d20 single player KotOR 3

[DarthCovenant]

I'm super glad that Star Wars is thinking about the Old Republic series as is inferred by their new MMO. However I have zero interest in playing an MMO. I want a d20 single player (maybe multi-player option, not that picky) Star Wars game. I want a real KotOR 3. I don't even care if it's the Old Republic. It can be Empire, New Republic, what ever. I don't care if Revan, the exile, Luke Skywalker, Starkiller, Kyle Kattarn or one of Han's sons is the main character. Make a new character, expand the genre, whatever it takes. I want to see another d20 Star Wars rpg and I'm sure many others do as well. I can't count how many of my friends bought, played and loved the first two KotOR games, but I can tell you that they would all buy the next one if it was forthcoming. I'm sure that is true of more than enough people to make the production of such a game possible. Most of the people I knew who loved these games weren't all that big of Star Wars fan, but they played because of the games format and story line and they loved it. So Obsidian, where is the next installment? Make it happen and we fans will make it profitable for you.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

It's up to LucasArts and not Obsidian.

[Lord Elvewyn]

I'm super glad that Star Wars is thinking about the Old Republic series as is inferred by their new MMO. However I have zero interest in playing an MMO. I want a d20 single player (maybe multi-player option, not that picky) Star Wars game. I want a real KotOR 3. I don't even care if it's the Old Republic. It can be Empire, New Republic, what ever. I don't care if Revan, the exile, Luke Skywalker, Starkiller, Kyle Kattarn or one of Han's sons is the main character. Make a new character, expand the genre, whatever it takes. I want to see another d20 Star Wars rpg and I'm sure many others do as well. I can't count how many of my friends bought, played and loved the first two KotOR games, but I can tell you that they would all buy the next one if it was forthcoming. I'm sure that is true of more than enough people to make the production of such a game possible. Most of the people I knew who loved these games weren't all that big of Star Wars fan, but they played because of the games format and story line and they loved it. So Obsidian, where is the next installment? Make it happen and we fans will make it profitable for you.

 

It'd be cool to see and I've thought about asking myself but I've heard that the MMO is KotOR 3-X. Any true KotOR 3 would cut into the profit of the MMO so I'm thinking KotOR is dead.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Yep, if you want K3, they want you to subscribe to TOR and pay monthly subscription.

[Togruta]

It'd be cool to see and I've thought about asking myself but I've heard that the MMO is KotOR 3-X. Any true KotOR 3 would cut into the profit of the MMO so I'm thinking KotOR is dead.

 

Unless, we as fans organize a massive boycott of this goddamned MMO... They'll be forced to make Kotor 3 to get their money back.

 

What in the hell makes those people think anyone cares what happened 300 YEARS after the events of the first two Kotor, anyway?

When you have played as Revan or the Exile, what would you want to play as a random, low-ranking Jedi, Sith or bounty hunter?

90% of Kotor fans absolutely loath the idea of a MMO...

 

Do they even have market strategists over at LucasArts?

Edited December 26, 2010 by Togruta

[Thorton_AP]

Unless, we as fans organize a massive boycott of this goddamned MMO... They'll be forced to make Kotor 3 to get their money back.

 

This will only result in the MMO being shut down, not "KOTOR 3"

 

To be perfectly honest, I think it's more likely that there will be a KOTOR 3 if the MMO is successful rather than a failure. If it fails, then the setting will likely be considered dead. If it's successful, then the options for ancillary projects that complement it become possible.

 

 

I'm a KOTOR fan, and I am super excited for The Old Republic by the way.

[Togruta]

I'm a KOTOR fan, and I am super excited for The Old Republic by the way.

 

To be frank, I have to admit that I'm intrigued by the story (the True Sith, the Sith Emperor, the Cold War...) but a MMO is just a fundamentally different experience from a single-player RPG and one I'm not at all interested in...

 

The main problem being that in a MMO, you're a player among hundred of thousands of others, you're not central to the story, you play a tiny role insignificant in the big picture, and have no control over what is happening overall... It's like playing as Kitster (Anakin's childhood friend) in a game adaptation of Star Wars Episode I... Who would want that?

 

And another thing: I don't want to be killed every 15 mins by some geek who spends his whole life playing online games. One great thing about an RPG is that you can feel a sense of accomplishment even if you're not the most experienced/obsessive gamer out there...

 

One thing I just don't get is that it's crystal clear that the OVERWHELMING majority of KOTOR fans don't want this MMO! But BioWare/LucasArts seem determined to slam this truck into the wall...

 

To be perfectly honest, I think it's more likely that there will be a KOTOR 3 if the MMO is successful rather than a failure.

 

It's unlikely since TOR is supposed to explain what happened to Revan/the Exile, definitely closing this storyline...

