Modding

[PIPBoy3000]

I suspect there's going to be some sort of scripting language, utilities for creating dialog, and some kind of map creation pipeline (the screenshots were cool, though I'd like to know more details about walkmeshes and such). I think it's all quite early to know what sort of tools they'll be able to make for us. If we could get some tidbits on the scripting language and commands, that would be great.

[Luridis]

Okay, here we go... A bit dated but a good read on adding mod script support into your Unity3D game:

 

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/2018-Lua-support-%28or-any-other-scripting-language%29

[TCJ]

I wonder if Obsidian would be willing to give some tips to a few key modders so that some tools could be ready by or shortly after release point? That is if they aren't going to work on any tools on their own.

Edited October 17, 2012 by TCJ

[Luridis]

I wonder if Obsidian would be willing to give some tips to a few key modders so that some tools could be ready by or shortly after release point? That is if they aren't going to work on any tools on their own.

 

Lots of us got beta keys with our pledge, I planned to take a look-see at the package myself then. Obviously, those supports in beta could not talk about or publish any info if there is an NDA attached to the beta.

[PIPBoy3000]

$110 seemed a little steep for beta access. It's weird that I'd have to pay more so that I can create more value for the game by making mods for it. Then again, it would be weird if I got beta access for the low pledge, just because I'm special.

Whatever. I'll take what I can get. Getting early toolset access to NWN2 was very helpful. I remember cranking out the card game thingie right at the release date.

[jclef]

By the looks of it, I don't think world building tools will become available. It looks like each of the levels will be hand-made in a 3d modeling package (3ds max, maya, blender), rendered out as a flat image and have some sort of 2D walkmesh overlay on top. I could be wrong though - I'm anxious to see what a functioning area looks like.

[slowdive]

Yeah, jclef is all in too! Okay, I'm just hopeful and optimistic )

[JOG]

Yes, that's a general problem of the Infinity engine style. With tilesets like in the original Fallouts or Arcanum you can do just as much as with 3D model based areas, but with the background-image + walkpath / points of interest, it will be hard to add new areas that aren't just photoshopped copies of original ones.

[anubite]

It depends upon the art style really. If there are portions of a map that can be extracted (ie trees, grass, other kind of basic textures), players could construct their own custom maps using a program like photoshop, then create a pathing file somehow.

[Carlo]

If Obsidian stays true to form in engaging the community, I would expect at some point a private consulting group/forum will be created by invite for those interested in developing modding tools (and perhaps some representatives from the ranks of modders in general). That would be a smart move, in order to leverage all of the community talent, motivation and work time that is now waiting to be tapped.

 

Although this may sound somewhat heretical in a modding thread, I don't think Obsidian should focus overly much on creating modding tools prior to launch, as that would by necessity take away limited resources from the massive requirements of developing the game itself. Instead, I would be happy to see the developers keeping future modding requirements in mind from the start and deliberately create an easier-to-mod game architecture. If basic but functional editing tools for the community are a natural offshoot of the development process, however, that would certainly be nice to see available in beta or at launch.

[anek]

Okay, here we go... A bit dated but a good read on adding mod script support into your Unity3D game:

 

http://kerbalspacepr...pting-language)

 

Thanks. This post from that thread (by the game developer) clears a few things up I think:

 

Unity will compile Boo, C# and Javascript (more like UnityScript) internally, yes. But those languages can\'t be used as a runtime script. When the game is built, all code is compiled down to bytecode (or whatever Mono compiles down to), and run as part of the build.

 

So to make runtime scripting possible, we need to build an interpreter into the game. A piece of code that can load in script files and execute instructions while the game is running. Unity by default has no support for this.

 

There are, however, 3rd-party packages that allow such things. I know two systems like that exist already. One is a Python interpreter, and the other is a Lua interpreter.

 

So, it seems scripting - if available - will be independent of how the game engine itself is built, and hence modders will very likely not be using the Unity IDE, but instead be writing scripts in LUA (or whatever scripting language the developers make available) using whatever editor they like.

 

So the pertinent questions are:

• Will the developers actually choose to provide such a scripting system?
  
