Moscow metro bombing

[vault_overseer]

I'd like to point out that there are plenty of young Russians, who are not as daftly oblivious to the facts as our prime example here.

 

And to Obyknven, are you a member of Nashi or Molodaya Gvardia, by any chance? If not, you should join, they need gullible people.

[Zoraptor]

The resources thing is a perfectly valid view- the 'west' (more properly the west's companies) was perfectly happy to take all sorts of resources for a song and a quick backhander to the half dozen or so people who owned most of Russia in the 90s and the russian government and people could go starve for all they cared. Putin may be an authoritarian and is certainly no Gandhi, but he's so much better than Yeltsin it isn't funny. It's also sad because Russia probably had a good chance of actually becoming a pluralist liberal democracy (or as close as any other western country manages) if it had had a bit of support rather than suspicion, derision and a wholesale rush to grab as much stuff as possible for the least cost possible. But whatever blame the west may get is nothing compared to Yeltsin and the gross stupidity of his rush to sell everything as cheap as possible without so much as a second of thought.

 

U.S. and other countries, simply want to steal our resources. We do not want to give. For that they hate us.

It's not that we hate you because "you don't want to give" -- it's that doing crazy **** like cutting off all of Eastern Europe's natural gas supply during winter to put political pressure on your increasingly western-leaning Ukrainian neighbors tends to sit badly with folks.

While you would not have got the impression from the western media there was no doubt that (1) Ukraine was not paying its bills and had not been for years, (2) was understating the amount it was using/ siphoning other country's supplies and (3) had a large discount in the first place. In any case Yuchenko was a lame duck long before then- his position was terminal as soon as he had fallen out with Tymoshenko.

[213374U]

I was referring to the Russians, obviously not you.

We do not want your Butthurt.

Er, yes. In an unprecedented act of kindness, I'm going to play nice and point you in the right direction...

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=butthurt

 

 

U.S. and other countries, simply want to steal our resources. We do not want to give. For that they hate us.

It's not that we hate you because "you don't want to give" -- it's that doing crazy **** like cutting off all of Eastern Europe's natural gas supply during winter to put political pressure on your increasingly western-leaning Ukrainian neighbors tends to sit badly with folks.

While you would not have got the impression from the western media there was no doubt that (1) Ukraine was not paying its bills and had not been for years, (2) was understating the amount it was using/ siphoning other country's supplies and (3) had a large discount in the first place. In any case Yuchenko was a lame duck long before then- his position was terminal as soon as he had fallen out with Tymoshenko.

Oh, of course. Russia had a perfectly legitimate right to update the prices of their gas to Ukrainie, and to try and put a stop to the gas theft. But in my eyes that was a convenient excuse to flex their muscle a bit, and show that one of the pillars of their newfound international influence is energy dependency in the West.

 

I'm not trying to paint the Ukrainians exclusively as victims, here. But no matter how you look at it, those antics aren't good for making friends. Does Russia need friends, or just customers?

 

Obviously, I'm not going to dispute Putin's efficiency, especially when compared to that drunken clown predecessor of his. But the amount of power held by the FSB is something that would make me feel very uncomfortable if I lived in Russia. And I didn't even know about conviction rates, heh.

[Walsingham]

How are those SAM sales to Iran going, btw?

 

Yes, the S-300s you chaps are selling to the regime you claim can be dealt with best by sanctions...

[obyknven]

poor American pilots! don't fly over Iran >:3

Edited April 5, 2010 by obyknven

[vault_overseer]

That's second time you have ignored my question.

 

EDIT: For Obyknven, with love: http://esquire.ru/reklama/

 

Explanation: Russian Esquire's new issue's ad was taken down by the company that owns the ad space before the contract was over. The reason - because the cover advertised main article: "Why gays and ballerinas join United Russia(Putin's party, new KPSS)" The link is to the article, where Esquire interviews celebrities and pretty much all of them admit that they joined it because it's the main ruling party and they they don't influence and don't think they have a chance of influence any politics in the country.

 

Also, the video ad of this issue was refused by every major TV channel.

Edited April 5, 2010 by vault_overseer

[obyknven]

I'd like to point out that there are plenty of young Russians, who are not as daftly oblivious to the facts as our prime example here.

 

And to Obyknven, are you a member of Nashi or Molodaya Gvardia, by any chance? If not, you should join, they need gullible people.

No. Don't want.

[obyknven]

Esquire

this is just propaganda

Edited April 5, 2010 by obyknven

[vault_overseer]

I'd like to point out that there are plenty of young Russians, who are not as daftly oblivious to the facts as our prime example here.

 

And to Obyknven, are you a member of Nashi or Molodaya Gvardia, by any chance? If not, you should join, they need gullible people.

No. Don't want.

