Physics is bloody fascinating - BEC made out of photons!

[Humodour]

So somehow those crazy Germans have managed to create a BEC/Bose-Einstein-Condensate/Superatom out of not atoms, but photons! Light!

 

http://science.slashdot.org/story/10/11/26...e-Using-Photons

 

If there was any doubt about the wave-particle duality this certainly must crush those doubts.

 

Nature article the Slashdot link is based on: http://www.nature.com/news/2010/101124/ful...s.2010.630.html

 

Wiki description of BECs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose%E2%80%93...tein_condensate

[Orogun01]

Still too far away for any practical application but it's a nice find. Great touch using dye.

Edited November 27, 2010 by Orogun01

[Pidesco]

That's pretty awesome.

[Humodour]

Still too far away for any practical application but it's a nice find. Great touch using dye.

 

Pffft, that's what they said about light amplification via stimulated emission of radiation (also known as LASER)!

 

From the Nature article:

 

Matthias Weidem

Edited November 27, 2010 by Krezack

[GreasyDogMeat]

So... does this mean we will finally get our laser guns?

[Humodour]

So... does this mean we will finally get our laser guns?

 

Maybe! Here's a video of the experiment in action:

 

It's pretty cool.

Edited November 27, 2010 by Krezack

[Orogun01]

Still too far away for any practical application but it's a nice find. Great touch using dye.

 

Pffft, that's what they said about light amplification via stimulated emission of radiation (also known as LASER)!

 

From the Nature article:

 

Matthias Weidem

[Humodour]

Quantum theories in general have yielded very little applications compared to other discoveries and the amount of time since it's discovery.

 

That is absolute bull****. USB drives use quantum tunnelling for smeg's sake and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a decent solar array that didn't rely on quantum-mechanical discoveries. Have you ever heard of nanotechnology or materials science? Do you understand the basis of modern polymer science (e.g. conductive polymers via quantum decoherence)? Or chip design? Do you know why graphene is important to tech companies (quantum Hall effect)? Or what an ultracapacitor is? What about OLED's - super LED's which exist because we are able to understand excitons thanks to QM? And what about the scanning tunnelling microscope developed in 1981 (again, quantum tunnelling)? Superconductor science ring any bells?

 

In fact, the basis of lasers is raising electrons into higher quantum states. Lasers rely on a knowledge of quantum mechanics which Einstein first detailed in his work "On the Quantum Theory of Radiation".

 

"Very little applications" my arse. If you want to use a modern computer, many somebodies out there need to understand QM intimately.

Edited November 27, 2010 by Krezack

[Rostere]

Quantum theories in general have yielded very little applications compared to other discoveries and the amount of time since it's discovery.

 

WTF!?

[Humodour]

A very decent technical summary for laymen of this phenomena and the ingenious nature of their experiment is here: http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-11-german...per-photon.html

[Orogun01]

Quantum theories in general have yielded very little applications compared to other discoveries and the amount of time since it's discovery.

 

That is absolute bull****. USB drives use quantum tunnelling for smeg's sake and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a decent solar array that didn't rely on quantum-mechanical discoveries. Have you ever heard of nanotechnology or materials science? Do you understand the basis of modern polymer science (e.g. conductive polymers via quantum decoherence)? Or chip design? Do you know why graphene is important to tech companies (quantum Hall effect)? Or what an ultracapacitor is? What about OLED's - super LED's which exist because we are able to understand excitons thanks to QM? And what about the scanning tunnelling microscope developed in 1981 (again, quantum tunnelling)? Superconductor science ring any bells?

 

In fact, the basis of lasers is raising electrons into higher quantum states. Lasers rely on a knowledge of quantum mechanics which Einstein first detailed in his work "On the Quantum Theory of Radiation".

 

"Very little applications" my arse. If you want to use a modern computer, many somebodies out there need to understand QM intimately.

Very recent inventions, what i'm talking about it's the gap between the formulation of quantum mechanics and the practical applications. What was it, like 20 years or so? So I expect to see this yield fruit in the next 20 years.

 

Also, let's face it; the vast potential of these fields remains yet untapped.

Edited November 27, 2010 by Orogun01

[Gorth]

Time to start a support group for Photons.

 

So, who's for stopping cruel and inhuman experiments on innocent photons, trapping them between mirrors, exposing them to extreme temperatures and poking them, just to see what happens?

 

Photons are meant to be free!

 

Support EPIC (Ethical Photon Investigation Curriculum)

[Humodour]

Quantum theories in general have yielded very little applications compared to other discoveries and the amount of time since it's discovery.

 

That is absolute bull****. USB drives use quantum tunnelling for smeg's sake and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a decent solar array that didn't rely on quantum-mechanical discoveries. Have you ever heard of nanotechnology or materials science? Do you understand the basis of modern polymer science (e.g. conductive polymers via quantum decoherence)? Or chip design? Do you know why graphene is important to tech companies (quantum Hall effect)? Or what an ultracapacitor is? What about OLED's - super LED's which exist because we are able to understand excitons thanks to QM? And what about the scanning tunnelling microscope developed in 1981 (again, quantum tunnelling)? Superconductor science ring any bells?

 

In fact, the basis of lasers is raising electrons into higher quantum states. Lasers rely on a knowledge of quantum mechanics which Einstein first detailed in his work "On the Quantum Theory of Radiation".