• How much of the core game content will be implemented using said scripting system rather than directly using Boo/C#/Javascript in the Unity IDE? (Compare to the Infinity Engine games, where pretty much all area/entity/abilities behavior was implemented in the form of overridable LUA scripts)
  

[Luridis]

By the looks of it, I don't think world building tools will become available. It looks like each of the levels will be hand-made in a 3d modeling package (3ds max, maya, blender), rendered out as a flat image and have some sort of 2D walkmesh overlay on top. I could be wrong though - I'm anxious to see what a functioning area looks like.

 

That is entirely possible that the game world is backdrop images as you said. However, there are plenty of license free 3D models out there for to use to make their own scenes. Blender has great community support and good tutorials, and it is open source. Look at the photo below and then go here to see how it's done. Never underestimate your own potential for creativity.

 

 

Edit: Apologies, forgot to credit the linked photo:

Edited October 18, 2012 by Luridis

[Luridis]

Thanks. This post from that thread (by the game developer) clears a few things up I think:

 

Unity will compile Boo, C# and Javascript (more like UnityScript) internally, yes. But those languages can\'t be used as a runtime script. When the game is built, all code is compiled down to bytecode (or whatever Mono compiles down to), and run as part of the build.

 

So to make runtime scripting possible, we need to build an interpreter into the game. A piece of code that can load in script files and execute instructions while the game is running. Unity by default has no support for this.

 

There are, however, 3rd-party packages that allow such things. I know two systems like that exist already. One is a Python interpreter, and the other is a Lua interpreter.

 

So, it seems scripting - if available - will be independent of how the game engine itself is built, and hence modders will very likely not be using the Unity IDE, but instead be writing scripts in LUA (or whatever scripting language the developers make available) using whatever editor they like.

 

So the pertinent questions are:

• Will the developers actually choose to provide such a scripting system?
  
• How much of the core game content will be implemented using said scripting system rather than directly using Boo/C#/Javascript in the Unity IDE? (Compare to the Infinity Engine games, where pretty much all area/entity/abilities behavior was implemented in the form of overridable LUA scripts)
  

 

Actually, one of the nice things about Unity3D is that there are many such script-parsing plugins available on their store with inexpensive, perpetual and blanket licenses. If Obsidian is looking for fast iteration; there it is, and for many existing languages like Lua. It's the world editor that I see as a more complex issue.

 

All the things we've been talking about here are why Unity is so entrenched into the Indy community. It makes a great many things easy and profitable for small groups of developers without milking them out of house and home in expenses and fees.

[metacontent]

I would just like to add my 2 cents here: I am really looking forward to modding.

 

edit: +1 for Lua

Edited October 19, 2012 by metacontent

[Frisk]

Just don't expect to be able to do much modding right at the beginning - from what we are hearing, we don't really expect Obsidian to provide anything like a full toolset - just information on file formats and how to add content. It will take a while for the community to develop some of the necessary tools.

 

However, with luck and a bit of help, there is a chance that some tools might be ready at game launch, but it is far too early to tell now. Let's wait a year or so - then we should have a better idea.

[PIPBoy3000]

I was in on the NWN2 beta toolset program, and the Obsidian folks were great about helping out and answering questions. Admittedly the toolset is a big focus of NWN2 and not so much for PE.

 

My hope is that we can get:

• A scripting reference.
  
• Sample map files.
  
• Dialog information (e.g. tokens, conditional responses, script actions, etc.)
  

With luck they may have some of those things already. I'd love to get started with writing dialog and mapping if at all possible. Shadowlords worked great, as I prepared for a year and cranked out the modules once per month after NWN1 was released.

[testerius]

I was in on the NWN2 beta toolset program, and the Obsidian folks were great about helping out and answering questions. Admittedly the toolset is a big focus of NWN2 and not so much for PE.

 

My hope is that we can get:

• A scripting reference.
  
• Sample map files.
  
• Dialog information (e.g. tokens, conditional responses, script actions, etc.)
  

With luck they may have some of those things already. I'd love to get started with writing dialog and mapping if at all possible. Shadowlords worked great, as I prepared for a year and cranked out the modules once per month after NWN1 was released.

 

Yeah, that would be great. Level editor, dialog editor, scripts and go on - we could start modding game as we want.

[slowdive]

I'd love to have the dialog file format information as soon as it is more or less final. They said they will be using an in-house conversation tool that they have already used on other projects. This leads me to believe that the file format is already known. We could start making our own conversation editor now with that information :-P