 

I expect the revelation to unfold like this:

 

<insert name>: So my Lord, what happened to Revan and The Exile?

 

SITH EMPEROR: Oh yeah, those guys... Well they came to me, tried to stop me, so I killed them both right where they stood. YES, YOU HEAR ME: I killed those two characters you came to know and love and identify with in about two seconds, rendering your whole gaming experience meaningless! muhahahahah!!!

Edited December 31, 2010 by Togruta

[alanschu]

I'd say one of the coolest experiences I have had in gaming the past few years is when I constructed my lightsaber on Tython as a Jedi Knight. Everything about it just gave me goosebumps.

 

 

And another thing: I don't want to be killed every 15 mins by some geek who spends his whole life playing online games. One great thing about an RPG is that you can feel a sense of accomplishment even if you're not the most experienced/obsessive gamer out there...

 

You don't need to take part in PvP if you do not want to.

 

To be frank, I have to admit that I'm intrigued by the story (the True Sith, the Sith Emperor, the Cold War...) but a MMO is just a fundamentally different experience from a single-player RPG and one I'm not at all interested in...

 

We're really pushing the story. According to discussion on Gamebreaker.tv, the consensus after many journalists played the game for 6 hours is that TOR is looking to put the RPG back into MMORPG.

 

 

The main problem being that in a MMO, you're a player among hundred of thousands of others, you're not central to the story, you play a tiny role insignificant in the big picture, and have no control over what is happening overall... It's like playing as Kitster (Anakin's childhood friend) in a game adaptation of Star Wars Episode I... Who would want that?

 

The personal stories are still set up, and personal. You're the one that makes the decisions and decides how to proceed through the story. It's not any different than the idea that there are other people out there that played KOTOR 1 and 2. It's entirely possible to experience your own personal story with minimal interaction with other players, and really the only place you'd see them would be as you moved to different story points. Once you get to the actual content parts, the game is set up to allow you to experience the game at your pace without interruption from other players.

 

 

I expect the revelation to unfold like this:

 

<insert name>: So my Lord, what happened to Revan and The Exile?

 

SITH EMPEROR: Oh yeah, those guys... Well they came to me, tried to stop me, so I killed them both right where they stood. YES, YOU HEAR ME: I killed those two characters you came to know and love and identify with in about two seconds, rendering your whole gaming experience meaningless! muhahahahah!!!

 

I'd give us a little more credit than that. As for rendering your whole gaming experience meaningless, I disagree. Nothing takes away from the fact that you played and enjoyed KOTOR 1 and 2.

[The Cow King]

It's quite likely Kotor 3 will be made eventually. Might not be related to the current plot but nevertheless. Just look at Deus Ex 3, Thief 4 etc... sequels to old single player games. Kotor 3 might not be coming in the near future because of TOR, but if the SW universe hasn't died out completely in the future and TOR ends up being a success, it's very likely someone will understand there is profit to be made here. Although I'm personally still disappointed that they had to turn Kotor into a *** MMO with cartoon graphics (it's not like Lucas didn't rape episode 1-3 enough) instead of an actual RPG. Take solace in the fact that if Kotor 3 is made some five years from now, it will most likely be very awesome with gruesome decapitating lightsabre combat.

 

I'm also still confident it's only a matter of time until System Shock 3 will go into production.

 

To be frank, I have to admit that I'm intrigued by the story (the True Sith, the Sith Emperor, the Cold War...) but a MMO is just a fundamentally different experience from a single-player RPG and one I'm not at all interested in...

 

We're really pushing the story. According to discussion on Gamebreaker.tv, the consensus after many journalists played the game for 6 hours is that TOR is looking to put the RPG back into MMORPG.

 

The problem is, it's an MMO, which means retarded anonymous people over the internet influencing your gameplay. Unless I have the ability to completely shut off all other players from my playing experience, ALL immersion from the game will be ruined... guaranteed. Just go play any current MMO in the market and come say otherwise. It's like trying to get immersed into a book while there are ten people in the same room talking about how they got drunk last weekend and **** on the sidewalk.

 

It's either, retarded spam/crap/stuff in the chat.

 

Retarded team mates that are so stupid even a computer AI could do better, or griefing on purpose just to piss someone off over the internet.

 

Cheating, RMT, botting, etc... list goes on. If you try to play with a random team, you will have no time to even read about quests etc... because it's about getting better gear faster for PvP instead of the story.

 

Does TOR have anything to counter that?

 

The only positive side I can see with TOR being MMO is that you get more gameplay hours out of it, but that just means massive PvE grinding or shallow facemelt questing. That and the PvP could probably be fun if it's skill/gameplay based, but I doubt it since it's an MMO.

Edited January 10, 2011 by The Cow King

[alanschu]

ALL immersion from the game will be ruined... guaranteed. Just go play any current MMO in the market and come say otherwise.

