Gay and Lesbian Inclusiveness!

[Ashram]

So how do you think that the inclusion of the LBGTPZ community should be handled realistically, in the Eternity setting.

 

Do you think that the rise of homosexuality will be mainly limited to the more populous areas, such as bustling city states and such. Whereas in the conservative and largely patriarchal societies of the tribal and clan civilisations it will be frowned upon, if not a banishment or killing offense, such as in Caesars Legion. Or could we see a reverse of that in some cultures, where the "savages" are fairly liberal in this respect.

 

Could a characters sexuality cause them to be targetted by religions or perhaps hatemobs if they flaunt it? Might certain merchants and quest givers refuse to serve the protagonist or npcs, because of rumours. This could also open up other dialogues, with temples of fertility and such. Good antagonists could be born from politicians scapegoating the protagonist with the usual buzzwords, decadent, profligate, ungodly etcetera. Might this be one of the axes that the saint of Godhammer citadel had to grind before the big bang.

Sure, why not. I don't mind different cultures within the game viewing sexuality differently. It'd be a realistic way to approach it.

 

As interesting an idea that is, one that I think would be great for storytelling. I fear that would bring in an entire legion of litigation against this game. I could just see it now "Game maker Obsidian promotes hate crimes against gays!" No thank you.

[Nonek]

Didn't see them sued for Caesars Legion in New Vegas, a game that sold five million copies. Though I hope Eternity does well, I can't see it toppling that behemoth in any manner. The whole point of the project is to make everything make sense to the seting isn't it, from the effect that magic would have on a world realistically to the first use of a weapon of mass destruction. That's why I donated because I want that verisimillitude, if I want shallow and undetailed settings that are just there for brainless fun, I play Bioware.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Nonek

[metiman]

So has it been confirmed that if you like Bioware games you therefore must be a homosexual?

[Sarog]

So how do you think that the inclusion of the LBGTPZ community should be handled realistically, in the Eternity setting.

 

Do you think that the rise of homosexuality will be mainly limited to the more populous areas, such as bustling city states and such. Whereas in the conservative and largely patriarchal societies of the tribal and clan civilisations it will be frowned upon, if not a banishment or killing offense, such as in Caesars Legion. Or could we see a reverse of that in some cultures, where the "savages" are fairly liberal in this respect.

 

Could a characters sexuality cause them to be targetted by religions or perhaps hatemobs if they flaunt it? Might certain merchants and quest givers refuse to serve the protagonist or npcs, because of rumours. This could also open up other dialogues, with temples of fertility and such. Good antagonists could be born from politicians scapegoating the protagonist with the usual buzzwords, decadent, profligate, ungodly etcetera. Might this be one of the axes that the saint of Godhammer citadel had to grind before the big bang.

Sure, why not. I don't mind different cultures within the game viewing sexuality differently. It'd be a realistic way to approach it.

 

As interesting an idea that is, one that I think would be great for storytelling. I fear that would bring in an entire legion of litigation against this game. I could just see it now "Game maker Obsidian promotes hate crimes against gays!" No thank you.

 

It would definitely be an interesting idea, but as I said in another post the problem with exploring homophobia and other social issues that face homosexuality is that if you deal with the issue frankly, you're likely to make a lot of people feel uncomfortable or persecuted, whichever group they identify with. Even if it was successful it would cause quite a lot of controversy, put the public relations guys through a fair bit of grief, and easily hijack the game's legacy. It would be a gutsy narrative decision, and not one to be taken lightly.

[Troller]

So how do you think that the inclusion of the LBGTPZ community should be handled realistically, in the Eternity setting.

 

Do you think that the rise of homosexuality will be mainly limited to the more populous areas, such as bustling city states and such. Whereas in the conservative and largely patriarchal societies of the tribal and clan civilisations it will be frowned upon, if not a banishment or killing offense, such as in Caesars Legion. Or could we see a reverse of that in some cultures, where the "savages" are fairly liberal in this respect.

 

Could a characters sexuality cause them to be targetted by religions or perhaps hatemobs if they flaunt it? Might certain merchants and quest givers refuse to serve the protagonist or npcs, because of rumours. This could also open up other dialogues, with temples of fertility and such. Good antagonists could be born from politicians scapegoating the protagonist with the usual buzzwords, decadent, profligate, ungodly etcetera. Might this be one of the axes that the saint of Godhammer citadel had to grind before the big bang.

