Vegetarian

[Walsingham]

I got annoyed by the notion that I couldn't go a day wityhout eating meat so I breakfasted on fruit and had some steamed veg with a homemade butter and mustard and paprika dressing for dinner. I'm now fermenting and gassing up like a barrage balloon. It's quite alarming.

[Gorth]

Fight global warming, eat a cow.

[Rosbjerg]

It's just your body adjusting to something it's not use to, I get like that if I eat too much meat..

[I want teh kotor 3]

Fight global warming, eat a cow.

 

This.

[Walsingham]

It's partly economic and partly to counter some excess yesterday. We went to a Chinese all you can eat and as usual on such occasions far too much was ordered and then forced down even after we stopped enjoying it. Most of it was terrible, except for the Ban Bang Chicken, and prawns wrapped in bacon. Everything else had so much salt I felt like a medical experiment.

[Enoch]

It's just your body adjusting to something it's not use to, I get like that if I eat too much meat..

This is true. Human digestive systems get used to a particular blend of protiens, lipids, carbs, fiber, etc. Sudden shifts in the mix of inputs can make for a bumpy transition.

[Humodour]

I got annoyed by the notion that I couldn't go a day wityhout eating meat so I breakfasted on fruit and had some steamed veg with a homemade butter and mustard and paprika dressing for dinner. I'm now fermenting and gassing up like a barrage balloon. It's quite alarming.

 

Something tells me your gastric system is broken.

 

Proper vegetarian diets are some of the best around - the only one that's healthier for you is a vegetarian diet with fish (I don't know the term for it). When I say best I refer to cancer risk, heart disease risk, lifespan, etc. Much of the goodness comes from the seed-based foods: nuts, lentils, cereals, fruit, though obviously the greens are extremely important too.

 

Vegan diets tend to go backwards in health benefits, being not much better than a typical red meat-eater's diet (i.e. one of the unhealthiest around) at least in terms of life-span.

[Gorth]

Vegans are gastronomic fundamentalists. With about as much common sense too. Cows are vegans, humans are omnivores. I'm all for fighting your genetic information, but not to the point of blind stupidity.

[213374U]

Right, right. Life is a chronic disease with a very bad prognosis. The solution is obviously becoming a diet nazi...

[Killian Kalthorne]

*Invoking Goodwin's Law*

 

You know, Hitler was a vegetarian.

 

[Enoch]

It's just your body adjusting to something it's not use to, I get like that if I eat too much meat..

This is true. Human digestive systems get used to a particular blend of protiens, lipids, carbs, fiber, etc. Sudden shifts in the mix of inputs can make for a bumpy transition.

I should clarify-- I didn't mean to imply that one particular of foods blend was optimal or correct. Only that one's body gets used to what a person feeds it, and shifting eating practices quickly often makes for transitional difficulties. This is true even when shifting to a diet that is generally more healthy.

[Walsingham]

I agree that part of being human is to fight being human, but putting diesel in a petrol cars is just excessive. We need an aray of proteins to be successful, and - assuming my highschool biology teacher was correct - you cannot manufacture some of those proteins internally from pure veg. Plus there are many oils and so forth which come best from oily fish etc. I am not going to be a vegetarian for three reasons:

 

1. The good things I do outwiegh the harm I do by eating sheep, cows, bivalves etc

2. The bad things I do dwarf the harm done by eating sheep, cows, bivalves etc

3. I have canines that are 1.5 times the national average in size. They are also sharp enough to cut my tongue on as I eat. A retrotgrade evolutionary trait, but one I prize in its rarity and implications.

 

Four reasons

 

4. MOST IMPORTANTLY, the best diet is one which makes you happy or at least unhappy. Being stressed and unhappy are far higher killers than booze or fat or cholesterol. My normal diet doesn't just taste delicious it tastes bloody marvellous. It puts a spring in my step and fire in my unmentionables.

 

 

I feel it would be peculiar and even grotesque to allow my general morality to be defined by a childish squeamishness towards eating flesh. And before anyone asks I have hunted and killed my own food. If anything it makes me more comfortable knowing exactly how limited animals are.