 

I play World of Warcraft either solo, or with real-life friends. There was a time when I joined a smaller guild to do some raiding, but that's it. I even play on a PvP server, but my experiences with Cataclysm have been pretty fun and I think it demonstrates that an MMO with a narrative can actually be done. The only thing about WoW is it already had an install base which helped it along. It's possible that out Cataclysm been the "original" WoW it wouldn't be as successful, but I know I greatly prefer Cataclysm. So much that when I hit Outlands it's like hitting a wall because it's "old school" style.

 

I have probably sunk in about 10-15 hours into Cataclysm. I don't even know if I have even looked at General chat during that time. Trade chat is in its own tab and I never look at it either. I fail to understand how some people find it so difficult to not be bothered by other people running around in the game.

 

Retarded team mates that are so stupid even a computer AI could do better, or griefing on purpose just to piss someone off over the internet.

 

When grouping with strangers your mileage will always vary. However, you've taken the worst case scenario and presented it as though it is common place. Even as a soloer in WoW, I have had plenty of groups that have been fine. Easily the majority of them. The problem is completely avoided since a lot of my grouping is done with friends. Even then, I did a random dungeon in Throne of Tides, stated right away that I hadn't run any dungeons in Cata yet, and people told me how to get through each of the fights.

 

The problem is, it's an MMO, which means retarded anonymous people over the internet influencing your gameplay. Unless I have the ability to completely shut off all other players from my playing experience

 

The main story parts are typically held within personal instances, of which the only other people present are those that you have given permission to. Each class has their own story and there

 

Cheating, RMT, botting, etc... list goes on.

 

I don't know how we're going to deal with such things as I'm based in Edmonton, not Austin. On a personal level I've never really had an issue with Real Money Trading in games since, as far as I'm concerned, the only person you cheat by doing so is yourself (not to mention the huge security risks). How prevalent is cheating in other MMO games? The only public ones I have played are WoW and Eve.

 

The only positive side I can see with TOR being MMO is that you get more gameplay hours out of it, but that just means massive PvE grinding or shallow facemelt questing.

 

While the best written content IMO are the class specific stories, there have been some side quests that are very, very well written, complete with different ways to resolve them. They were very fun with a friend too (though I don't know what it'd be like playing with a stranger. Your mileage may vary for that sort of stuff like always).

 

So far I find the game a blast to play with friends. Maybe due to the nature of how the game is presented, those seeking to play for the story won't see much benefit grouping with strangers. But I have 5 close friends that are all stoked to play the game (not counting friends from BioWare directly) and I do think that the multiplayer questing can be a lot of fun with friends. My favorite planet so far is Taris as I liked a lot of the nods back to the first KOTOR.

Edited January 10, 2011 by alanschu

[TTLan]

Hi,

 

Wikieepedia

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Knights_of_...ld_Republic_III

 

March 30 2006

http://www.totalvideogames.com/Star-Wars-T...lic-3-9185.html

 

Obsidian On Star Wars: Knights of The Old Republic 3 News

Submitted by Chris Leyton on March 30 2006 - 21:05

We'd be happy to do KOTOR3 if that's what LucasArts wants us to do...

 

Speaking to TVG about the in-development NeverWinter Nights 2, Obsidian's Feargus Urquhart was also happy to discuss with TVG the current "will it/won't it" situation surrounding LucasArts Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 3.

 

"We have been talking with LucasArts to do KOTOR3 since August 2004 and we hoped to do it since KOTOR2 was done. LucasArts is thinking what they want to do with it and we would happily make KOTOR3, if that's what LucasArts wants to do."

 

So it seems ideas are on the table, whether or not LucasArts will conclude this trilogy faster then they do with others, however, remains to be seen.

 

June 17, 2009

Obsidian still wants a crack at Knights of the Old Republic 3

http://kotor3.net/2009/06/17/obsidian-stil...old-republic-3/

 

 

TTLan

Keeper of the Kotor flame

Kotor 2 HandBook and WalkThrough

[Togruta]

We're really pushing the story.

[...]

I'd give us a little more credit than that.

 

You keep saying "we". Are you one of the people who developed this game?

 

None of us are saying that TOR will suck in itself... It's probably gonna be a good game. We're only saying that it's not what we wanted. We expected a RPG that is a actual sequel to Kotor 1&2, not a MMO taking place 300 years that has a vague relation to it. Personally, I envisioned a game where Revan would again be the main character, with possibly the Exile as an NPC and second-in-command and where they would battle and defeat the True Sith.

Imagine if instead of making Return of the Jedi, they'd made a movie 300 years in the future where the defeat of the Emperor, Luke's ascension to the rank of Jedi Knight and the redemption of Anakin would only have been revealed through an holocron or something.