Sure, why not. I don't mind different cultures within the game viewing sexuality differently. It'd be a realistic way to approach it.

 

As interesting an idea that is, one that I think would be great for storytelling. I fear that would bring in an entire legion of litigation against this game. I could just see it now "Game maker Obsidian promotes hate crimes against gays!" No thank you.

 

It would definitely be an interesting idea, but as I said in another post the problem with exploring homophobia and other social issues that face homosexuality is that if you deal with the issue frankly, you're likely to make a lot of people feel uncomfortable or persecuted, whichever group they identify with. Even if it was successful it would cause quite a lot of controversy, put the public relations guys through a fair bit of grief, and easily hijack the game's legacy. It would be a gutsy narrative decision, and not one to be taken lightly.

But it is realistic to have homophobia and sometimes lot of crimes related to that, here in BR lots of gay people are murdered everyear, the Midia always portrays those crimes as hate crimes.I personally dont have much against gay people, but I really do think they are causing unecessary chaos with their stance, they could avoid that by doing what most heterosexual respectable people do regarding their own sexuality, they don`t go around announcing it to the whole world, sometimes causing mayhem, why not leave as something private? IMO they would get more respect that way.

[Nonek]

So how do you think that the inclusion of the LBGTPZ community should be handled realistically, in the Eternity setting.

 

Do you think that the rise of homosexuality will be mainly limited to the more populous areas, such as bustling city states and such. Whereas in the conservative and largely patriarchal societies of the tribal and clan civilisations it will be frowned upon, if not a banishment or killing offense, such as in Caesars Legion. Or could we see a reverse of that in some cultures, where the "savages" are fairly liberal in this respect.

 

Could a characters sexuality cause them to be targetted by religions or perhaps hatemobs if they flaunt it? Might certain merchants and quest givers refuse to serve the protagonist or npcs, because of rumours. This could also open up other dialogues, with temples of fertility and such. Good antagonists could be born from politicians scapegoating the protagonist with the usual buzzwords, decadent, profligate, ungodly etcetera. Might this be one of the axes that the saint of Godhammer citadel had to grind before the big bang.

Sure, why not. I don't mind different cultures within the game viewing sexuality differently. It'd be a realistic way to approach it.

 

As interesting an idea that is, one that I think would be great for storytelling. I fear that would bring in an entire legion of litigation against this game. I could just see it now "Game maker Obsidian promotes hate crimes against gays!" No thank you.

 

It would definitely be an interesting idea, but as I said in another post the problem with exploring homophobia and other social issues that face homosexuality is that if you deal with the issue frankly, you're likely to make a lot of people feel uncomfortable or persecuted, whichever group they identify with. Even if it was successful it would cause quite a lot of controversy, put the public relations guys through a fair bit of grief, and easily hijack the game's legacy. It would be a gutsy narrative decision, and not one to be taken lightly.

 

And therefore all the more worth doing, i'm not saying it should be the key theme of the game, that's the personal journey of the protagonist (and a setting being born.) But if we trivialise the plight of gay people in this world, and present them as being unchallenged and living in harmony, then we are insulting the audiences intelligence. The slavery and totalitarianism of Caesars Legion wasn't flinched from, let's not flinch from presenting homosexuality and societies reaction to it in a realistic light as well.

[c0wb0ycliche]

So how do you think that the inclusion of the LBGTPZ community should be handled realistically, in the Eternity setting.

 

Do you think that the rise of homosexuality will be mainly limited to the more populous areas, such as bustling city states and such. Whereas in the conservative and largely patriarchal societies of the tribal and clan civilisations it will be frowned upon, if not a banishment or killing offense, such as in Caesars Legion. Or could we see a reverse of that in some cultures, where the "savages" are fairly liberal in this respect.

 

Could a characters sexuality cause them to be targetted by religions or perhaps hatemobs if they flaunt it? Might certain merchants and quest givers refuse to serve the protagonist or npcs, because of rumours. This could also open up other dialogues, with temples of fertility and such. Good antagonists could be born from politicians scapegoating the protagonist with the usual buzzwords, decadent, profligate, ungodly etcetera. Might this be one of the axes that the saint of Godhammer citadel had to grind before the big bang.