[Humodour]

We need an aray of proteins to be successful, and - assuming my highschool biology teacher was correct - you cannot manufacture some of those proteins internally from pure veg.

 

You're wrong where it is important: while humans cannot synthesis 8 of the 20 amino acids we need to form proteins, we can get all 8 of those amino acids from plant sources. Lentils and rice is an example of the full amino acid complement. You don't even need to complement amino acids when choosing foods because your body keeps a short-term supply of them all, so unless you only eat a single type of food for weeks on end you're not going to ever run into problems.

 

Plus there are many oils and so forth which come best from oily fish etc.

 

Only one, actually (but it's a pretty important one): Omega 3. You can get it from many plant sources but I concede it is more difficult. I take flaxseed capsules every day for this purpose (the only vitamin supplement I DO take).

 

I am not going to be a vegetarian for three reasons

 

Nobody asked you to be.

 

1. The good things I do outwiegh the harm I do by eating sheep, cows, bivalves etc

 

This logic is extremely troubling to me. Consider applying it to some other ethical dilemma like, to be extreme, cannibalism.

 

2. The bad things I do dwarf the harm done by eating sheep, cows, bivalves etc

 

Now you sound like a serial killer.

 

3. I have canines that are 1.5 times the national average in size. They are also sharp enough to cut my tongue on as I eat. A retrotgrade evolutionary trait, but one I prize in its rarity and implications.

 

When you die I am going to make tiny blades out of them.

 

4. MOST IMPORTANTLY, the best diet is one which makes you happy or at least unhappy. Being stressed and unhappy are far higher killers than booze or fat or cholesterol. My normal diet doesn't just taste delicious it tastes bloody marvellous. It puts a spring in my step and fire in my unmentionables.

 

Well, it sure helps not to be stressed, but you're rather strongly exaggerating the benefits oh being happy compared to a good diet.

 

I feel it would be peculiar and even grotesque to allow my general morality to be defined by a childish squeamishness towards eating flesh. And before anyone asks I have hunted and killed my own food. If anything it makes me more comfortable knowing exactly how limited animals are.

 

Rather belittling. It's usually nothing like a childish squeamishness and more like a carefully thought out philosophical and ethical stance.

[Enoch]

Tremendomeatatarianism

 

The tremendomeatatarian refuses to eat meat simply because it is what his parents did, or because it is convenient, or because he lacks willpower. The tremendomeatatarian respects the fact that his food came from a living being, which died to provide him with dinner, and which may have suffered or be rare and overfished. Or perhaps it

[Humodour]

Tremendomeatatarianism

 

The tremendomeatatarian refuses to eat meat simply because it is what his parents did, or because it is convenient, or because he lacks willpower. The tremendomeatatarian respects the fact that his food came from a living being, which died to provide him with dinner, and which may have suffered or be rare and overfished. Or perhaps it

[Walsingham]

Sorry Krez. I've noticed I've been much more of an annoying t*** since I fethed up my back.

 

The only thing is most veggies are insufferably superior about their decision, and I get defensive. As if not eating meat excuses all the other comissions and omissions.

[Beast]

What's wrong with not being able to go the day without eating any meat? Meat good for ya!

Edited March 15, 2010 by Beast

[213374U]

Well, it sure helps not to be stressed, but you're rather strongly exaggerating the benefits oh being happy compared to a good diet.

[...]

 

Rather belittling. It's usually nothing like a childish squeamishness and more like a carefully thought out philosophical and ethical stance.

While I understand your ethical reasons for being a veg, what I don't understand are your reasons for painting red meat as inherently unhealthy. Any diet based solely on one kind of food can't be very healthy... but that doesn't mean that food is bad by itself.

 

I mean, if you are so convinced of the advantages of your lifestyle, why misrepresent the alternatives?

[Rosbjerg]

The only thing is most veggies are insufferably superior about their decision, and I get defensive. As if not eating meat excuses all the other comissions and omissions.

