Nightshape Posted October 18, 2009 Author Share Posted October 18, 2009 (edited) Thankfully nobody of any importance thinks like you, else we'd be looking at a bunch of very dead IP's. Edit: And more dead development studio's. Yeah, it'd be a tragedy if Vegas were never made for sure, hehe. In that case (and most of them I'd say) the IP's better off dead than twisted. If the IP is making money, then twist it, games are a business, and if changing an IP leads to more sales then it's a good move. I actually didn't mind Vegas at all, so what if it wasn't as hardcore as previous rainbow six games, I certainly WASN'T playing those. Edited October 18, 2009 by Nightshape I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Without successful sequels and spin-offs, it's unlikely that many developers would even be able to pitch their own IP's. Would we have AP without KotOR 2 and NWN2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted October 18, 2009 Author Share Posted October 18, 2009 It would be nice to see some more new IPs instead of the increasing serialization that's going on now. EA has definately be making attempts to bring some new IP's to life. 2008 saw a couple of big ones, new IP's actually have a smaller return on investment, so each new IP is a risk, strong IP development isn't easy, cheap, and viable in large numbers. I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 (edited) It would be nice to see some more new IPs instead of the increasing serialization that's going on now. Not likely for AAA titles though. Serialization is natural in a hit-driven, billion-dollar business where sequels generally get better. We're rather lucky these years as BioWare is moving from licensed IPs to original IPs. Gaming will become even duller after BioWare finishes the transition and begins to fill its pipelines with Mass Effect 3 and Dragon Age II (yeah it's my bet Bioware will use Roman numeral for DA!) I didn't say it was going to happen. If the IP is making money, then twist it, games are a business, and if changing an IP leads to more sales then it's a good move. I actually didn't mind Vegas at all, so what if it wasn't as hardcore as previous rainbow six games, I certainly WASN'T playing those. "I didn't like it so I don't care." It's nice that you started a "discussion" and are pretty much throwing your "opinion" around like it's the only one. Edited October 18, 2009 by Purkake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Not sure what the profitability of the game's design matters to my opinion of it, I'm not seeing any of that money. I've accepted that it'll happen and will continue to, just don't believe that it should. It did matter to me for Vegas and GR, for example, because I enjoyed the whole "one shot, one kill" nature of it in SP and MP. But anyway, we just disagree. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted October 18, 2009 Author Share Posted October 18, 2009 (edited) If the IP is making money, then twist it, games are a business, and if changing an IP leads to more sales then it's a good move. I actually didn't mind Vegas at all, so what if it wasn't as hardcore as previous rainbow six games, I certainly WASN'T playing those. "I didn't like it so I don't care." It's nice that you started a "discussion" and are pretty much throwing your "opinion" around like it's the only one. Except I can't see the other viewpoint anymore, if it's not valid for me it isn't, I can't change that. Plus I'm pretty certain I made my opinion clear. I can't see WHY it's wrong to twist an IP, I can't see it for the tree's. If I wasn't playing earlier rainbow six games could it be that it didn't appeal to me? Perhaps the cost of developing a more simulation like game began to outstrip sales, and to save the IP, and peoples jobs they twisted the IP. I'm speculating, but I don't see why it is a problem, if someone can tell me why, I will listen, so far I'm just hearing a subjective "I don't like it", so I responded with "I don't care". Edited October 18, 2009 by Nightshape I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 I'm not even disagreeing with your points, I just hate extremists on both ends of the spectrum. It's not as clearly cut as you make it seem. If you have made up your mind on something, there's no room left for discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share Posted October 19, 2009 I'm not even disagreeing with your points, I just hate extremists on both ends of the spectrum. It's not as clearly cut as you make it seem. If you have made up your mind on something, there's no room left for discussion. I respect it's a problem for some folk, I'm working on why... For me it's a done deal, its a business decision. For fans its an issue, just trying to touch base a little. I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) Not everyone can or wants to separate their own emotional attachment from companies' business decisions. Not everyone is 100% rational. Also, as I said, it's not as black and white as that. You can make a game for a small dedicated community and still make a profit as shown by all the hardcore wargames, it's just a matter of adjusting the budget and your expectations. Do I want a God of War-style Planescape: Torment 2? No. Would I cry myself to sleep every night if some made it? No. Edited October 19, 2009 by Purkake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) Pft, crying yourself to sleep. That would call for Molotov ****tails and pitchforks. Edited October 19, 2009 by Malcador Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share Posted October 19, 2009 Not everyone can or wants to separate their own emotional attachment from companies' business decisions. Not everyone is 100% rational. Also, as I said, it's not as black and white as that. You can make a game for a small dedicated community and still make a profit as shown by all the hardcore wargames, it's just a matter of adjusting the budget and your expectations. Do I want a God of War-style Planescape: Torment 2? No. Would I cry myself to sleep every night if some made it? No. Half the problem is decreasing the budget, I think Risen is probably the best effort made from a low budget title, that I have seen in a long time. I'd hate to even begin to guess the budget, but it's probably still a sizeable chunk. "Do I want a God of War-style Planescape: Torment 2?" I think we can agree it'd sell better than the original I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share Posted October 19, 2009 Pft, crying yourself to sleep. That would call for Molotov ****tails and pitchforks. So this is the type of emotional attachment that was being talked about. I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Pft, crying yourself to sleep. That would call for Molotov ****tails and pitchforks. So this is the type of emotional attachment that was being talked about. So you're puzzled about why people have emtional attachments to games they've played and enjoyed? Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Obviously game development has made a soulless automation out of him. Now he's trying to understand these weird irrational beings that call themselves "humans". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 (edited) So this is the type of emotional attachment that was being talked about. That was a joke. Jeez, man. Edited October 19, 2009 by Malcador Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share Posted October 19, 2009 Obviously game development has made a soulless automation out of him. Now he's trying to understand these weird irrational beings that call themselves "humans". I was just a bit lost, and needed to be reminded of some nice old fan truths. I know it sounds weird, but ya know... I've sat there before and had to go, "I'm too close to know if this is good anymore". This has reminded me of something that Mr Josh posted once, many moons ago, not the same kind of topic, but certainly touched on elements of what I am experience'in now. p.s. This forum keeps me grounded and in touch with the man on the street, regardless of my occasional rants, I care really, I'm not a "soulless automation", really honest. I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshape Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share Posted October 19, 2009 So this is the type of emotional attachment that was being talked about. That was a joke. Jeez, man. Likewise. I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.Down and out on the Solomani RimNow the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Obviously game development has made a soulless automation out of him. Now he's trying to understand these weird irrational beings that call themselves "humans". I was just a bit lost, and needed to be reminded of some nice old fan truths. I know it sounds weird, but ya know... I've sat there before and had to go, "I'm too close to know if this is good anymore". This has reminded me of something that Mr Josh posted once, many moons ago, not the same kind of topic, but certainly touched on elements of what I am experience'in now. p.s. This forum keeps me grounded and in touch with the man on the street, regardless of my occasional rants, I care really, I'm not a "soulless automation", really honest. Geez, I was (mostly) kidding. What you're experiencing is probably your soul slowly draining away as you are being incorporated into the corporate environment. Soon there will be no free will, no though, only a an empty code-writing husk. still kidding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 I think what he is experiencing is the vested interest in a game's profit vs say me, who has no interest in such at all. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Nothing wrong with being a soulless code-writer. It's what I aspire to! Anyway, sorry that I missed your joke, just seemed that you'd actually take my comments at their face Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 The joke is that some people can't even put their own emotions aside when trying to have a nice rational-ish discussion. "Why should companies keep making sequels exactly like the original games?" -"Because I want them to" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 The joke is that some people can't even put their own emotions aside when trying to have a nice rational-ish discussion. "Why should companies keep making sequels exactly like the original games?" -"Because I want them to" Well, I would say that generally speaking, people enjoy a particular game because it has certain features that appeal to them. When a sequel comes along that uses the same game title, they expect those features to be present in the sequel. If those features are not in the sequel then of course they are going to be sad, annoyed, upset etc and so forth, because those features are what they liked in the first place. If somebody makes Jagged Alliance 3 and drops, mines, sectors, dyanamic campains, merc stats, militia, etc and so forth, of course I'll be annoyed because those are the feautres I liked in Jagged Alliance 2. If Jag 2 hadn't had those features, I wouldn't have liked it to begin with. Developers of course are not under any requirement to adhere to feature continuity through sequels, but it shouldn't be any great mystery why gamers react the way they do when their favorite game gets a reboot or a sequel which is nothing like the game they loved to begin with. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Well, let's hope that Nightshape learned something valuable that will help him destroy the human race make better video games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 destroy the human race He is probing us for exploitable weaknesses, isn't he. Someday, in the near future, I am going to open a game box and find some sort of bio-mehcanical pod inside that will attach itself to my face and force Myst 7 into my brain. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Destroying the human race with bad adventure games? Only a cold and calculating machine could think of something so horrible and humorless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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