 

Well, you do come off as one, so why not join? You can make a difference in fighting the good fight against those evil CIA aggressors! As you grow up, you could graduate to United Russia and write new laws limiting rights of mass media and creating loopholes for stealing ridiculous loads of cash.

[Zoraptor]

Oh, of course. Russia had a perfectly legitimate right to update the prices of their gas to Ukrainie, and to try and put a stop to the gas theft. But in my eyes that was a convenient excuse to flex their muscle a bit, and show that one of the pillars of their newfound international influence is energy dependency in the West.

It really isn't in Russia's best interests to cut off the gas supply, certainly not just to make a point. It costs them a lot of money they can ill afford to miss out on, annoys their customers and, worst, encourages them to find alternatives ultimately reducing the effectiveness of their 'energy muscle', future income and goodwill. It's a bit like having nukes really, everyone knows that they can nuke if they want to but making sure everyone knows this by actually nuking someone is... counter productive. Unfortunately, if they wanted to deal with Ukraine's syphoning/ refusal to pay there wasn't really any alternative to cutting it off. I wouldn't say that I don't believe there was any muscle flexing involved (especially in the timing though for all we know that had to do with when the contract ran out)- it is Putin after all, and he does like flexing his muscles, and obviously I'm not privy to the details of any negotiations- but it's hardly the cut and dry it's often made out to be.

 

 

 

As a general point, if you (collective you, not singling anyone out) are actually interested in trying to convince someone that they are being brainwashed by their government it is best to latch onto something genuine rather than something where the reporting in the western media has been obviously biased- otherwise you're actually doing the opposite and convincing them that, yes, everything the west says is rubbish with any truth being purely coincidental.

[Volourn]

Oby likes to people see die. he's even bragging about it on behalf of Iran. LMAO

[Humodour]

I'd like to point out that there are plenty of young Russians, who are not as daftly oblivious to the facts as our prime example here.

 

That is comforting.

[obyknven]

Oby likes to people see die. he's even bragging about it on behalf of Iran. LMAO

I don't like it. But the common soldiers paid with their lives for aggressive geopolitics U.S. In any case, it is the U.S. going to invade Iran and kill civilians, and not vice versa.

[Se_]

Gosh! Sometimes I'm ashamed of my countrymen . But then sometimes I'm ashamed of humanity.

[Walsingham]

Gosh! Sometimes I'm ashamed of my countrymen . But then sometimes I'm ashamed of humanity.

 

Indeed. I dreamed last night that I was in Redhill, Surrey.

[Volourn]

"poor American pilots! don't fly over Iran >:3"

 

Your sarcasm here shows otherwise, Oby. Your comment is full of malice and hate. It's obvious to everyone that you are a bigot who hates others because they aren't Russian. It says A LOT when even your fellow Russians won't back you up.

 

It's okay to be proud of your country, it's another thing to be blind to its faults and pretend any fault they may have is not their fault or is delusional lies told by 'enemies'.

[Zoraptor]

I dunno, if Iranian warplanes tried overflying the US I can't imagine anything other than 'what were they expecting' once they got shot down, and that would hardly be a sentiment full of 'malice and hate', just the basic reality that if you overfly someone else's country in warplanes without their express permission they have every right to try and shoot you down.

 

Please commence with the verisimilitudes and desist with the falsities.

[213374U]

Pretty much. Ever heard of that Gary Powers guy? He was a bit of a problem for the US, back in the day, because U-2 flights couldn't be easily justified. This isn't much different... except it's Iran. The sarcasm ain't cool, though.

 

Where did that pic come from, anyway?

[mantous]

I would love to see a world in peace. Why this should be happened? There must be wrong, unfair, and arrogant. Save our world.

[Volourn]

"I dunno, if Iranian warplanes tried overflying the US I can't imagine anything other than 'what were they expecting' once they got shot down, and that would hardly be a sentiment full of 'malice and hate', just the basic reality that if you overfly someone else's country in warplanes without their express permission they have every right to try and shoot you down."

 

NumbersU gets it. It's not about what he said it's how you said. I mean duh, you fly over another country espciailly one you oppose bad things to happen. But, you can say in that hateful way. Espciially when you throw all the other bigoted and hateful statements he's put out in this thread. 8shrug*

[obyknven]

I not evil! I just open your eyes to reality. example here:

http://forums.obsidian.net/index.php?showt...p;#entry1024386

[obyknven]

Where did that pic come from, anyway?

F-117 shot down in serbia

http://www.hopeisnotaplan.com/2005/10/down...bia_1999_1.html

[Walsingham]

Hang on, your location reads 'Soviet Russia'. I think we may have some rather startling news for you...

[Moose]

Or perhaps we have some startling news for you.

 

Einstein's assassination etc.

[Walsingham]

Or perhaps we have some startling news for you.

 

Oh man. I've gone down the wrong trouser leg again, haven't I? Stupid cheap Chinese time machine.