 

Same with some people who buy purely organic, I actually had someone tell me I was evil because I didn't buy organic milk..

 

It's not like that for the majority though, like in everything else it's simply the dimwits who are the loudest.

[Humodour]

Well, it sure helps not to be stressed, but you're rather strongly exaggerating the benefits oh being happy compared to a good diet.

[...]

 

Rather belittling. It's usually nothing like a childish squeamishness and more like a carefully thought out philosophical and ethical stance.

While I understand your ethical reasons for being a veg, what I don't understand are your reasons for painting red meat as inherently unhealthy. Any diet based solely on one kind of food can't be very healthy... but that doesn't mean that food is bad by itself.

 

I mean, if you are so convinced of the advantages of your lifestyle, why misrepresent the alternatives?

 

Red meat is reasonably bad for you in the sense that nutritionally the alternatives are superior (and I'm conceding that includes some other forms of meat here), while having far fewer (if any) of the downsides. The optimal healthy amount is roughly a maximum of a fist-sized amount once every two days. Given that the majority of red meat eaters consume far more than this quantity (i.e. unhealthy amounts), I think it's reasonable to portray red-meat diets as unhealthy.

 

So I guess in summary, no, I am not misrepresenting anything.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...9032301626.html

http://www.csiro.au/resources/The-facts-on...g-red-meat.html

[Humodour]

Sorry Krez. I've noticed I've been much more of an annoying t*** since I fethed up my back.

 

Just more British than usual.

 

The only thing is most veggies are insufferably superior about their decision, and I get defensive. As if not eating meat excuses all the other comissions and omissions.

 

That's not been my experience. Most vegetarians I know (which admittedly is only half a dozen or so) prefer not to even mention it, because it's annoying having to justify ourselves every time someone realises we don't eat meat, and then ensues the typical jokes and whatnot.

 

On that note, I normally wouldn't participate in a thread like this since it typically just invites scorn, but I guess I felt some kind of compulsion to explain things from the other side of the fence.

[213374U]

Red meat is reasonably bad for you in the sense that nutritionally the alternatives are superior (and I'm conceding that includes some other forms of meat here), while having far fewer (if any) of the downsides.

Which is false, and I'm going by the links you provided:

 

Lean red meat is not only a good source of protein and energy, but also has benefits in avoiding heart disease, however, consumption of animal fat should be reduced overall. [...]

 

Work at CSIRO has also shown that lean red meat (which has had the outer fat removed) is effective in lowering cholesterol. It is not the meat, but the visible fat of meat, that is the cause of concern.

 

The problem lies with processed meats and saturated fats. So, go with lean meat.

 

 

The optimal healthy amount is roughly a maximum of a fist-sized amount once every two days. Given that the majority of red meat eaters consume far more than this quantity (i.e. unhealthy amounts), I think it's reasonable to portray red-meat diets as unhealthy.

That's about as fair as reducing a vegetarian diet to soybean and lentils.

 

The "optimal healthy amount" varies wildly, if we are talking about lean meat. I'm on a strength gain diet, and not being very fond of supplements, I need all the natural protein I can get -- >100g per day. So, my "optimal healthy amount" can be more than what you suggest, as long as I'm not eating red meat to the exclusion of other protein sources. I also consume white meat, fish, seeds and plenty of vegetables and fruit. And I'm both more fit and healthier than some health nazis I know. Oh, almost forgot. I'm also much less stressed about this...

 

 

On that note, I normally wouldn't participate in a thread like this since it typically just invites scorn, but I guess I felt some kind of compulsion to explain things from the other side of the fence.

We're just talking man. Nobody is flinging poo (yet). Live and let live, as far as I'm concerned... Edited March 16, 2010 by 213374U

[Walsingham]

I think it's only sporting to point out that the majority of meat I do eat is vegetarian meat. With that in mind could I ask you to perhaps supplement your lentils with more beer, saltbush grass, and rosemary?

[I want teh kotor 3]

vegetarian meat

 

?

[213374U]

It's made out of people.