 

There are many polls over the Internet that demonstrate that a clear majority of fans would choose Kotor 3 over TOR anyday. Don't the wishes of your fans mean anything to you?

A lot of us feel betrayed, robbed and despised as a result.

 

Oh yeah and there's this little thing about paying 15

[Thorton_AP]

You keep saying "we". Are you one of the people who developed this game?

 

alanschu works for BioWare.

 

 

Imagine if instead of making Return of the Jedi, they'd made a movie 300 years in the future where the defeat of the Emperor, Luke's ascension to the rank of Jedi Knight and the redemption of Anakin would only have been revealed through an holocron or something.

 

I think your point would have a bit more merit if BioWare was involved in making both of the games. From what I know, BioWare was happy with just the single KOTOR game.

 

 

There are many polls over the Internet that demonstrate that a clear majority of fans would choose Kotor 3 over TOR anyday. Don't the wishes of your fans mean anything to you?

A lot of us feel betrayed, robbed and despised as a result.

 

There's a lot of people looking forward to TOR as well (myself included). The TOR forums blast along at a high rate, and it's not made up mostly of people bitching about the game. Internet polls are unreliable at best, and I'm skeptical that your sample size is representative. The reality of the situation is most likely that the clear majority of KOTOR fans are indifferent, and have long since carried on with their lives.

 

 

The thing I don't like is that people see it as TOR instead of KOTOR 3. If you don't want to play TOR, that's fine, but KOTOR 3 was never in the works by BioWare (and was long canceled by the in house Lucas team).

 

Oh yeah and there's this little thing about paying 15

[Togruta]

There's a lot of people looking forward to TOR as well (myself included). The TOR forums blast along at a high rate, and it's not made up mostly of people bitching about the game. Internet polls are unreliable at best, and I'm skeptical that your sample size is representative. The reality of the situation is most likely that the clear majority of KOTOR fans are indifferent, and have long since carried on with their lives.

 

There are dozens of forums debating this also, and still the overwhelming majority are frustrated to see TOR replace Kotor 3 (because it did). Saying that my sample size is not representative is a bit dishonest.

 

So, will I be able to live with Kotor 3 not being made? Of course, but it definitely leaves an unfinished feeling.

If you don't want to play TOR, that's fine, but KOTOR 3 was never in the works by BioWare (and was long canceled by the in house Lucas team).

As a matter of fact it was:

 

"According to designer John Stafford, "we got quite a bit of traction... we wrote a story, designed most of the environments/worlds, and many of the quests, characters, and items." However, when the game was close to starting development, LucasArts hit a difficult period in the company's history which led to the project being canceled."

 

Ah indeed. If TOR was free to play (just the upfront box cost), would it even be an issue then?

 

Let's say the price is but an addition to the list of cons...

Like I said, I'll play TOR, because a game that's even remotely related to Kotor is better than nothing.

[Thorton_AP]

As a matter of fact it was:

 

"According to designer John Stafford, "we got quite a bit of traction... we wrote a story, designed most of the environments/worlds, and many of the quests, characters, and items." However, when the game was close to starting development, LucasArts hit a difficult period in the company's history which led to the project being canceled."

 

Yes I know. I said that it was canceled by the in house Lucas team.

 

KOTOR 3 wasn't in development by BioWare.

 

 

 

There are dozens of forums debating this also, and still the overwhelming majority are frustrated to see TOR replace Kotor 3 (because it did). Saying that my sample size is not representative is a bit dishonest.

 

Most people don't post on internet forums in general.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Thorton_AP

[MalaksBane]

... Any true KotOR 3 would cut into the profit of the MMO so I'm thinking KotOR is dead. ...

 

They are different beasts, with different types of players, as witnessed by this discussion.

 

I wouldn't mind a story-driven, instanced Star Wars MMO a la Guildwars (with a one time fee like Guildwars), but anything that involves paying every month to be able to mindlessly grind for more levels as is the hallmark of regular MMO is wasted on me.

 

But $100 per year per player with minimal investmenst is probably too good to pass up for LA.

 

We're really pushing the story. According to discussion on Gamebreaker.tv, the consensus after many journalists played the game for 6 hours is that TOR is looking to put the RPG back into MMORPG.

 

Sounds good. Lets hope, afterall it's Bioware developping it. Keeping an ongoing game interesting is far more challenging then creating one with fix starting and ending points. Can you make an MMO interesting enough to warrant the

 

Oh, lets ask it timely, "Can we have heroes? Better yet, all hero parties?"

 

When grouping with strangers your mileage will always vary. However, you've taken the worst case scenario and presented it as though it is common place.

 

The problem with PuGs is that diferent people have (a) different goals and motivations and (b) different ways of going for them. Get everyone aligned, or at least informed and problems are far less.