 

"Very little applications" my arse. If you want to use a modern computer, many somebodies out there need to understand QM intimately.

Very recent inventions, what i'm talking about it's the gap between the formulation of quantum mechanics and the practical applications. What was it, like 20 years or so? So I expect to see this yield fruit in the next 20 years.

 

Also, let's face it; the vast potential of these fields remains yet untapped.

 

This post I agree with entirely. Still, back to your previous post: 20 or 30 years and quantum mechanics has become vital to the smooth operation of the entire world? I'd say that's MORE applications in the amount of time since it's discovery than pretty much any other invention or idea, and it reinforces my belief (and original point) that a technology like this superphoton experiment could become commercialised and mainstream very rapidly.

 

We could not possibly have this information (and hence economic) golden age without quantum mechanics. The field of chemistry alone is pretty much entirely derived from quantum mechanics.

 

I'd write an essay on this but somebody beat me to it: http://www.physics.ucla.edu/~ianb/history/

Edited November 27, 2010 by Krezack

[Orogun01]

This post I agree with entirely. Still, back to your previous post: 20 or 30 years and quantum mechanics has become vital to the smooth operation of the entire world? I'd say that's MORE applications in the amount of time since it's discovery than pretty much any other invention or idea, and it reinforces my belief (and original point) that a technology like this superphoton experiment could become commercialised and mainstream very rapidly.

 

We could not possibly have this information (and hence economic) golden age without quantum mechanics. The field of chemistry alone is pretty much entirely derived from quantum mechanics.

 

I'd write an essay on this but somebody beat me to it: http://www.physics.ucla.edu/~ianb/history/

I agree, my disappointment comes with the speed of advancement on these fields. Probably because they are more unconventional than any other, as we become more dexterous on translating these finds into practical applications we may see faster development. The problem is that the layman usually doesn't have an advanced degree on physics, which leaves only a small amount of people with the knowledge to invent using these discoveries. As opposed to electricity who Edison rode to glory.

Technology is leaving us behind.

[I want teh kotor 3]

Nice. So apparently the fact that the exclusion principle doesn't apply to photons is irrelevant. That's... interesting, to say the least.

[Humodour]

Nice. So apparently the fact that the exclusion principle doesn't apply to photons is irrelevant. That's... interesting, to say the least.

 

It's not irrelevant at all - it's a very important property. It is the basis of lasers (basically putting multiple photons in the same spot), and it is also what allows us to form a BEC from photons. A photon is a boson and a Bose-Einstein condensate can only occur with particles which adhere to Bose statistics (that is: bosons). That is: ONLY particles which don't obey Pauli's Exclusion Principle can form BECs.

 

What you're going to ask me next is: how on earth can atoms form a BEC then, since they're not like light, they're not bosons? Weeeeell... some atoms are fermions (Helium-3) and some ARE like light in a way - they are bosons (Helium-4). It depends entirely on their spin, which is the sum of the spin of the constituent particles (electrons, protons, neutrons etc all have half-spin). So bosonic atoms can form a BEC easily. But fermions can even form a BEC because they become coupled in pairs and thus become bosons as their spin becomes an integer when added together!

 

The trick with atoms is you need temperatures as close to absolute zero as possible or the particles are too energetic and thus move too much and cannot occupy the same wavelength (I believe - I'm a bit rusty on waves).

 

This is a related and interesting technology - the atom laser: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom_laser

[Humodour]

Unfortunately because of the board's silly edit timeout limit I have to make a new post.

 

Basically I wanted to add NASA's great article on fermionic condensates (BECs were created in 1995, and fermionic condensates are even newer): http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/technolog...2feb_fermi.html

Edited November 28, 2010 by Krezack

[I want teh kotor 3]

Nice. So apparently the fact that the exclusion principle doesn't apply to photons is irrelevant. That's... interesting, to say the least.

 

It's not irrelevant at all - it's a very important property. It is the basis of lasers (basically putting multiple photons in the same spot), and it is also what allows us to form a BEC from photons. A photon is a boson and a Bose-Einstein condensate can only occur with particles which adhere to Bose statistics (that is: bosons). That is: ONLY particles which don't obey Pauli's Exclusion Principle can form BECs.

 

What you're going to ask me next is: how on earth can atoms form a BEC then, since they're not like light, they're not bosons? Weeeeell... some atoms are fermions (Helium-3) and some ARE like light in a way - they are bosons (Helium-4). It depends entirely on their spin, which is the sum of the spin of the constituent particles (electrons, protons, neutrons etc all have half-spin). So bosonic atoms can form a BEC easily. But fermions can even form a BEC because they become coupled in pairs and thus become bosons as their spin becomes an integer when added together!

 

The trick with atoms is you need temperatures as close to absolute zero as possible or the particles are too energetic and thus move too much and cannot occupy the same wavelength (I believe - I'm a bit rusty on waves).

 

I thought it was the other way around. Not quite sure why; it makes much more sense w/ bosons...

 

 

Unfortunately because of the board's silly edit timeout limit I have to make a new post.

 

Basically I wanted to add NASA's great article on fermionic condensates (BECs were created in 1995, and fermionic condensates are even newer): http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/technolog...2feb_fermi.html

 

And this is why physics is without a doubt the most interesting thing ever...