post-colonialism

[Walsingham]

Walsingham: In the restricted sense that I use it, it's how people write in postcolonial studies. Postcolonial studies encompass social studies on former colonies; studies of their literature; cultural changes; and last but not least on how people talk / write - thus think - about colonialism, imperialism, countries that were involved in it, people that are from africa, asia (s-e-asia is my focus), south america; european, us-american, japanese ... hybris and much more. You could google for postcolonialism, orientalism (Said), subalterns (Spivak), hybridity (Bhaba). It's also interesting that there is still a lot left from the colonial discourses (i.e. legitimation through race, culture, bringing freedom, true belief, etc.) that is still deeply rooted within us, even in anti-colonial writings, in children's books (-> uncle tom's cabin as an example of well-meant perpetuation of prejudices, not to mention the overtly racist stuff that's still around in many a kid's shelf) and songs, in newspapers, even in our geographical ideas! Once you get a little conscious of language, it's pretty horrid actually wink.gif Conventional metaphors are a good point to start looking, but it's a never ending field.

Ahem. What I'm doing is actually describe the current state of the discourse as found in papers / articles / books on the discourse itself, and in papers / articles / books that are part of the discourse (the former are automatically part of the latter). Spice it up down with a little background on discourse (Foucault), discourse analysis (Fairclough) and colonialism (history books), et voil

[HoonDing]

Seems to be entirely depending on the number of immigrants absorbed..

[Morgoth]

Unless the immigrants become British...

[lord of flies]

Yeah, we live in a "post-colonial era," right... I've got some oceanside property to sell in Nevada. You interested?

[Tigranes]

You could google for postcolonialism, orientalism (Said), subalterns (Spivak), hybridity (Bhaba)

 

Bhabha for hybridity, lest someone fail their googlin'. Shame be on Wals.

 

Big fan of postcolonialism, but are you wanting to discuss anything about it? The issue of indigenous or colonised(hybrid) cultures seeping back into the imperial one is further complicated by the maturity of diasporas throughout the world, now. You can mention popular examples such as the Turkish barbeques in German parks, Indian curry in Britain and the phantasmagoric cultural plane created through Bollywood (which, of course, has sustained an entire cabal of Indian scholars by itself)... but I'm a lot more interested in what will happen when these immigrant societies start to really break bread with their host cultures. Currently you have interaction and some mechanical integration (i.e. at an institutional / economic level), but I'm talking about multiple, organic points of communication opening up between, say, Japanese immigrants and the host citizens of, uh, Canada. i.e. High school / university Koreans sharing their (largely pirated) banks of Korean music, movies and funny videos with Americans; the continuing mainstream-isation of international cinema and literature; more multi-lingual and/or multi-ethnic individuals that can freely participate in various cultures' activities, and so forth. That kind of stuff might very well take shape in the next few decades (barring a true theory-come-to-life destruction of national integrity), and then we will truly begin to see 'post-colonial' hybridities... or, at least, interesting mixes in the 'North' while the 'South' languishes.

 

edit: That, most likely, made no sense unless you've (a) read up on post-colonialism and (b) possess an uncanny ability to decipher poorly written intarweb rants, but dear god I am dying of fatigue.

[samm]

You could google for postcolonialism, orientalism (Said), subalterns (Spivak), hybridity (Bhaba)

 

Bhabha for hybridity, lest someone fail their googlin'. Shame be on Wals.

Shame's all mine

 

What interests me about it currently is not the products of integration (example that is in more advanced phase than those you mentioned, maybe except Indians in GB: Italians in Switzerland, which has no "colonial element" per se, just like your example of turkish people in Germany), but rather how much of the colonial mindset of European/western superiority is still left in peoples' heads, how many ideas of "well, in the end we brought them democracy", the idea of a mystical orient, pervasive mis-representations that still today influence politics etc.

Edited June 12, 2009 by samm

[Walsingham]

I'm intrigued by the notion that Britain's curious political culture is a hybrid of Saxon bolshie-ness combined with Indian caste stability.

[Tigranes]

how many ideas of "well, in the end we brought them democracy"

 

Very much so. Democracy and freedom still occupy very specific and powerful places in our discursive formations. Zakariah (sp?)'s seminal work on illiberal democracies acutely demonstrates how we still have a tendency to pursue democracy as a goal in and of itself.

 

I'm intrigued by the notion that Britain's curious political culture is a hybrid of Saxon bolshie-ness combined with Indian caste stability.

 

Britain is (or was, till the 80s at least) very 'caste', but God knows where that came from.

[Walsingham]

Deomcracy is an enabler, not an effect in itself. Think of it as taking the handcuffs off the bodies and minds of a people.

[Tigranes]

Yet it is taken as an effect in itself in many fields. That's my point about one of the relics of colonialism.

[Walsingham]

Yet it is taken as an effect in itself in many fields. That's my point about one of the relics of colonialism.

 

I'm going to be very pompous and British and suggest that the 'crime' of the post-colonial period was to assume that the natives were perfectly capable of running themselves as effectively as we were able to.

[samm]

I'm going to be very pompous and British

Indeed you are with your sentence

Your statement is invalid on at least two levels:

 

1. Assumptions about the effectiveness of 'running themselves' before 'releasing the colony into maturity' are certainly not a main factor, this is viewing the colonial power through rose shades, an idea based on the old strategy of legitimisation that the occupants bring political and cultural improvements to the occupied. I'd say, with what little background knowledge I have gathered in the past few weeks of studying, releasing colonies is generally a process of liberation for political, monetary and military reasons (they do not generate money for free but need constant suppression, political attention, propaganda etc., and the benefits of prestige and the idea of having to possess as much 'ground' as possible, because 'ground' is the most valuable property, have worn off).

 

2. The postcolonial period is not concluded, unless you count neo-colonialism as its end. So what you say, even if it were true that this assumption was made etc., would definitely not be the crime in this period.

Edited June 15, 2009 by samm

[Walsingham]

If I'm honest I was simply being pompous and myself, not British. Most British people are reflexively apologist about the Empire.

 

1. My statement was not intended to imply that being an administered colony was great. My observation - having read detailed documents on the commission for liberating Nigeria - was that their principal failure seemed to have been to make a non-racist assumption that the only thing stopping the 'natives' running things as well as we were was US. I still say this was incorrect, but that it betrayed a greater spirit of respect than is generally accepted.

 

2. It fair to point out that post-colonial period may not be over. But when should we regard it as being over? 50 years? 60? 100?