Sure, why not. I don't mind different cultures within the game viewing sexuality differently. It'd be a realistic way to approach it.

 

As interesting an idea that is, one that I think would be great for storytelling. I fear that would bring in an entire legion of litigation against this game. I could just see it now "Game maker Obsidian promotes hate crimes against gays!" No thank you.

 

It would definitely be an interesting idea, but as I said in another post the problem with exploring homophobia and other social issues that face homosexuality is that if you deal with the issue frankly, you're likely to make a lot of people feel uncomfortable or persecuted, whichever group they identify with. Even if it was successful it would cause quite a lot of controversy, put the public relations guys through a fair bit of grief, and easily hijack the game's legacy. It would be a gutsy narrative decision, and not one to be taken lightly.

But it is realistic to have homophobia and sometimes lot of crimes related to that, here in BR lots of gay people are murdered everyear, the Midia always portrays those crimes as hate crimes.I personally dont have much against gay people, but I really do think they are causing unecessary chaos with their stance, they could avoid that by doing what most heterosexual respectable people do regarding their own sexuality, they don`t go around announcing it to the whole world, sometimes causing mayhem, why not leave as something private? IMO they would get more respect that way.

 

OMG I can't even. Are you aren't from the middle ages? Gays are causing unnecessary chaos because they want equality?

[Goran]

If somebody started a topic about his personal preferences in politics, it would probably be locked very soon. This topic is exactly the same kind of attempt at promoting somebody's personal opinion as a fact and everybody who doesn't agree with his opinion is suddenly a homophobe, because that's not politically correct attitude or whatever.

Dude if you want to fight for your gay rights, that's fine, but go someplace else. Obsidian has nothing to do with that.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Goran

[Auxilius]

This is a terrible, terrible idea. The article shown in the original message is saying gays have been handled correctly in FNV because it was an offhand comment for characters that could be counted on one hand.

Well, it should stay that way. Nobody cares about fictional characters' sexuality except sweaty nerds. I don't want to see gays or lesbians in game, nor do I want to see people showing off their heterosexuality. I don't think them being represented is something worth of any value.

I want to see their personality, what they are beyond their sexual preferences. If a character happened to reveal he's gay during a conversation, well, that's it. No more comment on the matter.

The only reason I'm writing that is because this thread is one of the most popular and people seem to really think ti's important. Well, it's not. And if LGBT representantives are aiming for some kind of recognition by the video games industry, well, games like Dragon Age 2 gave it already. We're beyond that now.

[Umberlin]

I think I'll go back to my response of Romances in general, where I believe if a sbject matter is going to be in a game my concern isn't what the subject matter is . . . as well as it's well done, thoughtful, respectful in the sense of treating it intelligently and maturely. With that particular forms of subject matter whether it be a gay relationship, drug use, or other subject that can sometimes be hot buttons, with some people, I don't care if they're present. I just care that if they're present they're well done, there for a reason, and not just there as fan service or to poke the hornet's nest.

 

Quality is my concern, first are foremost. If they think they can handle 'any' given subject matter well, maturely and intelligently then more power to them.

[Fionavar]

But it is realistic to have homophobia and sometimes lot of crimes related to that, here in BR lots of gay people are murdered everyear, the Midia always portrays those crimes as hate crimes.I personally dont have much against gay people, but I really do think they are causing unecessary chaos with their stance, they could avoid that by doing what most heterosexual respectable people do regarding their own sexuality, they don`t go around announcing it to the whole world, sometimes causing mayhem, why not leave as something private? IMO they would get more respect that way.

Hello everyone,

 

Rather than infer intent as to this post – or anyone’s for that matter – the reality of personal experience is always valid. Sharing it in certain contexts can actually create dialogue when offered with intention and care. The reality, however, is that such experience is not germane to this discussion. If people want to explore the nuances of experience and how they relate to sexuality, consider doing so in WoT in a manner that is respectful and constructive.

 

As for this discussion, I think it is appropriate to take a time-out. The sand is out of the box and some sweeping now needs to occur. Feel free to return to the topic in a little while by beginning anew.

 

With respect,

 

Fionavar

 

PS If you are concerned or upset, please do PM me, always nice to have a chat about endeavouring to be a species that does not accept violence rationalised against those who experience oppression ...