Playing with real players rather then AI henchman can be far more rewarding and/or far more frustrating.

 

Oh yeah and there's this little thing about paying 15

[Foamhead]

Alan,

 

Please tell me where you disagree but here is my 2 cents...

 

Bioware has succeeding in piquing my interest in this game. What I have asked on Biowares forums and gotten no answer to is this:

 

1. You guys claim that players can make choices and NPC's respond yadda yadda yadda...How do you provide all this vaunted interactivity without affecting the other players? If the answer is that each player get his or her own instance then is this an MMORPG or a massively single player online role playing game? Because I fail to see how a player can have meaningful interactivity in a persistent world without harming the experience of another.

 

2. I hate MMORPG's with a passion. I hate being manipulated and I have no addictive personality what so ever. I do dabble in WOW but I have one level 80 and it took me three years to get it there. That is how little I play. I hate level grinding, I hate time sinks, and I hate having nothing to do but kill things. I am not into dungeon crawls which is all these MMORPG's are. I am also a full time student and do not have the time nor inclination to do these ridiculous raids that require an eight hour time commitment and belonging to a guild. I don't mean to put down anyone here who does these things but frankly, I have a life, and do not consider spending it on a computer a productive use of my little free time.

 

What does The Old Republic do differently for people like me who do not like mindless grinds and lengthy tedious raiding?

 

I remember WOW how I would die and have to navigate the massive roadblocks of mountains and other barricades Blizzard set up between me and my corpse just so I could play again. I pay 20 bucks a month to play WOW not a bleeping maze. If your game sucks so bad that your company needs to purposely waste a players time in order to keep them playing then you have a pretty crappy game IMHO. I also remember my disappointment upon reaching level 80 in WOW and discovering that was all. There was nothing else to do but grind away reputation or emblems. What does TOR do differently so I have a reason to play when I can no longer level up?

 

3. You say you have NPC's, does that mean I have character interaction and romances and all that stuff that I love about RPG's? If so how is that handled?

 

4. What mechanisms are in place so that all classes are fun? Because this is a Star Wars game and you can bet your bippy there will be a glut of Force users...especially Sith.

 

I actually have started following this game with interest because if the game is the single player experience that Bioware seems to be implying...and it really is a game and not a hack slash level grind I will buy it. But not until I know what I am investing in.

 

I'd say one of the coolest experiences I have had in gaming the past few years is when I constructed my lightsaber on Tython as a Jedi Knight. Everything about it just gave me goosebumps.

 

 

And another thing: I don't want to be killed every 15 mins by some geek who spends his whole life playing online games. One great thing about an RPG is that you can feel a sense of accomplishment even if you're not the most experienced/obsessive gamer out there...

 

You don't need to take part in PvP if you do not want to.

 

To be frank, I have to admit that I'm intrigued by the story (the True Sith, the Sith Emperor, the Cold War...) but a MMO is just a fundamentally different experience from a single-player RPG and one I'm not at all interested in...

 

We're really pushing the story. According to discussion on Gamebreaker.tv, the consensus after many journalists played the game for 6 hours is that TOR is looking to put the RPG back into MMORPG.

 

 

The main problem being that in a MMO, you're a player among hundred of thousands of others, you're not central to the story, you play a tiny role insignificant in the big picture, and have no control over what is happening overall... It's like playing as Kitster (Anakin's childhood friend) in a game adaptation of Star Wars Episode I... Who would want that?

 

The personal stories are still set up, and personal. You're the one that makes the decisions and decides how to proceed through the story. It's not any different than the idea that there are other people out there that played KOTOR 1 and 2. It's entirely possible to experience your own personal story with minimal interaction with other players, and really the only place you'd see them would be as you moved to different story points. Once you get to the actual content parts, the game is set up to allow you to experience the game at your pace without interruption from other players.

 

 

I expect the revelation to unfold like this:

 

<insert name>: So my Lord, what happened to Revan and The Exile?

 

SITH EMPEROR: Oh yeah, those guys... Well they came to me, tried to stop me, so I killed them both right where they stood. YES, YOU HEAR ME: I killed those two characters you came to know and love and identify with in about two seconds, rendering your whole gaming experience meaningless! muhahahahah!!!

 

I'd give us a little more credit than that. As for rendering your whole gaming experience meaningless, I disagree. Nothing takes away from the fact that you played and enjoyed KOTOR 1 and 2.

Edited February 1, 2011 by Foamhead

[Togruta]

You know, Alan works for BioWare, so he's trying to sell his game...

 

Whatever argument you throw at him, he'll just keep telling you that making The Old Republic instead of KotOR 3 was the best idea in the history of mankind...

