Study of Srebrenica

[Drowsy Emperor]

Answering a particular topic in very broad terms "atrocities were commited on a broad scale" does not automatically render the discussion moot.

 

Srebrenica is the axis of all Balkan wars propaganda. Its the myth that built the whole good and evil fantasy that the conflict was supposed to exemplify. If it falls, everything else comes into question.

 

To vilify only one side in a conflict, on unproven allegations and outright falsehoods cannot be seen as other than covering up one's own guilt and the dubiousness of the supposed moral superiority of the accuser.

 

Indeed, why invent large scale atrocities in the first place? Why blow out of proportion everything about Srebrenica?

Edited June 8, 2011 by Drowsy Emperor

[Walsingham]

Because the atrocities occurred. Srebrenica is a neat hook for people's minds. But disprove Srebrenica and the atrocities don't magically disappear.

 

Listen, take it from a Brit. You can't write the bad things your country has done out of history. You have to try to do some good to balance them out.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Because the atrocities occurred. Srebrenica is a neat hook for people's minds. But disprove Srebrenica and the atrocities don't magically disappear.

 

Listen, take it from a Brit. You can't write the bad things your country has done out of history. You have to try to do some good to balance them out.

 

I'm not worried about the "bad things", I'm worried about the disbalance of post conflict justice and the eternal perpetuation of one sided guilt in a three (and more) sided war.

 

Did you know that there was an armed fraction withing the Bosnian Muslims (commanded by Fikret Abdic) that fought for the preservation of Yugoslavia and was allied with the Bosnian Serb army?

 

Lord Owen, a British diplomat and co-author of the Vance-Owen and Owen-Stoltenberg peace plans described Abdić as "forthright, confident and different from the Sarajevan Muslims. He was in favor of negotiating and compromising with Croats and Serbs to achieve a settlement, and scathing about those Muslims who wanted to block any such settlement."

 

Heh we had a muslim commander and a part of the muslim population fighting on our side and they call us genocidal.

 

Of course, he was later tried for war crimes.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Drowsy Emperor

[Calax]

Victors write the history books.

[Humodour]

Victors write the history books.

 

And the history books would be sad indeed if the Nazis, Soviets, or Serbians won their respective wars.

[Zoraptor]

Sheesh Krezack. I really hope you're just ignorant rather than trolling deliberately with that comparison.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Victors write the history books.

 

Indeed.

 

And the history books would be sad indeed if the Nazis, Soviets, or Serbians won their respective wars.

 

 

Sheesh Krezack. I really hope you're just ignorant rather than trolling deliberately with that comparison.

 

I really should be very angry at this point, but I feel sorry for him. He's trying to start a flame war so the moderators can jump in and lock the topic.

 

Aren't the moderators going to intervene considering that Mr. Krezack is not being very helpful to this discussion?

Edited June 9, 2011 by Drowsy Emperor

[Humodour]

Sheesh Krezack. I really hope you're just ignorant rather than trolling deliberately with that comparison.

 

Comparison? I made no comparison. What I said is certainly correct, though. If you disagree, could you please explain why?

[Humodour]

Because the atrocities occurred. Srebrenica is a neat hook for people's minds. But disprove Srebrenica and the atrocities don't magically disappear.

 

Listen, take it from a Brit. You can't write the bad things your country has done out of history. You have to try to do some good to balance them out.

 

An excellent post.

 

Most countries have atrocities and genocides lurking in their past. The most successful ones are those that have faced up to that fact, apologised, and made amends (my own country is no exception).

[Drowsy Emperor]

Sheesh Krezack. I really hope you're just ignorant rather than trolling deliberately with that comparison.

 

Comparison? I made no comparison. What I said is certainly correct, though. If you disagree, could you please explain why?

 

You did, indirectly and you're well aware of it.

 

What you said is not correct and the answer to your question is simple.

