, but now the "3" has turned into a remarkable "2". Mind you, different cooldowns on different spells. Also, this is only the cooldown of casting spells, Charges are still present as a third-party factor. This is a mechanic that would work very well in-combat of cRPG's.

 

Time-Based Cooldown means that the Mage replenishes his Charges over time so that he can cast more Spells later. Resting is, in a sense, the imaginary feel of time running along. Great for an out of combat Cooldown. Again trying to be statistical:

 

Level 1 Spells recharge at a rate of +1/ once every in-game hour

Level 2 Spells recharge at a rate of +1/ once every two in-game hours

Level 3 Spells recharge at a rate of +1/ once every four in-game hours

Level 4 Spells recharge at a rate of +1/ once every seven in-game hours

Level 5 Spells recharge at a rate of +1/ once every twelve in-game hours

Level 6 Spells recharge at a rate of +1/ once every eighteen in-game hours

Level 7 Spells recharge at a rate of +1/ once every twenty-fifth in-game hour

Level 8 Spells recharge at a rate of +1/ once every second day

Level 9 Spells do not recharge by time, but by certain Rituals, Quests and/or Items

 

* Resting: Once a Day mechanic, with its own Time-Based Cooldown, capable to use once every 16th in-game hour.

 

An excellent form of explanation is; I am looking to flirt with the idea of getting old school Magic from BG and IWD, but at the same time have a constant flow of replenishment. It would still be a challenge, 1 Level 3 Spell would recharge at the rate of 2 Level 1 Spells and 1 Level 2 Spell. This way you'd be throwing lower level spells, in the "meantime" as your higher level spells recharge. Likewise you can find yourself depleted of Spell Charges entirely, having 0/# Spell Charges. Casting spells depletes faster than replenishing~ so the tactical conservatism is still necessary.

 

Resting 8-hours would not replenish ALL spells, but only those spells that would be replenished within those hours of resting. . Likewise there could be scarce specific Spell Level Potions that replenishes +1/# Spell Level #.

 

 

NPC's and Fame; Are you the Chicken Chaser or the Returner of Time?

 

Different reactions from the world, even if you are an incurable Light White Shining Paladin from a Shining Bright Academy Castle "How to be THE Paladin of Holy Light!". NPC's will comment on your naiviteé of trying to make the world a better place, only to later confess they were wrong when you indeed succeed. Maybe some people will move away, close their windows as you pass, if you play an awfully evil character.

 

With the option of being more mysterious in your approach, where you can be an evil super villain, but no one knows that you are that person. Basically the NPC's are talking about what's going on in the world and they will react to how you change it.

 

Exploration and Research; Lore

 

Before entering a Dungeon, will there be indication, an Outpost Guard who sees you walk into the "Forbidden" or "Dangerous" area, runs after you or yells at you to stop. Tells you off the danger's and the things that lurk in these places, giving you an indication (from a roleplaying perspective) what might be a good idea to bring with you. So preparation is important beforehand, but I understand that not everyone plays like a Scholar, even if you prepare without foresight or research you can still manage as well. Just because you don't have the Dungeon Counter-Spells doesn't mean it should be impossible to finish.

 

Dungeon's should be able to be tackled in many different ways, Tactical Wise. No Linear "Go from point A to point B" but expanding upon the idea that you can use the environment to your favor. So you don't have a Mage in this particular party, and you are in a dungeon where many enemies are more resistant to physical attacks and vulnerable to magical attacks, does it mean that this Mageless party should have a harder time, or an impossible time, challenging this dungeon? I lean way more to the foremost and think that the latter is stupid.

 

In the same way I want to be able to explore a dungeon without a Thief scouting ahead all of the time, looking for traps, opening all of the locks and being the utility guy. I want to be able to get through the traps by quick thinking, reaction. Perhaps one notices a traps and hence then the party will be more careful generally in this dungeon and the party will gain "Trap Insight" bonus for the duration of the Dungeon, which means they will avoid more, notice more and take less damage from future traps.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Osvir

[drgonzo]

Shiiiiiiiiiet son, not trying to be a **** but how long did it take you to write that? My eyes hurt.