[alanschu]

1. You guys claim that players can make choices and NPC's respond yadda yadda yadda...How do you provide all this vaunted interactivity without affecting the other players? If the answer is that each player get his or her own instance then is this an MMORPG or a massively single player online role playing game? Because I fail to see how a player can have meaningful interactivity in a persistent world without harming the experience of another.

 

Most of the story based stuff tends to be in localized instances, so only you would actually be able to see it. I haven't had a chance to play much lately (I'm on DA2 and we're finishing that up right now), and I would say that I've only been probably 1/2 or 2/3s of the way through "Act 1." As a result I probably haven't had a chance to see too much regarding reactivity. There have been people in my personal quests that I could have killed but didn't, and so forth, so I do hope that they have a chance of popping in at a later time. If not I think it'd be a wasted opportunity. For more general quests, I don't think there can be too much reactivity. You can proceed through some of them in different ways, however, which is neat. I find these side quests range from standard MMO stuff (go kill this guy for me), but I have had some that I actually enjoyed the writing. Without spoiling too much, I bumped into a situation where my friend and I needed to retrieve something, and when I found the guy that had it, it turns out he wasn't so bad after all and while I had the option to just kill him and take it, he convinced me that doing so would be a greater evil in the long run, and in exchange for his life he did point me to an alternative source for what I was looking for. There was some fun dialogue to be had with that one. But I wouldn't expect that to have too much reactivity though. As to whether or not it's a "massively single player online RPG" or "MMORPG" I think the goal is that people can play the game either way and still enjoy it.

 

One of the things I dislike about MMOs is their static nature, but we're seeing attempts by several companies to give the player the idea that what they are doing has some impact in the world. WoW's old world update does an excellent job of this in my opinion. The landscape of Gilneas, for example, actively changes as a result of quests you do in the Worgen starting area. This is done with phasing and I think that Blizzard does it very well. I can (and have) happily solo'd through the restored old world and very much enjoyed it. I basically play WoW as a light RPG with some fun combat that happens to have other people running around in the game for extra flavour as well as grouping possibilities. I don't think the idea of a "MMORPG" or "massively single player online RPG" are necessarily mutually exclusive. I don't have time to raid, so the majority of group content I experience in WoW is with one or two friends, which is a lot of fun.

 

 

2. I hate MMORPG's with a passion. I hate being manipulated and I have no addictive personality what so ever. I do dabble in WOW but I have one level 80 and it took me three years to get it there. That is how little I play. I hate level grinding, I hate time sinks, and I hate having nothing to do but kill things. I am not into dungeon crawls which is all these MMORPG's are. I am also a full time student and do not have the time nor inclination to do these ridiculous raids that require an eight hour time commitment and belonging to a guild. I don't mean to put down anyone here who does these things but frankly, I have a life, and do not consider spending it on a computer a productive use of my little free time.

 

90% of my game experience has just been playing through the content with a friend of mine, so I can't necessarily answer these questions in as much depth as you may like. I do enjoy the narrative, and I think a strength of TOR is that it may provide a more interesting solo/play with a friend type experience. Maybe to a fault for "randomly pugging" type stuff. There are those that enjoy just playing WoW by themselves (I think the Cataclysms changes have made the narrative WAAAY better and playing a large scale game by yourself a ton more interesting). With the time restrictions you have, hopefully some sort of trial will become available for you to see if TOR's solo narrative is your cup of tea. I know we are planning on having end game raiding content, but by the same token, there was a Flashpoint (very similar to a WoW dungeon) that I hit at level 10 that balances itself based upon your party size, so I was able to run it both with a friend, as well as in one of my solo playthroughs. I was able to make choices in the Flashpoint, though they also seem to be the most interesting multiplayer content I have experienced, so I don't know how much reactivity there can be because of the MMO nature of the game.

 

There was nothing else to do but grind away reputation or emblems. What does TOR do differently so I have a reason to play when I can no longer level up?

 

In terms of what you can do with a high level character, I unfortunately don't really know. All I have heard is that end game raiding will be in, but I don't know what (if any) plans are in store for the more solo type. It could be that, like a standard RPG, once you hit the end of that story, it's kind of "the end" for that character. Since each character class has it's own unique personal story though, I'm hoping the game is replayable enough to go through at least 8 times (one for each character). Side quest stuff will be the same, which may hinder doing this. How viable this is will ultimately depend on a combination of how well written the side quests are, as well as how much variation there is available. Like many games, the side quests tend to be in the region (or along the way) for the personal quests, which might also help. I have heard some interesting ideas, but I cannot comment on them as I don't know if they will ultimately make it into the game. Sorry

 

You say you have NPC's, does that mean I have character interaction and romances and all that stuff that I love about RPG's? If so how is that handled?

