Star Wars the Old Republic

[LaKeRmAn 024]

This new MMO crap isnt KOTOR!!!!!!!! We want KOTOR 3 and we should do something about it. I am very disappointed with the new game that Bio-Ware has come out with. They completed destroyed the two best characters in Star Wars since Luke and Darth Vader...Revan and Bastila. Please reply and help to let Obsidian know that they still have a chance to make KOTOR 3 and that they should rightfully take away the fame of Bio-Ware!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank You.

[alanschu]

BioWare destroyed Revan and Bastila?

[Anonymous]

Yet another frustrated fan...while I agree that I do not like what Bioware has done (basically botched the franchise) I don't quite understand what your trying to achieve here. I've been there though, you've just gotta move on and hope that one day a KotOR III is made, TOR won't be cancelled...it'll make lots of money I'm sure and I guess if it does it should shine some light on a possible KotOR III. Hopefully handled by Obsidian.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/index.php?showtopic=52908

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I honestly don't believe this game will do anything else than crash and burn.

[alanschu]

Why do you say that? Just a hunch?

 

 

They better deliver on their promises of somehow merging story with an MMO or I agree, they'll be in big trouble.

[Denny3650]

Unfortunately like we have seen in the past LucasArts only cares about making money and doesn't actually listen or care about the people, if they would actually listen to the community they would have made the game the ppl have asked for the most from LucasArts (kotor 3 is indeed the most asked about sequel from lucasarts games), instead they make an MMO which no one asked for in the first place. but of course they did it because they know that ones it is done they will get millions of dollars a month for at least 5 years if not more.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Denny3650

[alanschu]

instead they make an MMO which no one asked for in the first place.

 

I bet there was as many people asking for an MMO in the KOTOR timeline as there were people asking for KOTOR before KOTOR was announced.

 

 

Would people have preferred it if Lucasarts made another Jedi Knight game instead of KOTOR?

 

 

Who knows, maybe SWTOR will be even better than KOTOR was.

[LaKeRmAn 024]

i still think that the majority of us were expecting an PRG like the last two KOTOR games. I mean thats what KOTOR was all about. Also KOTOR 2 pretty much set up the third game. for example... Kreia would keep telling the exile that reven would return and that the true sith would come to battle the republic. Also Mandalore/Canderous told the exile that revan would return and that he needed to be ready, thats why he was recruiting mandalorians across the galaxy. Those are just a few examples but KOTOR 2 opened so many doors to the third game that they cant be left open. I hope that obsidian has something left up there sleeve.

[Anonymous]

i still think that the majority of us were expecting an PRG like the last two KOTOR games. I mean thats what KOTOR was all about. Also KOTOR 2 pretty much set up the third game. for example... Kreia would keep telling the exile that reven would return and that the true sith would come to battle the republic. Also Mandalore/Canderous told the exile that revan would return and that he needed to be ready, thats why he was recruiting mandalorians across the galaxy. Those are just a few examples but KOTOR 2 opened so many doors to the third game that they cant be left open. I hope that obsidian has something left up there sleeve.

 

Doesn't matter, they need Lucas' blessing to make it...and odds are they probably won't get it. As has been clearly documented they have one directive at Lucas- To make as much money as possible fueling George's empire, that's what he wants.

 

And trust me the majority of people who want to see TOR are PC fanboys who started this whole thought train in the first place, now every kid is jumping on board. The diehard consoler audience would crush in the fans department, but I digress not everyone fan is like this...you are correct though, what the majority wants is a KotOR III.

 

Artistic creation is once again sacrificed for more money to be made. An ugly trend that keeps on rolling...

[Darth Trayus]

i still think that the majority of us were expecting an PRG like the last two KOTOR games. I mean thats what KOTOR was all about. Also KOTOR 2 pretty much set up the third game. for example... Kreia would keep telling the exile that reven would return and that the true sith would come to battle the republic. Also Mandalore/Canderous told the exile that revan would return and that he needed to be ready, thats why he was recruiting mandalorians across the galaxy. Those are just a few examples but KOTOR 2 opened so many doors to the third game that they cant be left open. I hope that obsidian has something left up there sleeve.

 

 

I doubt obsidian would have anything more to do with the franchise though I do agree that the second game pretty much built up towards an epic finale. We finally understand why Revan went "fell" and now we have two Jedi Knights that saved the galaxy. As the MMO takes place three hundred years later, the entire story line that built up the characters in the previous games crashed and burned. My opinion: make an MMO from the beginning and not after two kick *** games. Why bother with building such complex characters only to leave their stories untold and unfinished?