[agewisdom]

A very comprehensive and impressive compilation of suggestions. Definitely like some of the ideas and hope Obsidian takes them into consideration.

[Ieo]

Honestly, individual ideas should be broken up into individual threads. The forum format with threaded conversations is not built for this kind of thing. One giant, topically very messy thread (because people respond to specific topics that interest them, which means not the entire OP) is far less useful than multiple threads on different topics for deeper discourse and "staying on-topic" as it were. This ENTIRE forum (subforum now) is the playground for ideas. Just sayin'...

[Osvir]

Shiiiiiiiiiet son, not trying to be a **** but how long did it take you to write that? My eyes hurt.

 

Not too long really, had most of the ideas pretty much on my harddrive. I've been thinking about how an improved Baldur's Gate Infinity Engine game would or could look like today, for years.

 

EDIT:

Honestly, individual ideas should be broken up into individual threads. The forum format with threaded conversations is not built for this kind of thing. One giant, topically very messy thread (because people respond to specific topics that interest them, which means not the entire OP) is far less useful than multiple threads on different topics for deeper discourse and "staying on-topic" as it were. This ENTIRE forum (subforum now) is the playground for ideas. Just sayin'...

 

I agree, but the problem is that every aspect is somewhat linked. So the Topic of Mage Spells is related to Cooldown, which in turn is related to Resting, which in turn effects your entire party as well as "How to tackle Dungeon?" tactical management.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Osvir

[dlux]

That is too much for one thread. Split it up into individual threads.

Edited October 3, 2012 by dlux

[Ieo]

Honestly, individual ideas should be broken up into individual threads. The forum format with threaded conversations is not built for this kind of thing. One giant, topically very messy thread (because people respond to specific topics that interest them, which means not the entire OP) is far less useful than multiple threads on different topics for deeper discourse and "staying on-topic" as it were. This ENTIRE forum (subforum now) is the playground for ideas. Just sayin'...

 

I agree, but the problem is that every aspect is somewhat linked. So the Topic of Mage Spells is related to Cooldown, which in turn is related to Resting, which in turn effects your entire party as well as "How to tackle Dungeon?" tactical management.

 

I understand where you're coming from, but the forum venue is still limited in this regard. You can easily create a "magic system" thread, and I'd argue a "tactical combat" thread with higher-level discussion is better than trying to tie everything to only magic, since there are other classes involved not to mention soul (which we know so little about).

 

Web writing is very different composition theory compared to literature and other longer forms.

[Osvir]

Okay, well then this thread can be locked/archived or removed or discussion of just what we are discussing I s'pose "Too long of a thread".

 

Or I can tackle what I wanted with this thread, what would you guys like to see in a modern day cRPG that hails influence from D&D and the more "advanced" and tactical classical cRPG's that built the genre. What would you see as something creatively new? Do you have any vision, had any dreams of something you'd like to see implemented? Or am I the only who dreams of how RPG's could be presented and built? xD *forever alone*

 

What have you encountered in a game that makes you think "if it only worked like this" and what exactly are those improvements you thought of? What is it that you disliked, that was more of an encumbrance for your experience?

[Rabain]

Too much in one thread and the title is basically wrong, it implies this is THE thread to discuss everything with Obsidian. A better title would be "my suggestions for PE".

[Osvir]

Too much in one thread and the title is basically wrong, it implies this is THE thread to discuss everything with Obsidian. A better title would be "my suggestions for PE".

 

That is only because I'm discussing this at this forum, I've had these ideas for some time and would like to discuss them. I also want to hear your ideas, on things that you wanted in Baldur's Gate (i.e "Something is missing in this experience"), what you enjoyed about Icewind Dale. Now this doesn't mean that Obsidian needs to implement anything. I like ideas of course I wish to influence as well, but that's not up to me to decide whether I do or do not.

 

Also, I split it up into three different threads here:

 

Pack-A-Mule:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60995-pack-a-mule/

 

ABC Magic:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60996-abc-magic/

 

Exploring the World:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60997-exploration-the-world-and-how-it-reacts-to-your-meddling-with-it/