 

There are joinable NPCs, and I know that some of them can be romanced. My main character is a Jedi Knight, and I picked up 2 NPCs along my story (I have a third that seems to have come with my ship. I'm not sure if that's by design or not. The only interaction I have ever seen from him is when he lets me know someone is calling me while i'm on my ship).

 

 

What mechanisms are in place so that all classes are fun? Because this is a Star Wars game and you can bet your bippy there will be a glut of Force users...especially Sith.

 

This is a hard one to really say because there's not much for me to say aside from "I like the other classes too." I'm hoping the unique stories really help in this regard. My favourite story so far as been the Imperial Agent. I also enjoy the Republic Trooper's story. I actually like the close up abilities of the ranged classes, particularly enjoying the cheap kick followed by the pistol whip with the Scoundrel. I'd have to sit down and play with one of them again. A couple months ago we got access to a more permanent test server that let us have access to more content, and it just happened that I started playing a Jedi Knight at that time. Since I wanted to get past the first couple planets, I've stuck with him.

 

 

 

Whatever argument you throw at him, he'll just keep telling you that making The Old Republic instead of KotOR 3 was the best idea in the history of mankind...

 

I haven't made any such statements, and in fact would go on the record saying I would love to see a KOTOR 3 get made. That said, even prior to being hired by BioWare I still had no issue with TOR being made. Simply because it's not one type of game that I would like, does not mean that I cannot enjoy TOR for what it is. You can see examples of this on this forum with respect to games like Fallout. Fallout 1/2 are some of my favourite games of all time, and even though Bethesda wasn't making Fallout 3 in any way like the first two, I still wanted FO3 to be a fun game for what it was because I enjoy playing fun games. A game that gets released that sucks does me no good, and it's not like if FO3 tanked that anyone was going to make a "real" Fallout 3 in the vein of the first two games.

 

 

Speaking as a fan for a moment, I have always been very surprised why so many fans think BioWare should step up to the plate and make KOTOR 3. BioWare made KOTOR 1, which in and of itself was a self contained story that wrapped itself up with no loose ends. Obsidian Entertainment made the sequel, and due to the nature of it's ending, has a lot of unanswered questions. Given that these questions aren't even posed by BioWare, it seems like a strange request to demand that BioWare take the story arc that went in a direction set by a different company, and wrap up all the unanswered questions that it poses. Imagine you write a story, then I come along and make a sequel to it that has a cliffhanger, and now the fans demand that you wrap up the cliffhanger that I created. It'd be a really daunting task and I think would pose a lot of additional restrictions on whichever company attempts to wrap it up, because people are going to demand answers to their very specific questions. One of the strengths of KOTOR (and even KOTOR 2) is that it had the freedom to not be bound by the other Star Wars stories because it was set so far in the past. KOTOR 3 doesn't have that luxury, and if it were to be made, I would think the best company to do it would be Obsidian Entertainment.

Edited February 9, 2011 by alanschu

[Togruta]

Speaking as a fan for a moment, I have always been very surprised why so many fans think BioWare should step up to the plate and make KOTOR 3. BioWare made KOTOR 1, which in and of itself was a self contained story that wrapped itself up with no loose ends. Obsidian Entertainment made the sequel, and due to the nature of it's ending, has a lot of unanswered questions. Given that these questions aren't even posed by BioWare, it seems like a strange request to demand that BioWare take the story arc that went in a direction set by a different company, and wrap up all the unanswered questions that it poses. Imagine you write a story, then I come along and make a sequel to it that has a cliffhanger, and now the fans demand that you wrap up the cliffhanger that I created. It'd be a really daunting task and I think would pose a lot of additional restrictions on whichever company attempts to wrap it up, because people are going to demand answers to their very specific questions. One of the strengths of KOTOR (and even KOTOR 2) is that it had the freedom to not be bound by the other Star Wars stories because it was set so far in the past. KOTOR 3 doesn't have that luxury, and if it were to be made, I would think the best company to do it would be Obsidian Entertainment.

 

Well, I can agree with you on that... Personally, it never thought it was necessarily up to BioWare to develop KotOR3... Indeed, from an artistic point of view, it would make more sense for it to be made by Obsidian since it's a follow up of the game they created and would answer the questions they raised. And also because I expected KotOR 3 to have the same gloomy atmosphere and hopelessness that characterised K2.

 

THAT SAID, this argument is rendered kinda irrelevant by the fact that you produced a sequel to KotOR 2 in the form of The Old Republic. One that is completely based on storylines introduced in KotOR 2: the True Sith, Revan's disappearance in the Unknown Regions.

 

Had BioWare simply said: "KotOR 2 introduced story arc that we are not responsible for and it's not up to us to finish what they started", most fans would have accepted that and instead would have harrassed Obsidian until they produced the sequel (which I'm sure that they would have eventually).