[alanschu]

i still think that the majority of us were expecting an PRG like the last two KOTOR games. I mean thats what KOTOR was all about. Also KOTOR 2 pretty much set up the third game. for example... Kreia would keep telling the exile that reven would return and that the true sith would come to battle the republic. Also Mandalore/Canderous told the exile that revan would return and that he needed to be ready, thats why he was recruiting mandalorians across the galaxy. Those are just a few examples but KOTOR 2 opened so many doors to the third game that they cant be left open. I hope that obsidian has something left up there sleeve.

 

Doesn't matter, they need Lucas' blessing to make it...and odds are they probably won't get it. As has been clearly documented they have one directive at Lucas- To make as much money as possible fueling George's empire, that's what he wants.

 

It's been no secret that BioWare has wanted to make an MMO for a long time. It's hardly Lucas going "**** KOTOR 3, lets make an MMO because it's where all the bling bling is!"

 

And trust me the majority of people who want to see TOR are PC fanboys who started this whole thought train in the first place, now every kid is jumping on board. The diehard consoler audience would crush in the fans department, but I digress not everyone fan is like this...you are correct though, what the majority wants is a KotOR III.

 

Artistic creation is once again sacrificed for more money to be made. An ugly trend that keeps on rolling...

 

Please don't speak on behalf of others. I have seen no indication that the "majority" of anyone wants to see a KOTOR III. I know a fair bit of people that were pissed at KOTOR 2 due to bugs and how incomplete the ending of the game was. I wouldn't be surprised if KOTOR 2 didn't sell nearly as well as the first KOTOR.

 

The fact that significant time has passed since KOTOR 2, has significant impact on whether or not KOTOR 3 is even on people's minds at all now. I'd suspect that rather than the majority hoping for KOTOR 3, the majority has just moved on.

[LaKeRmAn 024]

Please don't speak on behalf of others. I have seen no indication that the "majority" of anyone wants to see a KOTOR III. I know a fair bit of people that were pissed at KOTOR 2 due to bugs and how incomplete the ending of the game was. I wouldn't be surprised if KOTOR 2 didn't sell nearly as well as the first KOTOR.

 

 

Um....if you ask every KOTOR fan what they wouldve perfered i bet the "majority" would of said they wanted a RPG KOTOR 3. Plus KOTOR 2 and Obsidian were rushed to make deadline. Thats why the game has alot of deleted content. If Lucas Arts would of given Obsidian more time the game would of been as good or better than the first.

[alanschu]

You can't absolve Obsidian of all the blame for KOTOR 2. We don't know the details of what happened precisely, so it's not really fair to either company to say who is or is not responsible.

 

 

Um....if you ask every KOTOR fan what they wouldve perfered i bet the "majority" would of said they wanted a RPG KOTOR 3.

 

Easy to say. Would it still be the case now? Lets make it more nebulous, if you were to ask every KOTOR fan if they had to choose between SWTOR or nothing, would the majority still choose nothing?

 

 

KOTOR 2 came out four and half years ago. I stand my by assertion that, by this time, the majority of KOTOR fans have moved on. Would they like a KOTOR 3? Sure, who wouldn't? But you'll probably find just as many that are interested in SWTOR as there are those that feel as though they've been cheated out of KOTOR 3.

 

It helps to put things in perspective. KOTOR 3 was canceled a long time ago. Most signs indicate that it was canceled to allow for Force Unleashed.

 

 

BioWare has wanted to make an MMO, and were able to procure the license to make one in the SW Universe. I've seen no inclination that BioWare was interested in making a KOTOR 3.

[kingofsquid]

Yeah, well Bioware can kiss my butt! Look me in the....um.....avatar and say that a fully developed Kotor 3 would not sell well!

[Anonymous]

You can't absolve Obsidian of all the blame for KOTOR 2. We don't know the details of what happened precisely, so it's not really fair to either company to say who is or is not responsible.

 

 

Um....if you ask every KOTOR fan what they wouldve perfered i bet the "majority" would of said they wanted a RPG KOTOR 3.

 

Easy to say. Would it still be the case now? Lets make it more nebulous, if you were to ask every KOTOR fan if they had to choose between SWTOR or nothing, would the majority still choose nothing?

 

 

KOTOR 2 came out four and half years ago. I stand my by assertion that, by this time, the majority of KOTOR fans have moved on. Would they like a KOTOR 3? Sure, who wouldn't? But you'll probably find just as many that are interested in SWTOR as there are those that feel as though they've been cheated out of KOTOR 3.

