Leveling up skills should have more depth/change (IE lv 1 fireball shouldn't look same as max lv).

[Stiler]

Sorry for a new topic so soon but I thought of this and wanted to get it out before I forget.

 

In many rpg games when you level up a skill , for example say a generic mage fireball, it usually just enhances the damage of that spell.

 

I for one would love it if instead of simply an increase in damage and that max level fireball spell looking just like your starting lv 1 fireball, it looked vastly different, more powerful, and added depth.

 

For example, at level one a fireball looks like this:

 

Then at max level the same spell looks like....well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsnL6gmGOZA#t=1m08s

 

(ok maybe not THAT huge, but you get the point).

 

There could even be added affects on abilities. For example, the lv 1 fireball has no "splash" damage, at a higher level it has splash damage, then at max level it also "pulls" enemies and objects within a certain range into where you cast the fireball and then after a few seconds it creates an explosion and does more damage to any objects it pulled into it.

 

This can apply to melee abilities as well, not just magic things.

 

For example a shield bash. At level 1 of the ability you just have a foreward knock with your shield and cause the guy to stumble back. Then at a higher level the bash stuns, and at the highest level that bash ability knocks them down.

 

Basically I think it'd be nice if the skills had more depth, both visually as well as gameplay wise as you leveled them up. A low level character who uses the same ability when he's max level should feel/look different imo.

[Epsilon Rose]

I like this idea, but I want to expand on it. I think it would be cool if when you leveled a skill it either had branching choices or aspects you could choose to increase. If you really wanted to make it impressive you could combine the two ideas so that once you increased certain aspects to a given level you'd unlock new aspects. For example, if with fire ball you might initially have to choose between range, and speed, aoe, number of projectiles and damage (though you might want to make that one automatic or dependent on the other choices, so range might give more damage then aoe) but if you get range to level 2 and speed to level 3 you could start leveling homing.

 

It would probably be more work (though you could probably get away with having fewer base skills), but I think it would make for a really fun skill system.

[Stiler]

Yes that is a great idea.

 

Like after you level up fireball it has a branch off. One way allows you to shoot out multiple fireballs for a bigger range, but the other choice allows for a type of prolonged "fire ray" type of thign or something like that.

 

Could have multiple paths so you could really make it quite different depending on how you choose to lv it up.

[Infinitron]

Fireballs don't have levels and special abilities. They're just fireballs.

 

Now, if OP is referring to the fact that fireball damage scales with the caster's level, then yes, it would be cool to see that increased damage reflected visually.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Infinitron

[Epsilon Rose]

There's no reason fireballs or any other special ability couldn't have it's own level. If it were up to me I think I'd have individual skills level, but I'd base it on how often that skill is used and not just give you some points every time your character levels up. That way skills you get at the beginning of the game are still useful towards the end and characters are actually better at the skills they favor (which makes sense).

[nikolokolus]

I like the idea of scalable spells. There should be no reason a high level mage can't use the cantrips and invocations from lower levels to greater effect than a novice.

[Infinitron]

I like the idea of scalable spells. There should be no reason a high level mage can't use the cantrips and invocations from lower levels to greater effect than a novice.

 

Sure, most of the offensive spells in D&D/the Infinity Engine games were scalable, although usually within limits.

 

But that's not the same thing as a Diablo-style system of actually leveling up your spells directly.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Infinitron

[daetrin]

Combine the two. Have spell scaling with caster level, but have adjunct effects add their own level-scaling effect. I don't know how this would tie into any sort of existing advancement system, but if you had to make choices on what spells to enhance and how, it'd be interesting. (Also, melee skills should work the same way. I don't want to see Linear Warrior, Quadratic Mage. And death to ability scores!)

[Tlantl]

So let me get this straight, you want the devs to waste precious resources making a half dozen animations and effects for every spell in the game that gets a slight power increase as you gain levels?

 

I guess if we want to give up dialogue or a wider variety of items or have less detailed backgrounds, or maybe have some unknown hack come in from off the street to compose music, or give up the added stretch goal content like new races and classes, they could do that.

 

Who knows what they'd wind up having to skimp on to supply us with all these different animations and visuals, just so your 5th level fireball looks sort of/kind of different from your 4th level fireball.

[Stiler]

So let me get this straight, you want the devs to waste precious resources making a half dozen animations and effects for every spell in the game that gets a slight power increase as you gain levels?

 

I guess if we want to give up dialogue or a wider variety of items or have less detailed backgrounds, or maybe have some unknown hack come in from off the street to compose music, or give up the added stretch goal content like new races and classes, they could do that.

 

Who knows what they'd wind up having to skimp on to supply us with all these different animations and visuals, just so your 5th level fireball looks sort of/kind of different from your 4th level fireball.

 

That was a very nice post, way to be constructive.

 

Did you not see the idea's about having it actually affect gameplay with branching style tree's to the spells? Also I don't see how making a new spell effect would take away from the writers task, you do know that developers don't all do everything?

 

Writers don't usually do animation and artist don't usually write, etc.

 

 

This was just an idea, if you don't think having the same spell at the max level should look any different then a noob mage lv 1 spell when they don't know anything then ok, but no need to be so sarcastic in your tone and demeaning.

[Umberlin]

I can understand the want for something like this. I have seen it done to certain extents. Whether it be DAoC where new ranks of a Wizard's Fireball would level up visually, or games that used a skill system that slowly increased your proficiency in an ability with use that upgraded its visuals . . . yeah, it's been done before. It's not sensible for every project, but it can definitly be done if fitting for the setting and practical from a development standpoint.

 

The thing is I don't think we know enough about magic in this setting to know if it's fitting, and as for practical from a development standpoint . . . well, that's Obsidian's call by my measure. I guess we'll see.

[moridin84]

Eh?

 

To be honest I am assuming that we won't be taking Fireball level 1 and then take Fireball level 2. These days spells/skills just scale with your level and any skills you pick up later will be completely new sills.

 

Or potentially a Diablo 3 like system.

[Jasede]

I believe this is a waste of time. Spells should scale with level like D&D, except that higher level spells are more useful in general.

[mikayel]

I believe this is a waste of time. Spells should scale with level like D&D, except that higher level spells are more useful in general.

 

This.

 

I would also be open to the idea that your spells scale not with caster level but with some kind of attribute if said attributes are growing (like a spell casting skill, or if "int" is basically something you put points into on level ups).

 

As for the animation -- I couldn't care less. ToEE's spell animations were fine, simple and to the point, even if some of them were literally just colored lines moving around.

 

It seems that in nearly every post I am making in this forum I might as well just say "function over form".

[Aedelric]

Having varying levels for each and every of the magical effects in the game would require a great deal of artwork.

 

I am for it, if the money stretches.