 

By making TOR, they have 1). not given us the direct sequel that we wanted, one with Revan and the Exile being central characters and ALIVE;

2). destroyed any chance of us ever seeing that sequel being made by anyone, by still bringing K2's storyline to a conclusion, but not in the way we expected.

Edited February 10, 2011 by Togruta

[Thorton_AP]

Eh, I don't know if fans would have been okay with "We're ignoring KOTOR 2 outright." I especially don't know if Lucas and all the messed up system they have for canon would have been okay with it.

 

I wouldn't have liked it if they just ignored it, personally. Then wtf was the point? And I think Lucasarts/film/whatever has engrained it into the actual lore of the game, so BioWare wouldn't be able to just out and out ignore it.

 

I'm curious how much of the game will touch on Revan and the Exile's history. 500 years ago is kinda old news type stuff. Having said that, I don't think that there would have been a KOTOR 3 otherwise, so IMO I don't understand why so many are up in arms. It reminds me a lot of the Fallout fans getting all upset about Fallout 3, even though the "true" Fallout 3 they all wanted clearly wasn't going to be made.

[Wizz]

I'm curious how much of the game will touch on Revan and the Exile's history.

 

Zombi-Revan will be raid-boss.

 

MMO will never replace single rpg, because it will never provide such non-linear story and immersion. Also main story is always weak in MMO, I know Bioware tries to broke this stereotype but now it's just a words.

 

I've waited KOTOR3 five years and I can wait another five. And I want it to be made by Obsidian, screw that cinematic and romance-oriented stories.

[Driddle]

I'm curious how much of the game will touch on Revan and the Exile's history.

 

Zombi-Revan will be raid-boss.

 

MMO will never replace single rpg, because it will never provide such non-linear story and immersion. Also main story is always weak in MMO, I know Bioware tries to broke this stereotype but now it's just a words.

 

I've waited KOTOR3 five years and I can wait another five. And I want it to be made by Obsidian, screw that cinematic and romance-oriented stories.

 

Can you please just stop complaining. This Bioware employee has been nothing but straight forward and honest with you. Yes the game is not exactly what KoTOR fans (myself included) wanted. Lets be honest though, this is Bioware we are talking about, the original creators of KoTOR as well as Mass Effect, and the fact that you want Obsidian to make a potential KoTOR 3 is utterly ridiculous. The last thing I want is for the game I have waited on probably ten years at the minimum when it is made (because lets be honest it probably will happen eventually) and finally released, is for the game to suck. KoTOR 3 is on the same track as Starcraft 2 was, it just needs to wait for that right moment to come out with the original creators behind it. No offense to Obsidian but I would rather have a KoTOR developed by Bioware in 5 years then a game by Obsidian tomorrow. Not to insult Obsidian but RPG's are what Bioware does, and considering that KoTOR 3 would have to made from scratch unlike KoTOR 2 which they still in the eyes of many, managed to **** up compared to the original. I would want no one but Bioware on the case, and if that means I have to wait so be it. I would trust no other company in ushering KoTOR 3 in with a all new engine and game interface, because as you should remember, they made it in the first place. If anything you should hate Obsidian and Lucasarts for locking up the KoTOR series in furthering the plot of Revan in the first place. Lucasarts did what they do best by ruining something perfectly good by trying to suck all the money out of it possible when they sold to Obsidian. Obsidian then made a game with a story line that any company attempting to make a game now has to follow inorder to continue the series. Whereas otherwise we could have had all new stories (and perhaps KoTOR 4,5,6 already) from other periods in the timeline of the Starwars universe. Now because of the open-ended plot of KoTOR 2 if they made such a sequel fans like you would jump all over the message boards bashing them for not finishing what they started when the reality is they didn't start it.

 

I for one am incredibly pleased that Bioware is making an MMO because if there is one company I trust to make it well it is Bioware. You must remember that is as I said before "it's what they do". I'm not saying I would rather have this over KoTOR three because I wouldn't, and your right it probably would have saved me countless hours of my life that I'm now going to waste on TOR. However, I'm happy just to have some RPG to play in the Starwars universe at all. So I'll take what I can get and consider TOR but a distraction until the game I really want is developed by the company it rightfully should be(no offense Obsidian) and if Bioware decides not to make it then just release a book with Revan and the Exiles story and you can just read that because the series will be dead to me without Bioware at the helm.

[Driddle]

h

Edited April 1, 2011 by Driddle

[SummerDay]

I'm sorry, but I have never understood all this love for BioWare. I didn't think KotOR was all that great, could see that "twist" coming from a mile away. NWN, shrug. Mass Effect, for me was OK, at least there was some story there, but ME2...left me not caring a fig about how the "trilogy" ends. Probably due to my advanced age, I have never and will never play an MMO, any MMO.

 

IMO, there are some shooters that have better stories than what BioWare comes up with.