 

It helps to put things in perspective. KOTOR 3 was canceled a long time ago. Most signs indicate that it was canceled to allow for Force Unleashed.

 

 

BioWare has wanted to make an MMO, and were able to procure the license to make one in the SW Universe. I've seen no inclination that BioWare was interested in making a KOTOR 3.

 

And here he is back again dicing up peoples valid arguements trying to make himself sound important...we've been down this road, I won't be going there with you again. I made my points and you made yours...we're never going to agree. If you'd seen the figures you'd know the KotOR franchise was much more of a success with consolers. The ratio of people who want a KotOR III compared to the TOR audience is laughable, bandwaggoners and kids even out the margin today but not fans who grew up with KotOR and made the franchise into what it is today (yeah that's right, we paid our money, grew to love the storied universe, we want a sequel). Not an experimental business enterprise by Lucas and Bioware lol.

 

Allow me to maintain my point as well that this is Lucas' fault to begin with, pushing KotOR II out the door then having ample time to setup a KotOR III with Obsidian but chose not to ignoring what the fans wanted, KotOR III. And don't say that its not because we all know its exactly what the majority wanted, sure TSL was full of holes but it was still a good game with (in my opinion) a better underlined story that sold very well...the holes make the game what it unfortunetly is, rather unfinished but Lucas bears at the very least half of the blame for this, they were at fault just as much as Obsidian for the finished product. TSL was a good game, it could've very well been great. Obsidian wasn't even given a chance to finish what they started and clean everything up...

 

And I say its business because who's name is on LucasArts? That's right George Lucas. If you knew anything about the man you'd know he keeps his enterprises afloat to continue to fund his empire...for future development of CGI for his movies and such endevours. Its apparently very, very expensive to make film with such technology. George gives directives to the people who run these departments, that is "make as much as you can with SW"...trust me the people on the top of the chain could careless about the storied development of KotOR, just the $$$ it produces.

 

At the very least now (for the hope of a KotOR III) I think TOR will be a success, at least initially then if it makes enough to satisfy Lucas there's a few directions it will go in (in my opinion)...

 

1- (The more likely scenario) TOR comes out to lots of success, they will have delivered on all fronts (yeah I think Bioware can do it). Lucas will begin talks of a sequel and I'm sure in the process mull over a KotOR III...nevertheless it will be turned down for the sequel to TOR. The End.

 

2- TOR does well enough to satisfy, then Lucas will finally buckle to fan demand and talk to Obsidian. There is a God and KotOR III will be put into its (by the time we get there) 5, 6 year hiatus production.

 

3- TOR fails, doesn't sell enough units and draw enough attention to warrant a sequel. KotOR is dead for awhile until years later we have a pulse, (as I've pointed out) Lucas doesn't have many SW franchises that've sold as well as the series...fans still want a sequel. Lucas and Obsidian finally come together and discuss KotOR III. The game is made...finally, Amen.

 

 

Bottom line- No matter how you slice it, "Bioware wanted to make an MMO"...blah, blah, blah. Its greed, its what its all masked in...the desire for Lucas and Bioware to make as much money as possible not listening or answering the pertinent question of- KotOR III.

 

So go ahead and fire back, I'm ready but we both know its a pointless debate, you think your way and I think mine...

Edited August 19, 2009 by Anonymous

[LaKeRmAn 024]

Easy to say. Would it still be the case now? Lets make it more nebulous, if you were to ask every KOTOR fan if they had to choose between SWTOR or nothing, would the majority still choose nothing?

 

True...but ppl have been waiting for 5 years for the conclusion of a great RPG game. What im trying to say that this MMO is not what many fans were expecting, dont tell me you werent surprised either. Obsidian can still do it. They have that chance. Would you have liked to learn what happened to Revan? Just to play as him one more time? Its what many ppl were expecting or am i not right?

[LaKeRmAn 024]

Allow me to maintain my point as well that this is Lucas' fault to begin with, pushing KotOR II out the door then having ample time to setup a KotOR III with Obsidian but chose not to ignoring what the fans wanted, KotOR III. And don't say that its not because we all know its exactly what the majority wanted, sure TSL was full of holes but it was still a good game with (in my opinion) a better underlined story that sold very well...the holes make the game what it unfortunetly is, rather unfinished but Lucas bears at the very least half of the blame for this, they were at fault just as much as Obsidian for the finished product. TSL was a good game, it could've very well been great. Obsidian wasn't even given a chance to finish what they started and clean everything up...