 

Bosnia:

The right of the muslim population to have their own state was never questioned, it was the right to hold hostage an approximately equal number of Serbs in a state they did not want to live in.

If we won the war half of today's Bosnia would be a part of Serbia or independent and the other part would be an separate muslim state.

What do we care what they do with their land? Why would we want to take a small and poor piece of territory comprised of population hostile to us that we would only have problems with?

 

Sarajevo couldn't accept this because the resulting muslim only state would be so small as to be insignificant compared to Croatia and Serbia.

 

Croatia.

The same applies. The Serb population did not want to be a part of a new Croatian state that built its identity on the glorification of a former Nazi puppet state.

They wanted independence in the areas where they were the majority and to eventually link up with Serbia.

A victorious end to the war would have seen a slightly smaller Croatia with a few Serb territories independent, or more likely integrated to BS territory.

 

Kosovo

The primary target was the insurrection, not the civillian population. Were the insurrection's back broken the status quo would have remained unchanged.

Granted, this is not a good solution but it could have been resolved peacefully over a length of time if a terrorist organization didn't force a war on everyone, including its own people.

 

There was no genocide, therefore any "danger of extinction" of any Balkan nation is fictional.

 

Therefore your comparison and claim makes no sense.

[Walsingham]

Look, I've had enough of this. I'll keep your notions on mental file. But I'm not about to let you dissaude me of the version of history imparted to me by numerous books and eye witnesses. Particularly, if I'm brutally honest, given your penchant for 9/11 deniers and the proposal that Al Qaeda doesn't exist.

 

As I have said before, if you're really a student in this area you have much to learn about establishing credibility.

 

Last man out, turn off the lights.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Look, I've had enough of this. I'll keep your notions on mental file. But I'm not about to let you dissaude me of the version of history imparted to me by numerous books and eye witnesses. Particularly, if I'm brutally honest, given your penchant for 9/11 deniers and the proposal that Al Qaeda doesn't exist.

 

As I have said before, if you're really a student in this area you have much to learn about establishing credibility.

 

Last man out, turn off the lights.

 

I'm letting credible evidence by important individuals and organizations speak for itself. If UN Officials, western reporters, Amnesty International and the like are not good enough for you I'm sorry. What you let yourself believe or not believe is of course your call.

 

What do you think the roman books said of Carthage after it was burned down to the ground?

 

As for the latter, frankly I have no idea what you're talking about. The Youtube video was sent to me by a friend and I put it up as a something interesting. Where you got this "9/11 denier" and the "non existence of Al Qaeda" is a mystery to me, as the exact opposite is expressed in the video. I also know next to nothing of the man who did the talking. And I'm certainly not going to use him as evidence of anything.

[Malcador]

Always nice to hear the other side of things in any event.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Always nice to hear the other side of things in any event.

 

Its not the other side, its your side - I haven't mentioned a single local source.

[Malcador]

Well I mean other side as in differing opinion from the commonly held view. Why I didn't write that, well chalk that up to my crappy communication skills.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Well I mean other side as in differing opinion from the commonly held view. Why I didn't write that, well chalk that up to my crappy communication skills.

 

I know exactly what you meant, I just wanted to point out something very important and used your comment for it

 

Boo is very sneaky.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Drowsy Emperor

[Malcador]

The Emperor works in mysterious ways

[Zoraptor]

Sheesh Krezack. I really hope you're just ignorant rather than trolling deliberately with that comparison.

 

Comparison? I made no comparison. What I said is certainly correct, though. If you disagree, could you please explain why?

Read the wikipedia article on the Ustashe. Take a moment to reflect on why you might have been just a tad offensive.

 

And do stop being disingenuous: it's a comparison every bit as much as it would be if I wrote a list of genocidalists you wouldn't want writing history: Nazis, Soviets, Australians (yes, I've been to Tasmania); it's a rhetorical construct designed specifically to associate X with a bunch of negative stuff.

[Drowsy Emperor]

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