 

Bottom line- No matter how you slice it, "Bioware wanted to make an MMO"...blah, blah, blah. Its greed, its what its all masked in...the desire for Lucas and Bioware to make as much money as possible not listening or answering the pertinent question of- KotOR III.

 

FINALLY SOMEONE WHO GETS IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANKS BUDDY!!

[kingofsquid]

Allow me to maintain my point as well that this is Lucas' fault to begin with, pushing KotOR II out the door then having ample time to setup a KotOR III with Obsidian but chose not to ignoring what the fans wanted, KotOR III. And don't say that its not because we all know its exactly what the majority wanted, sure TSL was full of holes but it was still a good game with (in my opinion) a better underlined story that sold very well...the holes make the game what it unfortunetly is, rather unfinished but Lucas bears at the very least half of the blame for this, they were at fault just as much as Obsidian for the finished product. TSL was a good game, it could've very well been great. Obsidian wasn't even given a chance to finish what they started and clean everything up...

 

Bottom line- No matter how you slice it, "Bioware wanted to make an MMO"...blah, blah, blah. Its greed, its what its all masked in...the desire for Lucas and Bioware to make as much money as possible not listening or answering the pertinent question of- KotOR III.

 

FINALLY SOMEONE WHO GETS IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANKS BUDDY!!

 

[kingofsquid]

Y'know, I ain't biased against mmos, actually i am incredibly eager for wow:WoW thread It's just the murdering of KOTOR that I hate.

[alanschu]

Yeah, well Bioware can kiss my butt! Look me in the....um.....avatar and say that a fully developed Kotor 3 would not sell well!

 

 

It's kind of moot though if BioWare is looking to do something different, isn't it?

 

If BioWare were looking to make a new KOTOR, I'm sure it'd be done. But they were looking to make an MMO (something they hadn't done before).

[alanschu]

Bottom line- No matter how you slice it, "Bioware wanted to make an MMO"...blah, blah, blah. Its greed, its what its all masked in...the desire for Lucas and Bioware to make as much money as possible not listening or answering the pertinent question of- KotOR III.

 

 

If it's just greed, and KOTOR 3 is such a sure thing, why wasn't it made?

[Gorth]

Bottom line- No matter how you slice it, "Bioware wanted to make an MMO"...blah, blah, blah. Its greed, its what its all masked in...the desire for Lucas and Bioware to make as much money as possible not listening or answering the pertinent question of- KotOR III.

 

 

If it's just greed, and KOTOR 3 is such a sure thing, why wasn't it made?

Out of spite!

 

"Greed" is the prime mover in management. Short term and long term profits... what benefits the company owners the most? That is why, when somebody seems to discover a new profitable business model, others wants piece of the cake too. DLC, Monthly Subscriptions, etc. seems to be where the belief in the future is at the moment. If I have 500 dollars to invest, do I invest it where I get 750 dollars back or where I get 1000 dollars back? If the 750 dollars are a quick ROI and the 1000 dollars aren't, do I go for the 750 to reduce my liabilities and the need for financing? So many questions and no answers as simple as "I would like to see, therefore it must be the best option". Alanschu knows this, as does most people who work in "project based" businesses.

[Anonymous]

Bottom line- No matter how you slice it, "Bioware wanted to make an MMO"...blah, blah, blah. Its greed, its what its all masked in...the desire for Lucas and Bioware to make as much money as possible not listening or answering the pertinent question of- KotOR III.

 

 

If it's just greed, and KOTOR 3 is such a sure thing, why wasn't it made?

 

Because Lucas knew there's more money to be made with the MMO audience, syncronizing things Bioware wanted to make one...there you have it. People paying monthly rates and so on offers a bigger payoff in the end. And as we know KotOR II was very messy, Lucas probably didn't want to take the gamble on a third game with Obsidian...but (in my opinion) they played the waiting game for far too long.

 

And yeah I get it, as I pointed out its a business. Of course they're going to do what they feel will make the most for them, that is TOR MMO.

 

I just sucks to swallow for the normal every-day-gamer

[Gorth]

I just sucks to swallow for the normal every-day-gamer

Which is really the core of the issue, isn't it?

 

I am not a MMO player and would have loved to play a continuation of the story, but the realist in me arrived at the conclusion, at the very latest when it became known that LA had laid off their in-house Kotor3 staff, that it was unlikely to ever happen.

 

It is Ok to want something badly, but life can be cruel sometimes and we don't always get what we want, even if it doesn't seem to make much sense from the information available.

[alanschu]

Well, for all intents and purposes, the rumour I heard was that KOTOR 3 was canceled for The Force Unleashed.